GayThrush Sorewood
Luis Nani | 2011/12 Performances
- Thread starter Kelvin
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That's like asking what would would Nasri or Silva give on the wing that Adam Johnson doesn't really. Theres a complete difference in style of player really...Hazard averages about 20 more passes per 90 minutes for one and crosses far less.
You're really not with it today are you.
I've seen both many times
- No Kagawa is not a winger, he'd play more central.
- Hazard has played mostly off the left side of an attacking three
- Nani tends to play on our left
- Valencia is first choice right winger
So if Kagawa and Hazard joined then Kagawa would play through the middle and Hazard I likely to play of the left, when both start, thus Nani gets nudged from the side.
Not rocket science.
Furthermore, if we started with those two and needed to shore things up in a game I'd wager than SAF would bring on Young ahead of Nani. So unless Nani is starting in place of Hazard or Valencia then he misses out. That is the point!
It may be long term, but he's played in that position less than wide right or left for Lille. He comes inside. He isn't a winger as such, no more than Nasri, but hat's where Nasri has played from and so will Hazard, if we sign Kagawa too, or the Welbeck Rooney combo is used.
Because Hazard might be better than Nani and Young.
Kagawa would certainly play central yes.
Valencia isn't going to start every game. Hazard/Kagawa won't start every single game. What is the problem? If you look at the injuries to Nani and Young this season then surely some more strength in that position is a good thing? Also bar Valencia every single player up front could interchange and we would become an even more fluid attacking unit.
I could see Valencia being asked to play right back with Nani, Hazard and Kagawa as a fluid three behind Rooney, IF we were to sign both. Valencia is the only one who sticks to the flank as far as our wing options are concerned, the others are best when they float.
Further, Nani is vastly under rated on here, his place shouldn't be in danger, he's our second best player (attacking wise at least) behind Rooney.
Further, Nani is vastly under rated on here, his place shouldn't be in danger, he's our second best player (attacking wise at least) behind Rooney.
I don't see that he's enough of an upgrade on Nani to be worth the effort. Young doesn't really come into the thinking because when everyone is fit he's a back-up player for me.
Eh, I think he gets underrated and overrated on equal measure, but that's how sports fans have always worked, some overly critical, some overly appreciative, it's nothing new. Though both him and Carrick seem to get more underrated on a wider basis, but considering most people are hugely anti-United, also not that surprising.
Nani is a step behind the likes of Messi and Ronaldo. The reason for it, is not limited to talent (he's a great player but not at the level of Ronaldo etc) but also because he lacks consistency. I reckon that having someone like Hazard to compete with will give Nani (and all others) a kick in the backside. Complacency is a risk in any team.
I just don't get why some people on here seem so keen to ease him out to make room for Hazard. Even if Hazard were better than Nani, and so far that remains to be seen, Nani would still be our second best winger so it makes absolutely no sense for him to be the one to miss out. For Valencia I'd understand, there isn't much between him and Nani, but Nani is a much superior player to Young.
Im being simplistic here but here it goes
(4-2-3-1)
Hazard = replacement for Giggs
Nani = replacement for Ronaldo
Valencia = replacement for Park
Kagawa = old Scholes replacement (ie in Tevez role)
That's fair enough. Don't get me wrong, I'd be happy to see Hazard and Kagawa both come to United. They aren't necessarily my first choice for summer signings, but both look like very good players who would improve us, but for me, not at the expense of Nani.
Imagine the drool on most people's mouths if there were talks about us signing Nani. After all, few us of follow another team like we follow United, and thus we would watch the Youtube clips and listen to what the media say. If Nani had played in the Bundesliga or the Spanish League, he would be praised as a massive talent and we would all hail him as the next great thing. Now we have him and we criticise him for not being too consistent, but he did contribute to more goals last season than Valencia!
United players are massively underrated by the media due to the club's focus on team mentality; even Nani said that he was told to play for the team and thus ease down on the trickery. The fact that Silva has received so much praise this season, for instance, is beyond me as he has been more inconsistent than Nani!
United players are massively underrated by the media due to the club's focus on team mentality; even Nani said that he was told to play for the team and thus ease down on the trickery. The fact that Silva has received so much praise this season, for instance, is beyond me as he has been more inconsistent than Nani!
Not sure this is true, both Nani & Valencia have kept the other out the team in that position over the past few years.
Nailed it Rossa.
These days the border between a first teamer and a reserve had become blurred. Tactics and form dictate whose going to play and whose ending up in the reserves. I mean I can only see 4 traditional type of first teamers at United (Evra, Rooney, Vidic and De Gea) and the latter 3 are covered by players who are too good to be considered as mere reserves (Welbeck/Chicarito, Jones/Smalling/Evans and Lindegaard)
This.
The idea that Valencia is first choice is just so wrong, as SAF showed us against Citeh, we don't have a first choice winger.
You said yourself that Nani is better than Young. Why the hell would you bring Young on ahead of him? Where's the logic?
We're about to offer him a new 130k a week contract, which would make him our 2nd highest paid player.
He's definitely not behind Valencia in the pecking order, neither have been fully fit at the same stage for ages so we don't know who is ahead of who.
Again you admit Kagawa is a central player, but in your original post you said the fact that he would be coming to the club would have an impact on how much Nani plays. Where's the logic in that?
If Hazard has played mostly on the left side of a front THREE then how does that suddenly mean he'll become the first choice winger in a midfield FOUR despite the fact that he's only 21 and isn't as good a player as Nani is yet?
Now then, to some of your points in the Hazard thread.
You're comparing him to the 2nd best player in the world and one of the most lethal and consistent footballers to ever grace the game. Is that a fair way to measure his attacking contributions?
Ok, so you'd have him behind Young in the pecking order despite the fact that Young has MORE average games than Nani does and contributes less goals?
Where to even begin? Nani was involved in more goals than any other player on our team last season, he's also our 3rd highest goalscorer, AHEAD of Young this season despite his injuries, yet Young is a greater goal threat than him, even though Nani pretty much scores every one-on-one he gets, and a lot of people on here seem to agree that he's one of our best finishers. And his delivery is better? Nani can put crosses and through balls into the box that Young could only dream of.
Why is Valencia a certain starter? Nani pushed him out of the team in 2010, and was first choice on the right last season until he picked up the injury against Liverpool. He played more games than any other player in our team last season. And again, other than that they've both basically never been fit at the same time.
Not with it? You're clueless. Nobody on here agrees with you.
And I'm pretty sure everybody here would say that SAF got it badly wrong against City. Valencia should have started that match, as should Welbeck.
I just don't think you play Hazard, Kagawa and Nani together unless your central midfield pairing is the dogs bollocks. Ours hasn't been.
SAF also like to go with things tha have worked previously and he's always quick to point out tha Valencia played a massive part in Rooney's goal scoring 3 seasons ago. It's the same thinking that saw him play Nani against Cliche vs City.
The City game was a joke, Rooney was just as bad as Nani but nobody gave him stick, and neither of them got the ball much because our midfield was constantly overrun and they were left isolated. He was also doubled, sometimes tripled up on by the City players. What SAF should've done is put Nani on the left and Valencia on the right.
Your point?
My point is undisputed, it shows you he aint "first choice", none of our wingers are.
I wont delve on Kagawa and Hazard cause they are not our players yet. However all our wingers have their set of strengths and weaknesses. Nani is highly technically gifted but is weak defensively and can be too ambitious. Valencia is the best defensively, he's the typical EPL winger, ie fast, powerful and can deliver a great cross but can be a bit predictable. Young is somewhere in the middle. They are all at the same level and none of them can say he's first teamer.
Definitely.
But because SAF got it wrong Redfighter has now decided that Valencia IS first choice, just that SAF was wrong.
fecking bizarre logic this boy has.
No they're not, Valencia and Nani are way better than Young
Top post.
This is like when I hear that all sports are on the same level......
I'd like to give Young the benefit of doubt. Its his first season after all.
He's turning 27 soon, it's not like he has much room to improve. He's a fine signing as a squad player but he is clearly not at their level and never will be, especially Nani, who can still improve and become even better than he currently is.
Fair enough, but Nani is on a different level to Young, that is quite clear...
With the exception of the diving I thought Young did pretty well but I still prefer Nani and Valencia on either flank. I think partly because Nani seems less one footed than Young when playing from the left.
Redfighter just upped the ante with a well timed jedi mind trick.
I think that he has yet to settle down at OT. Young was a much better player at Villa then he was with us during last season.
What difference does that make? Does he not already have the benefit of say, his entire footballing career so far, in which he's never looked close to Nani's talent, who is also younger than him?
I've read it all today. I like Young, a lot, but god damn how is he being compared to Nani in any capacity?
But that's the thing, even at Villa he never looked like he had the ability to reach Nani's level.
Technically Nani is the by far our best winger. However he lacks consistency. If Young can produce the same level of football he did with Aston Villa at a consistent level then he stands a chance of competing for a first team place. However, if Nani start producing the stuff week in week out then there's no one in the world who can put him on the bench apart from Messi and Ronaldo.
As someone mentioned in another post, you could say every player in the world lacks consistency, i mean what is consistent these days? Messi and Ronaldo consistent? Nobody can match them for it, absolutely nobody. Nani missed a good few games this season, and in the end still notched up the 2nd most assists and 3rd most goals in our team and this was a supposed underwhelming season from him. It's not his fault he got injured is it? What about the season before? he was our best player up until not long before Carragher injured him. Short memories.
Anyone who calls Nani inconsistent knows nothing about football.
I wish Messi had been consistent against the Chavs...
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