Luis Nani | 2010/11 Performances

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Have to wonder if SAF got it spot on because Chelsea's MO is the same - target our best players and try hurt them. Look at Rooney in this game, maybe not hurt long term but, to kick them about so they are are focused on getting kicked than playing.

Nani when he came back from the shin injury (cnut Carragher), he was playing very tentatively and I think Chelsea would have exploited that.

I was shocked to see him not starting but, that is why SAF is SAF - fecker knows what he is doing.
 
I'd say SAF didnt want us going too gung ho. Evras been struggling so it helped to have Park ahead of him, while Parks workrate and involvement in the centre of the park meant we were competitive in midfield.

He'll start the home game and the majority of matches for the rest of the season. While Valencia was out we couldnt afford to rest him at all, at least now we have the option to.
 
I fancy hes carrying a bit of an injury myself, nothing major but enough for Sir alex keep him back and use when and if required, i read on here he missed training the day before portugals friendly last week not sure if that was confirmed but seemed he was carrying something although he came on for the last 15 minutes of that game.

The decision in not bringing him on at HT when 2-0 down at the weekend has convinced me somethings up, no way do we not bring on Nani at that stage in a crucial run in for the title league march if hes 100% in my view, our best attacking player of the season left on the bench whilst we're 2-0 down with 45 to play? nah not having that.

Again tonight, he would have started if fully fit imo, he started this very fixture last month wide left so why not tonight? it clearly wasn't tactical seeing as we happily brought him on instead of bringing on a defender in place of Rafa.

Hope whatever his slight problem is its gone soon, we need him.
 
Allforone said:
I fancy hes carrying a bit of an injury myself, nothing major but enough for Sir alez keep him back and use when and if required, i read on here he missed training the day before portugals friendly last week not sure if that was confirmed but seemed he was carrying something although he came on for the last 15 minutes of that game.

The decision in not bringing him on at HT when 2-0 down at the weekend has convinced me somethings up, no way do we not bring on Nani at that stage in a crucial run in for the title league march if hes 100% in my view, our best attacking player of the season left on the bench whilst we're 2-0 down with 45 to play? nah not having that.

Again tonight, he would have started if fit imo, he started this very fixture last month wide left so why not tonight? clearly wasn't tactical seeing as we happily brought him on instead of bringing on a defender in place of Rafa.

Hope whatever his slight problem is its gone soon, we need him.
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Which defender would that be?

There's every possibility the decision was tactical.
 
I love Nani, always been a fan through the years, but no way is he better than Rooney.

Has he had a better season? Definitely, but Rooney has shown in the last few months that he is one of the worlds greatest players and this team needs him more than we need Nani.

Nani is still a great winger though, at least in the top 5 in the world, if not higher.

I hope Valencia hasn't overtaken him in the pecking order. I can only assume it's because he hasn't looked too fit of late. I expect him to start at the weekend anyway.
 
That's what I thought, doesn't look 100% fit. I doubt it has anything to do with competition for places, considering Nani is clearly better then any of our wingers.
 
Hectic said:
That's what I thought, doesn't look 100% fit. I doubt it has anything to do with competition for places, considering Nani is clearly better then any of our wingers.
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I don't think this is as clear-cut as you think.

All our wingers have different qualities. Nani is the most penetrative and likely to score/create a goal. Park is the most disciplined and hard-working. Valencia has all these qualities (albeit not to the same extent as either Nani or Park) and is a beast, physically.

It's horses for courses and I think it's very possible that Fergie thought the qualities that Valencia and Park bring the table were more important for a game last night.
 
I can only assume he was rushed back too quickly from the Carragher injury and it's hitting him a bit now. Hopefully he'll play against Fulham at the weekend and then be in good shape for the home tie. I think he needs to play in it, he'd wreak havoc.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Valencia has all these qualities
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Can't really agree with that, don't think he comes anywhere close to Nani on a goal scoring level or even a crossing level. I'm sure people will dispute that but Nani can pick out crosses that Valencia would never be able to do. Valencia is just great at hogging the touchline and getting a yard of space to whip in a good cross for someone to get on the end of, but Nani can pick out a man perfectly when he gets it right. He just doesn't cross it as much.

I'd agree that Nani is comfortably our best winger. He's comfortably the Premierships best winger right now, and his workrate and tracking back has been very good this year when it has needed to be as well.
 
Mayb SAF thought it necessary to have two hard workers on the wings given we had giggs/carrick in central midfield and two up front? Valencia has also been immense since returning. Bet nani starts the home leg tho.
 
cina said:
Can't really agree with that, don't think he comes anywhere close to Nani on a goal scoring level or even a crossing level. I'm sure people will dispute that but Nani can pick out crosses that Valencia would never be able to do. Valencia is just great at hogging the touchline and getting a yard of space to whip in a good cross for someone to get on the end of, but Nani can pick out a man perfectly when he gets it right. He just doesn't cross it as much.
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Check out the edit (added something in brackets)

I'd agree that Nani is comfortably our best winger. He's comfortably the Premierships best winger right now, and his workrate and tracking back has been very good this year when it has needed to be as well.
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Best going forward, definitely. But Valencia and Park both have qualities he does not. As such, they were probably picked on merit. Horses for courses.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Check out the edit (added something in brackets)



Best going forward, definitely. But Valencia and Park both have qualities he does not. As such, they were probably picked on merit. Horses for courses.
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More tactics than merit I would say. On merit and performances this season, Nani would be picked ahead of both but tactically Park and Valencia give you abit more in work-rate and discipline and we did not lack creative or match winners in the eleven picked yesterday at all with the eleven picked.
 
Ole'sbodyguard said:
More tactics than merit I would say. On merit and performances this season, Nani would be picked ahead of both but tactically Park and Valencia give you abit more in work-rate and discipline and we did not lack creative or match winners in the eleven picked yesterday at all with the eleven picked.
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I meant merit as in they were picked because of the qualities they possess as footballers, rather than because Nani was carrying an injury and Fergie was forced to pick them ahead of him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Best going forward, definitely. But Valencia and Park both have qualities he does not. As such, they were probably picked on merit. Horses for courses.
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Defensively they do yeah, but not as much as some people seem to think. Nani used to be horrible defensively but he's improved big time this year and his tracking back has been excellent, not far off Valencia but obviously a bit far off Park.

It's been a fantastic return from Valencia, something I hadn't expected, but it's a bit disappointing if he is getting preference over Nani, instead of it being that Nani is still not fully fit.
 
cina said:
Defensively they do yeah, but not as much as some people seem to think. Nani used to be horrible defensively but he's improved big time this year and his tracking back has been excellent, not far off Valencia but obviously a bit far off Park.

It's been a fantastic return from Valencia, something I hadn't expected, but it's a bit disappointing if he is getting preference over Nani, instead of it being that Nani is still not fully fit.
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Nani's a lot better defensively than he was, to the extent that it's no longer a significant weakness in his game when he's playing on the wing.

You're kidding yourself if you think he's close to being as good as Valencia though. Put it this way. Would we have defended as well last night with him at right back as we did with Valencia?
 
Hectic said:
That's what I thought, doesn't look 100% fit. I doubt it has anything to do with competition for places, considering Nani is clearly better then any of our wingers.
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Yet I'd back SAF picking Valencia over him in most games...

Anyway, I'd say he must be carrying an injury.
 
cina said:
Defensively they do yeah, but not as much as some people seem to think. Nani used to be horrible defensively but he's improved big time this year and his tracking back has been excellent, not far off Valencia but obviously a bit far off Park.

It's been a fantastic return from Valencia, something I hadn't expected, but it's a bit disappointing if he is getting preference over Nani, instead of it being that Nani is still not fully fit.
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That's way too generous. Even last night when he would clearly have been told to protect Valencia he didn't do much of a job. He's gotten better but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's close to either Valencia or Park in terms of ability to that job.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
You're kidding yourself if you think he's close to being as good as Valencia though. Put it this way. Would we have defended as well last night with him at right back as we did with Valencia?
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Fair point there, 'close to' was being generous. But I don't think Valencia's better defensive qualities would warrant him starting on the wing ahead of Nani, especially against a pretty narrow Chelsea team who lacked any real width.

Drogba was their biggest threat on the wings which says a lot.
 
To be fair, your boy Aaron predicted this after Valencia's return and I along with plenty of others ripped him for it. Now it may prove that Nani is simply nursing an injury, only the coming weeks will show us that, but I am certainly ready to make a massive apology to Aaron if he proves to be correct.
 
I don't see it personally, I think Nani is one of the first names on the sheet, and had he been fully fit, would have featured from the start yesterday. Yes, our other wingers do offer a range of other things that Nani isn't as good at, Park and Valencia are better defensively - Giggs can play a more central role too, but I see him as our most consistent threat and with the work he's done on his defensive duties this and last season, it's no longer an issue playing him and thinking about cover.

I'm not looking for people to agree with me here, I don't really care if people think Rooney is a better attacking player or not, it's a good problem to have, not sure why you are mad to think Nani is better, it's not mad either way. That said, I do think Nani will go on to be the better player as in the last two seasons he has shown an unbelievable level of consistency, that I'm not so sure Rooney can achieve. I think in the next two seasons he will really cement his quality on the team and go on to be our best player.
 
Sharky7 said:
To be fair, your boy Aaron predicted this after Valencia's return and I along with plenty of others ripped him for it. Now it may prove that Nani is simply nursing an injury, only the coming weeks will show us that, but I am certainly ready to make a massive apology to Aaron if he proves to be correct.
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I'm not sure last nights team selection implies Fergie rates Valencia over Nani any more than Nani's run in the team ahead of Valencia last season means the converse is true. Injury or no injury to Nani, you can definitely see why Fergie might prefer a pair of wingers who are comfortable tucking inside and helping out in the central midfield battle. Defensive qualities aside, Park and Nani have both played a lot of games in central midfield, something Nani has never done once in his career AFAIK.

We won't often come up against a midfield as strong as Chelsea's, though, so I'm sure Nani will get the nod in most games between now and the end of the season.

Strongly disagree with Hectic's assertion that Nani is a better player than Rooney, mind you. He's definitely not at the moment and I don't think he will be in the future. Time will tell though.
 
I think it's a combination of fitness plus tactics. Chelsea we know will try to kick our players, they certainly tried to kick him off the park in the league game (Ivanovic did) and with the hesitancy he has shown, last night probably would have not been a good thing. That's where tactics come in - Valencia being the beast he is and showing no signs of fear since he has returned, was probably deemed more suitable for the encounter.

At the same token, that leaves Nani, fresh for when Chelsea were tiring, someone that can really torment a more tired defense and also later in the game, the ref is probably going to be a lot less lenient in letting things go, so less likely to get kicked about.

I'd say when fit - him and Valencia are probably our defactor starters for wingers with either Park/Giggs now filling a central role if all are 100% fit.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm not sure last nights team selection implies Fergie rates Valencia over Nani any more than Nani's run in the team ahead of Valencia last season means the converse is true. Injury or no injury to Nani, you can definitely see why Fergie might prefer a pair of wingers who are comfortable tucking inside and helping out in the central midfield battle.

We won't often come up against a midfield as strong as Chelsea's, though, so I'm sure Nani will get the nod in most games between now and the end of the season.
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I didn't imply that it did. I think Nani is probably nursing an injury as I can't imagine that he's not on of the first names on the teamsheet.

But.... if he was dropped for tactical reasons then Aaron has been proved to be correct. He predicted that Nani would spend a lot more time on the bench from now to the end of the season.
 
Hectic said:
I don't see it personally, I think Nani is one of the first names on the sheet, and had he been fully fit, would have featured from the start yesterday. Yes, our other wingers do offer a range of other things that Nani isn't as good at, Park and Valencia are better defensively - Giggs can play a more central role too, but I see him as our most consistent threat and with the work he's done on his defensive duties this and last season, it's no longer an issue playing him and thinking about cover.

I'm not looking for people to agree with me here, I don't really care if people think Rooney is a better attacking player or not, it's a good problem to have, not sure why you are mad to think Nani is better, it's not mad either way. That said, I do think Nani will go on to be the better player as in the last two seasons he has shown an unbelievable level of consistency, that I'm not so sure Rooney can achieve. I think in the next two seasons he will really cement his quality on the team and go on to be our best player.
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I wouldn't agree with that. The Christmas before last he couldn't even get into the first team squad and plenty of people felt the writing was on the wall. He'd been poor that season. It was only when he got back in that we saw a really, really top player emerge, for all of his obvious promise. He's had a very consistent year but still probably not as consistent as Rooney for most of last season. That will come with time though, I think.

He's showing a lot of progress and, IMHO, the main reason is down to belief. Both in himself and from others. Not the brashness that we saw from him at times at the club but the security of knowing that he can and will produce when we need him. I think he'll perform just as well on the left because expectations have been raised both by himself and of him, and he looks to be repsonding brilliantly to that.
 
Sharky7 said:
I didn't imply that it did. I think Nani is probably nursing an injury as I can't imagine that he's not on of the first names on the teamsheet.

But.... if he was dropped for tactical reasons then Aaron has been proved to be correct. He predicted that Nani would spend a lot more time on the bench from now to the end of the season.
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No but that's what Aaron thinks, which is the reason he would give for Valencia getting the nod last night. I think the injury explanation is unlikely as its' a month now since Carragher crocked him and Nani started against Marseille and Bolton (both home games) before sitting out our last two fixtures (both aways) .

It's possible he's being dropped for a slight lack of form (as he hasn't been great this last month) but the most likely explanation IMO is tactical. It seems to be working too, as our away performances have picked up dramatically since Valencia's return.
 
Brophs said:
I wouldn't agree with that. The Christmas before last he couldn't even get into the first team squad and plenty of people felt the writing was on the wall. He'd been poor that season. It was only when he got back in that we saw a really, really top player emerge, for all of his obvious promise. He's had a very consistent year but still probably not as consistent as Rooney for most of last season. That will come with time though, I think.

He's showing a lot of progress and, IMHO, the main reason is down to belief. Both in himself and from others. Not the brashness that we saw from him at times at the club but the security of knowing that he can and will produce when we need him. I think he'll perform just as well on the left because expectations have been raised both by himself and of him, and he looks to be repsonding brilliantly to that.
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I thought the writing on the wall stuff was absolute nonsense, couldn't believe that people weren't willing to give him a bit more time. I thought Rooney last season wasn't as devestating as people made out, I'm not sure it was even his best season. Obviously end product wise, he was completely insane, buckets loads of goals for fun, but he still had a barron spell that season at the start. I would say Nani has been more consistent then Rooney of last season, without doubt. Rooney was more effective last season because he bagged crazy amounts of goals, but game to game consistency wasn't there to this level. Rooney that season was the devestating, clinical finisher, his movement was superb, but he didn't have the influence on games like Nani does now. It's not a criticism, not at all, as that wasn't his role, he was played further up front to score goals, and he achieved that to near perfection. The main difference being Rooney that season was the finish to our attack, Nani this season has a bigger influence in the entire process.

I think Rooney had a better season with what he achieved, but he wasn't as consistent as Nani has been this season, if that makes any sense. The Christmas before last is immaterial, as I know he wasn't playing to the standards he does now, which is why I didn't mention it. For me, the progress and improvement he has shown in two seasons is unreal, which is why I have futher hopes and expectations then on say Rooney, who has been here longer and I feel won't expand on past seasons as much as Nani has with his respective ones - mostly because Rooney has already had several excellent seasons with us, whereas Nani hasn't and is now showing his capabilities.
 
cina said:
Fair point there, 'close to' was being generous. But I don't think Valencia's better defensive qualities would warrant him starting on the wing ahead of Nani, especially against a pretty narrow Chelsea team who lacked any real width.

Drogba was their biggest threat on the wings which says a lot.
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It says that Valencia and Park did a very good job on their fullbacks, the players they generally rely on to provide width, surely?

Seemed apparent to me that once Valencia was moved back Ashley Cole had a much easier time of it going forward last night and grew in influence. Part of that was due to Chelsea's need to get a goal growing as the game went on but I'd say

Nani puts in a fair bit of effort into tracking back and he will put his foot in but he's never shown the discipline, awareness and overall defensive quality that Valencia's given us right from when we signed him. Very few wingers have, IMO.

If we'd went with Nani and Valencia on the wings I think he would've been a bit exposed on the left side. Bosingwa was a real threat at times and that was with Park there. If we had Fletcher available we may have trusted him to give enough protection to the wings as it's one of his strengths but with Giggs in the middle it would have been pretty risky.

Still, Nani's our best winger and there will be very few games that he'll be dropped for tactical reasons.
 
Brophs said:
That's way too generous. Even last night when he would clearly have been told to protect Valencia he didn't do much of a job. He's gotten better but I wouldn't go so far as to say he's close to either Valencia or Park in terms of ability to that job.
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Nani normally tries hard defensively, but he's not a natural at knowing what player to pick up and which positions to take.

Edit: Brwned basically said the same thing above.
 
Great half. Two more assists. What's that now- 28 goals he has either assisted or scored this season? And he's not nominated for PFA player of the year? :lol: what a joke
 
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