Luckhurst: United prepared to move for a holding midfielder in January

NinjaZombie said:
I'm not his biggest fan but I reckon a properly coached Fred could do a great job for a team that wants to press. 2 of our goals in Villareal came from his efforts. It's his all around gameplay that is the issue. Maybe a half competent manager could coach out his flaws.
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Fred gets a lot of hate, but I've maintained that he'd be really effective in an actual organized system. During Ole ball, we'd be seeing a two man midfield that was constantly disconnected from attack, especially with Bruno given a free pass to push up. That was always going to fail long term once teams figure it out. We'd feck up in the final third due to lack of creativity, which is a result of no system, and then the opposing team waltzes right through midfield with a couple of passes.

With a disconnected front line, no real system of play, and a shaky defensive line (a story of its own), how can any midfield two succeed in that? And without the conditions for success, and a team struggling with confidence, silly mistakes are inevitable. I think that's what we've been seeing with players like Fred, McTominay, and Maguire. This isn't me claiming they're world class or anything, but that their bone headed mistakes don't come from nowhere.

Fred is a workhorse, has shown his effectiveness for Brazil, and has a good attitude—not much of a sulker. Proper coaching and system can make a good use of that. Ole ball could not.
 
I will be surprised if we do not try to buy at least one midfielder in January. Ralf has just admitted that he is happy with the firepower up top, so I can see him going for a mobile young-ish midfielder to bring that balance, which would allow us to keep the ball as far from our box as possible.
 
Water Melon said:
I will be surprised if we do not try to buy at least one midfielder in January. Ralf has just admitted that he is happy with the firepower up top, so I can see him going for a mobile young-ish midfielder to bring that balance, which would allow us to keep the ball as far from our box as possible.
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If we do buy a midfielder he has to be 100% good enough to be a regular starter & will improve the team otherwise we might just as well wait until the summer, I don't want another DVDB situation where he is hardly ever picked with McFred constantly getting the nod ahead of this new midfielder.
 
There’s no way Rangnick leaves January without a CM.
 
Water Melon said:
I will be surprised if we do not try to buy at least one midfielder in January. Ralf has just admitted that he is happy with the firepower up top, so I can see him going for a mobile young-ish midfielder to bring that balance, which would allow us to keep the ball as far from our box as possible.
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Yeah a CDM who can bring us some much needed balance is definitely the top priority, would then go attacking RB (still much for Dalot to do) and Edi replacement should be after that.
 
roseguy64 said:
We would also need to sell a player or two. Not easy in January.
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I think Rangnick will get Lingard/Pogba/Mata/Matic out in January to make room for one midfield signing and get another one in the summer.

Rangnick usually has an entire XI going both in and out, so I don't believe this notion that he won't show the board his transfer skills at all in Jan.
 
I can see a shift in our transfer strategy from the safe but expensive signings strategy utilised by Ole to a more risk taking/young talent/bargain hunting one used by Ralphy. Thus 40m that we might raise by selling the likes of Jesse and Matic might get us a long way

I also wonder if Ralphy would solve or at least add a band aid to our CM as it is. Gegen pressing mean we will put pressure on opposition rather then let them dictate their game by us playing deep. Thus we don't need players with top positioning and anticipation as a system with Ole around need. I can see Ralphy play a narrow 4-3-2-1 with McFred, VDB, Bruno and Sancho in it. That would put ample pressure on opposition
 
devilish said:
I can see a shift in our transfer strategy from the safe but expensive signings strategy utilised by Ole to a more risk taking/young talent/bargain hunting one used by Ralphy. Thus 40m that we might raise by selling the likes of Jesse and Matic might get us a long way

I also wonder if Ralphy would solve or at least add a band aid to our CM as it is. Gegen pressing mean we will put pressure on opposition rather then let them dictate their game by us playing deep. Thus we don't need players with top positioning and anticipation as a system with Ole around need. I can see Ralphy play a narrow 4-3-2-1 with McFred, VDB, Bruno and Sancho in it. That would put ample pressure on opposition
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No matter the system these qualities would always be needed in the midfield , Liverpool and City both have Fabinho and Rodri doing exactly that for them and they are the two best pressing teams in the league when they want to .
 
gajender said:
No matter the system these qualities would always be needed in the midfield , Liverpool and City both have Fabinho and Rodri doing exactly that for them and they are the two best pressing teams in the league when they want to .
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I am referring for the next few months. As Ralph said buying in January is tough
 
devilish said:
I am referring for the next few months. As Ralph said buying in January is tough
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Ok your suggestion is interesting but most of these players gift over the possession to opposition like candies to children on halloween which need to improve for it to work .
Hopefully once the summer comes we won't be subjected to Mcfred duo no more.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
I think Rangnick will get Lingard/Pogba/Mata/Matic out in January to make room for one midfield signing and get another one in the summer.

Rangnick usually has an entire XI going both in and out, so I don't believe this notion that he won't show the board his transfer skills at all in Jan.
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I don't know much about Ralf myself, but i still think we should keep Lingard. Of the midfielders that are considered to be more attacking, Lingard is the hardest working one, he offers something different than the others, and i think in a system with more focus on pressing, a Lingard type is pretty useful - and he seems to be kinda happy with being a rotation player, as long as he gets a decent amount of minutes.

If i was in charge, i'd rather try to get out Martial - together with the other ones you listed. We have plenty of wide players now with Amad and Pellistri behind the first team ones, Martial could bring more money in too, i think.
Doubt that much transfer activity is realistic in january, though.
 
gajender said:
Ok your suggestion is interesting but most of these players gift over the possession to opposition like candies to children on halloween which need to improve for it to work .
Hopefully once the summer comes we won't be subjected to Mcfred duo no more.
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Ole's 4-2-3-1 was a bit weird. He expected his forwards (AML, AMC, AMR, STK) to play at a very high line with Bruno basically acting as a shadow striker. Meanwhile his defensive unit was expected to play a high line when attacking and to drop ridiculously deep when defending. That caused a gaping hole in CM with the likes of McT, Fred, AWB and Maguire being tasked to provide Pirloesque/Scholesque long range passing to the forward line. That lead to either United giving possession cheaply or else for them to engage into loads of back/side passing up until the forward line lost their patience and decided to drop deep thus disrupting the quick tempo Ole wanted and expected. Both scenarios often lead to the same conclusion with the opponents quickly regaining ball possession and hit us once again. Under such relentless pressure the lines would break, a mistake would be made, the player's confidence will go in the shitters which would then impact them during the next game. It didn't help the fact that we lack leaders and that our captain is a thin skinned overrated player whose got more experience in being relegated (4 times) then the likes of Cruyff, Van Basten or Platini had won ballon d'or (all won it 3 times). Ole knew about this problem which is why he stated that he was searching for 'complete' CMs like Robson and Keane were.

Rangnick system is different. Gegenpressing put the pressure on opponents which means that unless they are quite comfortable with the ball themselves then they will be the ones making mistakes. He's also a big fan of forward passing which, once again, put less pressure on defence. With Rangnick one mustn't be particularly great in anticipation, positioning or passing ability. What he needs to do is to work hard, be aware whom to press and be courageous enough to pass the ball forward. I expect that the likes of VDB and Hannibal will be used more while the forward line will drop deeper from now on expecially Bruno. Once our forward line is more available to the team then McFred and co job will become easier as the workload will be better distributed and they won't be expected to engage in long term passing as much as under Ole.

What concerns me is not whether our first team CM can weather the storm for the next few months but more the downside of Gegenpressing ie INJURIES. Gegenpressing is very taxing especially on a team who wasn't given a solid pre-season to adapt to it. Taking that + the EPL's gruesome game schedule in account then we must expect our lion share of injuries.To make matters worse some of our players are simply unsuited for it. The likes of Pogba and Martial will struggle with gegenpressing while Matic and Mata simply lack the legs to play such physically taxing system. Not to forget that Ole encouraged individual brilliance over team work. The likes of Greenwood and Bruno could basically shoot from wherever they wanted without suffering any repercussions whatsoever. To 'rewire' these players so they can start dropping deep and be more conservative in their game will be tough and will require time.

So to conclude I am hoping that Rangnick will have a CM or two on the cheap under his sleeve and that the club will financially back him. However I won't be surprised if that doesn't happen. January sales are tough and the club might not be keen to invest money on the targets pushed forward by an interim manager.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
I think Rangnick will get Lingard/Pogba/Mata/Matic out in January to make room for one midfield signing and get another one in the summer.

Rangnick usually has an entire XI going both in and out, so I don't believe this notion that he won't show the board his transfer skills at all in Jan.
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No way Pogba agrees to a january move when he can cash in on a bosman in 6 months. Lingard might since he seems to be desperate to get back into the England squad and he doesn't stand to make quute as much on a free transfer.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
I think Rangnick will get Lingard/Pogba/Mata/Matic out in January to make room for one midfield signing and get another one in the summer.

Rangnick usually has an entire XI going both in and out, so I don't believe this notion that he won't show the board his transfer skills at all in Jan.
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If he's completely ruthless and going with young players who will do what he wants and run a lot, next year probably looks something like this:

ST: Cristiano-Greenwood-Rashford-Elanga (he can still use one big striker who scores 30 goals a year so Cristiano stays and maybe Cavani for one more year if he falls in love with his work attitude)
AM: Sancho-Bruno-#10-Amad
CM: #6-Fred-VDB-McTominay
FB: Telles-Shaw-Dalot-WanBissaka
CB: Varane-CB-Maguire-Lindelof
GK: Henderson-De Gea-Heaton

That's 2 players a spot. Probably also someone like Wan-Bissaka, Shaw or Maguire getting replaced. Then the next year replace Cristiano with a new striker.

4 signings if you replace one of Shaw, Wan-Bissaka or Maguire. That feels like about the limit. Maybe 1 in January and 3 in the summer along with 1-2 U-23 players he was looking at for Moscow maybe.

Pogba does make sense as a mobile, skillful CM who can pass forward in high volume, so I wouldn't rule out this being a working marriage and him staying, either as the #10 above or in place of McTominay.
 
Not sorting out the midfield situation was a terrible decision that played a large part in costing Ole his job.
 
Grylte said:
I don't know much about Ralf myself, but i still think we should keep Lingard. Of the midfielders that are considered to be more attacking, Lingard is the hardest working one, he offers something different than the others, and i think in a system with more focus on pressing, a Lingard type is pretty useful - and he seems to be kinda happy with being a rotation player, as long as he gets a decent amount of minutes.

If i was in charge, i'd rather try to get out Martial - together with the other ones you listed. We have plenty of wide players now with Amad and Pellistri behind the first team ones, Martial could bring more money in too, i think.
Doubt that much transfer activity is realistic in january, though.
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Martial is twice the player Lingard Is though. Lingard is not good enough for Utd.
 
charlenefan said:
Martial isn't good enough for United either
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At least unlike Lingard he’s proven he’s got the talent for this club and has had spells more than good enough. Can’t really say the same for Lingard. Can’t wait to see the back of him.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
At least unlike Lingard he’s proven he’s got the talent for this club and has had spells more than good enough. Can’t really say the same for Lingard. Can’t wait to see the back of him.
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Thats very arguable

Has Martial ever had a spell like Lingard did in 17/18 or the one he did for West Ham for half a season last season?
 
pascell said:
I'm not sure tbh. I think if he wasn't being picked, he'd move somewhere on lesser wages if he was going to be the main man. Lyon would be a good move for him, go back to his old stomping ground.
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Yeah, I'd love for us to move him on. Let's hope he'd pursue playing time over a high wage.
 
charlenefan said:
Thats very arguable

Has Martial ever had a spell like Lingard did in 17/18 or the one he did for West Ham for half a season last season?
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Plenty of times, he's had 2 actual seasons of being good, in 15/16 and 19/20. I don't know if this is going to devolve into a Lingard vs Martial debate but it shouldn't need to, Martial is just objectively the better player, no matter which way you look at it.
 
charlenefan said:
Thats very arguable

Has Martial ever had a spell like Lingard did in 17/18 or the one he did for West Ham for half a season last season?
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Martial was our best player two seasons ago. He’s had unplayable games agaisnt city, scored massive winning goals agaisnt Spurs and Chelsea. He’s in a different league to Lingard who has basically had one purple patch his entire career. Martial hasn’t been great the last 18months but the revisionism and lack of respect for what he did here before is madness.
 
charlenefan said:
Thats very arguable

Has Martial ever had a spell like Lingard did in 17/18 or the one he did for West Ham for half a season last season?
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Yes. He’s scored double the number of goals in significantly fewer appearances. Martial has has a very poor eighteen months, but he’s a significantly better player than Lingard.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Martial was our best player two seasons ago. He’s had unplayable games agaisnt city, scored massive winning goals agaisnt Spurs and Chelsea. He’s in a different league to Lingard who has basically had one purple patch his entire career. Martial hasn’t been great the last 18months but the revisionism and lack of respect for what he did here before is madness.
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Martial's never been our best player, don't talk about revisionism and then refer to a little post lockdown period and claim it equals the best player over an entire season
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Martial is twice the player Lingard Is though. Lingard is not good enough for Utd.
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He might be, but he plays in a different position, a position where we have better players. Lingard is very different to the alternatives in the position he plays.

Also Lingard is more likely to accept a rotation role more than Martial will be over longer time.

It's not just about having the best players in every position, but having good rotation players when you want to change the way you play.
You simply can not have world class backup in every position in real life.
 
TrustInJanuzaj said:
Martial was our best player two seasons ago. He’s had unplayable games agaisnt city, scored massive winning goals agaisnt Spurs and Chelsea. He’s in a different league to Lingard who has basically had one purple patch his entire career. Martial hasn’t been great the last 18months but the revisionism and lack of respect for what he did here before is madness.
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2 seasons ago. Martial is much less consistent, has much lower bottom level.
Lingard also scored match winning and final winning goals.

Not saying i don't want to replace Lingard at any point, but of the 2 i'd rather keep Lingard.
 
Seven Seas Sardines said:
I think Rangnick will get Lingard/Pogba/Mata/Matic out in January to make room for one midfield signing and get another one in the summer.

Rangnick usually has an entire XI going both in and out, so I don't believe this notion that he won't show the board his transfer skills at all in Jan.
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Selling players isn't easy in a pandemic. No matter how skilled you are.
 
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