Luis Nani | 2012/13 Performances

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OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Always thought this. His tackling in particular has improved hugely in the past 2 or 3 years. Valencia tracks back and works hard, but in terms of stopping his opponent and winning the ball back, I don't think he's as good as Nani. He's very good at timing challenges and not letting his man slip past with the ball.

I hope he doesn't leave, but it seems like it's going to happen based on his lack of involvement. quite harsh considering he was one of our best players against Madrid at home, and he got sent off for something very soft.
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I agree and have said this before on here. He, like Rio and Carrick before him, will struggle to get the praise for this because he will not rush back and tackle at first chance. He is often already there to stop the attack and guide players into non dangerous areas. He will often wait for the right time to tackle or get a foot to the ball, or just make the player infront of him play the ball back or to the sides.

He is too often judged only on the high expectations people have for his attacking play and skill, not his overall performance.

Hope he'll sign a new contract and stays with us!
 
I'm a Nani lover, and I'd much rather we lose Tony and/or Young over losing Nani.
 
If nothing else, he can always brag about having scored goal of the year in training, according to Rio:

Goal of the season was scored in training today.....in fact the best I have ever witnessed!!!!
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De gea saved ball onto the bar, I caught it on my foot,flicked it over my head&volleyed it 2 nani who chested &smashed it in on the volley!
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Hopefully Juventus' scouts were allowed to view the training session, ought to have doubled his price.
 
Nani deserves to stay even though he's had an off season. I hope he signs, I think he's best when played in the front 3 of a 433, which I'd like to see us play more.

I'd love to see:

Carrick
Kagawa Rooney
Nani Persie Welbeck​
 
ForeverUnited19 said:
Juve's system never includes wingers. Part of the front three for AC Milan is more realistic. PSG don't need any more wingers either. The most sensible thing for everyone involved is for him to sign another contract, unless we need the money and squad place.
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Nani played his very best games for us in a 4-3-3 though, with little defensive responsiblity, similar with Portugla, so it's not like he'd be limited there or anything.
 
OnlyTwoDaSilvas said:
Nani has 2 assists. Young has 3. Valencia has 4.

Nani has 3 goals. Young has 0. Valencia has 1.

No really much in it. None of them really had the season we were expecting them to have, especially as Valencia and Nani ended last season in very potent form.
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Nani - 20 games - 3 goals - 6 assists
Young - 23 games - 0 goals - 5 assists
Valencia - 36 games - 1 goal - 6 assists

Nani is clearly the more productive and has featured in less games. By his normal standards he has had a poor season granted, but he has still offered more than Young and Valenca.
 
He doesn't offer more defensively. We shipped a huge amount of goals at the start of the season while still scoring loads and in my opinion, the defensive qualities that Young/Valencia have outweigh Nani's attacking ability.
 
Goooose said:
He doesn't offer more defensively. We shipped a huge amount of goals at the start of the season while still scoring loads and in my opinion, the defensive qualities that Young/Valencia have outweigh Nani's attacking ability.
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I hate this "defensive" qualities that people always go on about. Valencia this season has been wank, both offensively and defensively. Everytime he dallies around on the ball and ends up losing possession is bad, both for our attack and defense. He may put in a shift defensively (as does Nani, in fact) but overall it is a negative contribution to the team.

In any case, attacking contribution generally outweighs defensive contributions, assuming the attacking contribution is significant - which Nani's generally is (not as much this season though).
 
Goooose said:
He doesn't offer more defensively. We shipped a huge amount of goals at the start of the season while still scoring loads and in my opinion, the defensive qualities that Young/Valencia have outweigh Nani's attacking ability.
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That is pure bull.... He is better than both of them. People, for some reason, can't see the great job he does defensively because he do not chase back after players or take the first chance at a tackle. He is smarter, and stays on his feet and makes sure he is in a correct position with regards to our pressing in midfield. He does not need to run after players, because he is often back in position and stops play and guids attacking players out in non threatening areas and often forces them to play back and across.

As a really attacking winger, he will of course sometimes be out of position, but, that is the same for everyone.

Like Rio and Carrick in their earlier days, he will get criticized because of his smarter style of defending (which is clearly better, as Louis CK would say it).
 
You've got to be a fecking moron to think Nani is better defensively than Valencia. This season they've both been shit but if you were examining them both when on form Valencia is obviously better defensively, just like Nani is obviously a better attacker.

'Smarter style of defending' :lol:
 
Why is it that only some United fans think he's this world class player? The rest of the fecking world can see that he's not that good. We needed to be more defensive at the start of the season and our choice of wingers helped with that.
 
Goooose said:
Why is it that only some United fans think he's this world class player? The rest of the fecking world can see that he's not that good. We needed to be more defensive at the start of the season and our choice of wingers helped with that.
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In fairness, most of the world didn't/don't regard Rafael, De Gea, Evans or Carrick as the top players they are...so outside perceptions can be somewhat pointless.

But me personally, in the case of Nani I definitely agree that he's nowhere near as good as people have tried to make out. He's had his moments of 1st class brilliance so let's not ridicule him too much but at the same time when you think of worldie wingers, you think of someone like Ribery who for all his cuntishness...he's been so consistent for the last 6 years you can't put a name ahead of him in terms of out and out wingers. Nani's miles away from that level, despite clearly being so immensely talented.

I feel living in Ronaldo's shadow before, during and after has really had an effect. From day one it was 'Ronaldo's twin is here, stepovers will be symmetrical on the left and right'...when Ron left, Nani was earmarked as the spark to fill the void left by Ronaldo.

He had a decent season the season after and almost became known as 'Nani...Portuguese but different to Ronaldo', and then it all went down the pooper.
 
paceme said:
You've got to be a fecking moron to think Nani is better defensively than Valencia. This season they've both been shit but if you were examining them both when on form Valencia is obviously better defensively, just like Nani is obviously a better attacker.

'Smarter style of defending' :lol:
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Not our problem that you don't get football. Probably never played it at a good level with educated coaches and quit at 16.
 
Yeah Nani isn't near Valencia or even Young defensively, who are two of the best around at covering their fullback. That being said he's actually decent himself, puts in a shift and is never a luxury player that some would have you believe. He's a hardworker, everyone in our team has to be.
 
Young doesnt do a great deal defensively actually. Nani has done less defensively than he did last season. Last season's Nani and Young at United (either season) would be similar defensively.

Valencia does the most. Usually its a bit clumsy and gives away a few too many freekicks. But then he has a match last week where he wins the ball cleanly as much as anyone on the pitch. So he can clearly do that too.
 
Might as well just sell Nani. i have always been a fan and felt SAF has never played him in the right way or the right system. So we might as well sell him rather than continue to watch him treading water and performing inconsistently here.

Very disappointing but not that surprising. We don't have a great record with continental type players. Our best successes are usually French or Scandinavian, we do alright with those players generally. From places further afield SAf seems to struggle getting the best out of them for whatever reason.

Might as well sell ando for the same reason really. 6 years, bought as youngsters presumably so we can shape their games early on, and it has to be said that it was a gamble that has never really paid off.

Might as well sell the pair of them and put the money towards Bale or wilshire. We are better off buying British, and those are the 2 best British talents around atm.
 
Ekeke said:
Young doesnt do a great deal defensively actually. Nani has done less defensively than he did last season. Last season's Nani and Young at United (either season) would be similar defensively.

Valencia does the most. Usually its a bit clumsy and gives away a few too many freekicks. But then he has a match last week where he wins the ball cleanly as much as anyone on the pitch. So he can clearly do that too.
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To win the ball is a part of the defensive work, or rather one outcome of it, and the team effort defensively (often according to game plan and tactics) is much more important.

This discussion is so simplified that it's almost not worth having, because it's borderline not connected with the matter of the defensive performances off the players we are discussing.
 
Giggsforever said:
Not our problem that you don't get football. Probably never played it at a good level with educated coaches and quit at 16.
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Mourinho didn't played neither.

You don't need to be a footballer to understand football. It's like saying you need to be an artist to understand movies. Saying to someone that you don't get football cause you probably haven't played football in a good level is childish.

Saying that, I agree that Nani is a good player defensively (and people always underrate this part of this game) but there is no way in hell that he is better than Valencia in that aspect.
 
Revan said:
Mourinho didn't played neither.

You don't need to be a footballer to understand football. It's like saying you need to be an artist to understand movies. Saying to someone that you don't get football cause you probably haven't played football in a good level is childish.

Saying that, I agree that Nani is a good player defensively (and people always underrate this part of this game) but there is no way in hell that he is better than Valencia in that aspect.
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But, he got his education from educated people that had experience in football as managers and players. Education almost always matter, unless you are some kind of revelutionary Prodigy with more understanding of the game than anyone before.

But, I agree that it's borderline childish and I was thinking that when i wrote it. A bit pretentious, and that's not me. But, the arguments lack substance and I don't know what else I could answer in a case like this.
 
Giggsforever said:
But, he got his education from educated people that had experience in football as managers and players. Education almost always matter, unless you are some kind of revelutionary Prodigy with more understanding of the game than anyone before.
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Or if you have seen thousands of fecking football games.
 
Revan said:
Or if you have seen thousands of fecking football games.
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Problem is that you will not learn what you can't understand without help and imput (but, of course you will learn alot over time). You have to be explained and thought as well.
 
Giggsforever said:
But, he got his education from educated people that had experience in football as managers and players. Education almost always matter, unless you are some kind of revelutionary Prodigy with more understanding of the game than anyone before.
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Understanding is relative and subjective. Believing you have a better understanding than somebody else doesn't necessarily mean that you do. Only that you think you do. Who you have learned from only makes your education a little more credible, it doesn't automatically make your insights any more valid. Any footballing situation is based on a personal interpretation which is an entirely subjective view.

When you watch MOTD, do you feel obliged to discard your own interpretations of events because they may differ to Alan Shearer's? :eek:

Of course not, yet he has played at a far higher level than you and has received a far higher standard of footballing education from a wide variety of professional people who have huge experience as both players and coaches.

We live in the age of experts, where we have what is possible and impossible, acceptable and unacceptable spoon fed from some unknown PHd whose interpretation is gospel because of his level of education. One thing i love about football is that there is still so much scope for people to form their own opinions, rightly or wrongly. We are not dependent - as in so many other areas of society - upon the views and interpretations of an 'expert' for providing our sole understanding of any particular event or occurence.
 
Giggsforever said:
Problem is that you will not learn what you can't understand without help and imput (but, of course you will learn alot over time). You have to be explained and thought as well.
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It's not string theory FFS. You don't need to be an Einstein of football to say that Valencia is better defensively than Nani.

Agree to disagree anyway, but it looked to me very arrogant and childish saying that you don't understand football cause you haven't played it, or you can't learn something you don't understand.

Revan out!
 
I agree with the last two posts, and take that into account. I'm sorry if I have come across as disrespectful and arrogant towards fellow Caftards.

That said, I think Nani does the best defensive work out of of our winger, even if he is often involved deeper into the attacking zone than Young and Valencia.
 
Giggsforever said:
Not our problem that you don't get football. Probably never played it at a good level with educated coaches and quit at 16.
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:lol: Stop being a baby. I didn't say Nani was bad defensively but he is not better than Valencia. I mean Valencia has played at bloody right back getting close to ten times and rarely looked out of sorts, could you imagine Nani playing in defense?
 
some first class revisionism going on here.

A lot of people seem to forget Nani on top form is the best winger in the country

He's had a bad season, but has had long spells injured, people seem to forget that small aspect.
 
Sandikan said:
some first class revisionism going on here.

A lot of people seem to forget Nani on top form is the best winger in the country

He's had a bad season, but has had long spells injured, people seem to forget that small aspect.
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I think highly of Nani when he's on form but since his best spells, Bale has improved drastically and Hazard has arrived.
 
Sandikan said:
some first class revisionism going on here.

A lot of people seem to forget Nani on top form is the best winger in the country

He's had a bad season, but has had long spells injured, people seem to forget that small aspect.
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A lot of people are only remembering his good games as well. When he's not on top form he can be anonymous.
 
Goooose said:
A lot of people are only remembering his good games as well. When he's not on top form he can be anonymous.
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But, he still bring a good general play and link up that is far superior to the other wingers we have, so a bad game for him is not as bad as a bad game for Valencia and Young. He can be more frustrating, but that is because we expect so much more from him and that his bad decision making comes after dribbling past a few defenders and have set us up for a more dangerous situation than the others. They thend to let us down at the first obstacle with a faild dribbling or cross.

As for you paceme, I have apologized to you with the last post on the last page. I came across a bit rude, and I'm sorry. There should be no problem with different views.
 
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