Depends if you read a book for the journey or for the ending, I guess.
Louis van Gaal's tactics
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Depends if you read a book for the journey or for the ending, I guess.
I can't get my head around this shit either. We kept hearing about this philosophy bollocks, possession football, and then people keep talking about players fitting in the "Van Gaal system" but in the 5 games so far (including the pre-season), that has been totally shelved for a new counter-attacking system. Our CM's are sitting deep protecting the back four, the FB's aren't bombing forward or overlapping, leaving the onus on the 4 attacking players to work almost in isolation and produce chances.
Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Blind, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata, Pereira - that's 8 midfielders; a wide array, with each having distinctive qualities to play in a 3 man midfield. Though, for some reason he has decided that he'll only play two of them in their favored positions, go with two strikers & play Mata as a right winger in a counter-attacking set-up.
I hope it works, though I am unsure how it'll if we don't get the very top players for those 4 positions.
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Weve only scored 4 once I think..that glorious Sunday against QPR
Do you even watch United? I mean common just google it if you want to look smart. And "fans" like you are the most vocal in the last few weeks with their negativity.
I can't get my head around this shit either. We kept hearing about this philosophy bollocks, possession football, and then people keep talking about players fitting in the "Van Gaal system" but in the 5 games so far (including the pre-season), that has been totally shelved for a new counter-attacking system. Our CM's are sitting deep protecting the back four, the FB's aren't bombing forward or overlapping, leaving the onus on the 4 attacking players to work almost in isolation and produce chances.
Carrick, Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Blind, Herrera, Fellaini, Mata, Pereira - that's 8 midfielders; a wide array, with each having distinctive qualities to play in a 3 man midfield. Though, for some reason he has decided that he'll only play two of them in their favored positions, go with two strikers & play Mata as a right winger in a counter-attacking set-up.
I hope it works, though I am unsure how it'll if we don't get the very top players for those 4 positions.
Van Gaal's thought process is impenetrable. With the squad we have it would be easy to field a very effective 433. We have the players needed to put in the kind of performance United produced last season at JuAnfield, and against City and Spurs at home, every week. Van Gaal however has decided to shrink from that for a safety first approach of using six defensive players, leaving our four attacking minded players isolated.
@Insanity even if we got Messi without someone to link the play and get him the ball we'd still struggle to create anything. Say what you want about the players we have, they may not be Neymar's but they've proven themselves effective in the Premier League. For large parts of the second half against Spurs they were literally chasing long hoofed clearances, and on the odd occasions they actually managed to get to those before defenders they had no support. Our midfield was a black hole. It reminded me of the second half of our F.A. Cup loss against Arsenal last year, which is not surprising since that's the last time we played 4231 in a competitive game with two holding players.
My bad, the city game too..I apologize for not being as good a fan as you..I'll try harder next time..anyway, have a nice day.
Sorry. I forgot the Man City game. That makes it all better.
no i didnt say that
He did.
I mentioned that we had scored 4 times once, which should have been twice if Im correct. http://www.skysports.com/manchester-united-results/2014-15
I've already admitted that you are the superior fan, Its there really a reason for us to continue this?
@K2K deleted my post, didn't saw that you said MORE then three. But still point stands, we scored more then 3 two times last season and even against arguably our biggest rival.
But regardless of how many times, the other point still stands at well: Our ability to score goals is not nearly good enough, and our ability to create chances is even worse.
The formation we used against Tottenham is called 4-3-3 by Van Gaal, it's pretty much the exact formation he used at Bayern with two holding midfielders and with the offensive midfielder playing as a second striker when we have possession. Someone else might call it 4-2-3-1 or 4-4-1-1 but in the end those are only numbers on paper and doesn't really matter what matters is how the players have been instructed to act in certain situations and you can't say anything about that by just looking at a couple of numbers.
Under LVG we have become this very defensive team that makes sure it protects its own goal first and foremost.
Now if I try to look at this from a LVG side and give him the benefit of the doubt... Is that because he feels the defence isn't up to it? If that's the case then fair enough... But then you sign a new CB instead of using Blind there. That's his own doing.
I know we have a Brilliant array of midfield talent now but he seems to favour the more defensive minded players which isn't in keeping with the united way.
Now if I try to look at this from a LVG side and give him the benefit of the doubt... Is that because he feels the defence isn't up to it? If that's the case then fair enough... But then you sign a new CB instead of using Blind there. That's his own doing.
I know we have a Brilliant array of midfield talent now but he seems to favour the more defensive minded players which isn't in keeping with the united way.
I did agree that it should have been two..and that was a good perfomance with the players playing a more direct style against City, and LVG deserves all the plaudits he got that day..What a lot of us are saying though is that should not be happening just two games in a season, but more..If we played that kind of football, a lot of people will be happy..For a lot of United fans, that sort of attacking football is what we regard as part of the identity of the club..we just want to see more of it.
I don't this will be the case this season. Last season we were on the run when we scored goal for fun against City, Liverpool and Tottenham. I wouldn't judge to much based on the game against Tottenham. I must say i have been impressed how we stopped Tottenham when we scored. We still had few chances but it was obviously all about the result in that game. LVG wanted a win and we got it and we could easily went 2:0 after we scored.
Yes it is obviously that we lack a player who can create a goal out of nothing but the transfer market is still open so i wouldn't worry to much. First few games all about the result, then when team comes into form i think we will be much better in attack also.
Even in those games we scored more goals than we should have with the chances we created. We didn't score a lot of goals last season but we were actually quite ruthless in taking our chances, we should have scored even fewer.
Agreed. So please explain how what Memphis was doing bares any resemblance to Thomas Muller's role in Van Gaal's Bayern team?
Muller is a genuine link player. He actually is an extra midfielder. With his tireless running he does get forward a lot. However, he is rarely caught ahead of the ball when Bayern are defending. His understanding of timing, space and positioning are incredible. Muller also has tremendous stamina. That means in Van Gaal's 433 with the point forward, he's literally perfect.
Who do we have like that? Memphis may be able to do elements of the attacking bit, but the way he plays the Muller role we end up pretty much playing 4-4-2. With Muller, you would never have an ocean of space opening up between the double pivot and the #10. Just wouldn't happen, ever. Yet, despite not having a player like Muller (Herrera is probably the closest of our midfielders and he's not got a scratch on Muller when it comes to this role), Van Gaal insists on 4231. Its stubborn, its not needed and I fear it won't be successful.
Yep, Muller is a fecking genius that's why LVG loved him so much.
It's an odd one as he even recognises publicly that he needs this type of player but will persist with a formation wheb he doesn't have the parts required to make it work.
It's not up to the club to spend another 100 million to make his ideal formation work. He has to work with what he's got until such a player is secured.
I'm quite confident if we stumble on a system that works he'll stick with it, less certain that he'll change from a inefficient one unless forced.
But this are just characteristics of the good team. Being ruthless in scoring a goal and being very good at defending a lead.
In 2007-08 we scored only 4 in the first 6 games and it was one of our best seasons.
In 2008-09 we went on the run when we from 22th november to 8th februar scored more then one goal in only two games (against Chelsea 3:0 and against WBA 5:0). With arguably our best team in the history and best attack we went on the run of 1:0 wins which lead to the winning the league.
How many times in SAF later days we were playing badly with few chances? As i said i think we will be playing better and better but i wouldn't criticized LVG to much based on the game against Tottenham which we won at the end.
We should just play 4-3-3 instead of trying to turn Memphis into Jari Litmanen. It worked at JuAnfield, it worked when we had to come from one behind at home in the Manchester derby. We now have even better midfielders, midfielders who could make the standard 4-3-3 work even better than it did last year.
The world's best team, Barcelona, play 4-3-3 because it best facilitates the triangles that are required to play the passing, possession football Van Gaal is supposed to believe in. Why have we ditched it, after our best football under Van Gaal came playing it?
The fact is we scored less goals last season than under Moyes
We rarely created lots of chances in games last season and won a large number of our games narrowly
We had players of the class of RVP, Di Maria, Rooney, Falcao leading our attack last year and Fellaini was arguably as effective as any of them in attack - if that doesn't say there is something wrong with our attacking tactics, I don't know what does
We have a smart passing midfield this season but the balance still isn't right
Personally I'm not convinced Rooney has the ability to be our number 9 - he's still a very good player but isn't in the same class as someone like Aguero - I think his attributes are more suited to number 10 where we aren't exactly short of options
Mata...lovely player and all but slow and precise... good on the right but not great and not going to stretch defences - best position number 10
Depay... fast skilful and predictable but like most people I think he'd be more effective from wider positions - early days and could turn out to be a good striker - with his pace and the passing ability behind him he could turn out to be our better option at 9
Young - tries hard and our best attacking player for long periods of last season and against Spurs... his lack of an end product explains the issue we have
The midfield.... is the balance right - did we need 2 deep CMs against Spurs and the threat of Erickson? I'm not so sure - think Bastian and certainly Herrera would provide a more balanced partner to Schneiderlin
Personally I'd like to see a more balanced side with more pace in attack - Pedro would be an obvious improvement on the left - I think Mata is better at 10 and why not play Depay or Januzaj wide?
We are well used to playing attacking dynamic football with width but maybe that isn't what Van Gaal wants to do with his possession based football though - the way we attacked against Barca in preseason with the pace of Lingard, Januzaj and Pereira was great to watch
Hoping we see the 'process' come to fruition on Friday - if we don't score 20 more goals we will struggle to challenge for the title
We rarely created lots of chances in games last season and won a large number of our games narrowly
We had players of the class of RVP, Di Maria, Rooney, Falcao leading our attack last year and Fellaini was arguably as effective as any of them in attack - if that doesn't say there is something wrong with our attacking tactics, I don't know what does
We have a smart passing midfield this season but the balance still isn't right
Personally I'm not convinced Rooney has the ability to be our number 9 - he's still a very good player but isn't in the same class as someone like Aguero - I think his attributes are more suited to number 10 where we aren't exactly short of options
Mata...lovely player and all but slow and precise... good on the right but not great and not going to stretch defences - best position number 10
Depay... fast skilful and predictable but like most people I think he'd be more effective from wider positions - early days and could turn out to be a good striker - with his pace and the passing ability behind him he could turn out to be our better option at 9
Young - tries hard and our best attacking player for long periods of last season and against Spurs... his lack of an end product explains the issue we have
The midfield.... is the balance right - did we need 2 deep CMs against Spurs and the threat of Erickson? I'm not so sure - think Bastian and certainly Herrera would provide a more balanced partner to Schneiderlin
Personally I'd like to see a more balanced side with more pace in attack - Pedro would be an obvious improvement on the left - I think Mata is better at 10 and why not play Depay or Januzaj wide?
We are well used to playing attacking dynamic football with width but maybe that isn't what Van Gaal wants to do with his possession based football though - the way we attacked against Barca in preseason with the pace of Lingard, Januzaj and Pereira was great to watch
Hoping we see the 'process' come to fruition on Friday - if we don't score 20 more goals we will struggle to challenge for the title
I'm not sure some people fully grasp the size of the task LvG faced when he walked into Old Trafford and what he is trying to achieve here.
Challenges
* United had just finished 7th(!) in the Premier League under David Moyes
* LvG inherited a side even worse than the one Moyes had at his disposal, having lost Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs and Evra
* We had lost the core group of experienced players who had won trophies and big matches
* The squad was in decline. Almost every player we had bought in during SAF's last few seasons was inferior to one we lost
* We had failed to qualify for Europe, thus making it even more difficult to convince players to join the club
* Utd under both SAF and Moyes had tried to make the transition to a more "Continental" style of football but had failed miserably (see dismal Europa League campaign under SAF)
In short, we were in serious, serious danger of falling a long way behind the pack. City and Chelsea now have so much resource at their disposal that they are always likely to take up two of the Champions League spots, plus they can offer big wages to entice players they would previously have had no chance of signing. Gone are the days when it was between Utd and one other for the title and for the big name players, now there are 4/5 clubs just in England lining up to compete for players and trophies. That is before we even get to Europe and competing with PSG, Real, Barcelona, Bayern etc...
If LvG had failed to qualify for the Champions League last year we would have potentially been in big trouble. It takes a long time to build a dynasty but it doesn't take long to destroy one and we could have found ourselves in the wilderness for decades. Of course, LvG being the great manager and the pragmatist that he is knew that the likes of Young, Fellaini, Jones, Rafael, RVP etc....were not up to the standard required to challenge for the title so he went about making us tactically disciplined and difficult to beat. Yes it was boring at times and some of the football was painful but we need to take our medicine for the years of mis-management toward the end of SAF's career.
Now things are already looking much rosier, I think with the squad we have now we are practically nailed on for Champions League Qualification at least (sad but this should ALWAYS be the primary objective in NuFootball) and we may even pick up a Cup if we are lucky as we have shown we can beat anybody on our day. Yes we have spent a lot of money, but we clearly needed to! When you need to basically buy a whole new squad of title-winning calibre players it is going to cost you!
In short, don't be ungrateful, don't under-estimate what LvG has already done for us and be patient - we don't have some god-given right to success we have to earn it like everybody else
Challenges
* United had just finished 7th(!) in the Premier League under David Moyes
* LvG inherited a side even worse than the one Moyes had at his disposal, having lost Vidic, Ferdinand, Giggs and Evra
* We had lost the core group of experienced players who had won trophies and big matches
* The squad was in decline. Almost every player we had bought in during SAF's last few seasons was inferior to one we lost
* We had failed to qualify for Europe, thus making it even more difficult to convince players to join the club
* Utd under both SAF and Moyes had tried to make the transition to a more "Continental" style of football but had failed miserably (see dismal Europa League campaign under SAF)
In short, we were in serious, serious danger of falling a long way behind the pack. City and Chelsea now have so much resource at their disposal that they are always likely to take up two of the Champions League spots, plus they can offer big wages to entice players they would previously have had no chance of signing. Gone are the days when it was between Utd and one other for the title and for the big name players, now there are 4/5 clubs just in England lining up to compete for players and trophies. That is before we even get to Europe and competing with PSG, Real, Barcelona, Bayern etc...
If LvG had failed to qualify for the Champions League last year we would have potentially been in big trouble. It takes a long time to build a dynasty but it doesn't take long to destroy one and we could have found ourselves in the wilderness for decades. Of course, LvG being the great manager and the pragmatist that he is knew that the likes of Young, Fellaini, Jones, Rafael, RVP etc....were not up to the standard required to challenge for the title so he went about making us tactically disciplined and difficult to beat. Yes it was boring at times and some of the football was painful but we need to take our medicine for the years of mis-management toward the end of SAF's career.
Now things are already looking much rosier, I think with the squad we have now we are practically nailed on for Champions League Qualification at least (sad but this should ALWAYS be the primary objective in NuFootball) and we may even pick up a Cup if we are lucky as we have shown we can beat anybody on our day. Yes we have spent a lot of money, but we clearly needed to! When you need to basically buy a whole new squad of title-winning calibre players it is going to cost you!
In short, don't be ungrateful, don't under-estimate what LvG has already done for us and be patient - we don't have some god-given right to success we have to earn it like everybody else
This league is ridiculously competitive, not just because of Arsenal, City and Chelsea but also the other teams who have a lot of money and some very good players, we need only look at Arsenal and Chelsea on the weekend to know what can happen, I think Louis van Gaal is to be expected to challenge for the championship while playing attacking football however he shouldn't be expected to do that from the first match, he should be allowed to do it when the team find some form but otherwise build up to it.
It's important to be defensively strong in this league, Mourinho won it last season because of that, City were good going forward but defensively they were let down. I think the defensive first approach against Spurs was sensible, if we keep it tight at the back we shouldn't need to score too many to win matches, this allows us to put points on the board and players to get into their groove, once the confidence and execution is there we can open up more and I'm sure the manager will do that because he knows the most effective approach is a more aggressive one but sensibly he will wait until the team can execute it whilst still being strong defensively, I think the football we play this month won't be the same as November.
Take City they finished 8 points behind Chelsea despite scoring 10 more goals. We can do something similar but if we want to beat Chelsea I think we need to ensure our defence is strong because if we don't the mid table clubs will hurt us, they have some pretty good players who can do that, the tv money means they can attract the better players who aren't good enough for the European clubs.
Also I thought our pressing was good considering where we were before Louis arrived. Mata also works hard for our team, I didn't see him get much credit for winning the ball back (interception) to start the counter attack that led to our goal, we won the ball back from our press quite a few times and i'm sure this will only improve.
It's important to be defensively strong in this league, Mourinho won it last season because of that, City were good going forward but defensively they were let down. I think the defensive first approach against Spurs was sensible, if we keep it tight at the back we shouldn't need to score too many to win matches, this allows us to put points on the board and players to get into their groove, once the confidence and execution is there we can open up more and I'm sure the manager will do that because he knows the most effective approach is a more aggressive one but sensibly he will wait until the team can execute it whilst still being strong defensively, I think the football we play this month won't be the same as November.
Take City they finished 8 points behind Chelsea despite scoring 10 more goals. We can do something similar but if we want to beat Chelsea I think we need to ensure our defence is strong because if we don't the mid table clubs will hurt us, they have some pretty good players who can do that, the tv money means they can attract the better players who aren't good enough for the European clubs.
Also I thought our pressing was good considering where we were before Louis arrived. Mata also works hard for our team, I didn't see him get much credit for winning the ball back (interception) to start the counter attack that led to our goal, we won the ball back from our press quite a few times and i'm sure this will only improve.
I'm sure plenty only watch the highlights.
And if we end up Champions at the end of the season, no United supporters will complain what sort of football we played.
People are complaining because they think this is real life Football Manager. It's like you put X here and O here, tell them to run this way, and BANG, winning team, free flowing football. It's the first game of the season. Under Fergie, we virtually always started slow. We ground out plenty of ugly 1-0 wins. We always peaked in the latter half of the season, which is where you want to be. No point being Arsenal and winning the Premier League table before Christmas, you want to be there at the end.
This early in the season, I'd be glad if we grind out 1-0 wins for our first 4-5 games. Considering we're integrating so many new players, and compared to how we started last season, points on the board are the most important thing at this stage of the season.
I think people forget some of the tumescent shite served up by some of Fergies teams over the years. It wasn't always break neck counter attacking football. We're working towards something, it's the first game of the season, literally everyone was tumescent this weekend.
That is dismissing the concerns of a lot of supporters, many of whom have probably never played football manager.
A lot of supporters are just baffled by the fact we could smash Spurs only a few months ago playing 4-3-3, only to abandon that system in favour of just about grinding out a 1-0 against them. Does anyone genuinely think had Eriksen's lob landed under the bar we would have got back into it playing as we did?
The concern is with the way Van Gaal has, again, changed the team shape we've become worse not better. We played better drawing 0-0 with Arsenal at the end of last season than we did at the weekend. Against better teams it may lead to losses, against worse teams it may mean we drop points in winnable games.
Best post in here by a country mile.
First of all. I really don't think any single poster on here believes that we have a given right to success. The amount of criticism (yes, criticism, not whinging) does not equate to being spoilt. Many of the issues identified or complained about on this forum are legit ones; such as our lack of tempo, lack of creativity, being too safe, shoehorning players out of position, dropping the ones who have clearly made a difference. There are all substantial arguments for those.
Sure we've failed to convince players to join us, but who were we really after? Realistically? And who did we get? Ander, Bastian, Mata, Memphis, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Shaw, ADM (feck him), Falcao I personally can't find any fault with that list. Did we really miss out on anyone? Hummels maybe if it were true at all.
We lost Giggs, Evra, Rio and Vidic. Who were all in the latter stages of their career. In Giggs' case, the extreme latter end so much so people were calling for his retirement. Would they be making a big difference right now? Uncertain, but probably not. We'd be calling for a refreshment of the backline by now had they stayed, I dare say.
LVG's done some really good stuff here, he stabilised us last season and got Fellaini and Young to pull up their socks and got us back into European contention whilst showing he could dominate the big teams. If those performances are the fruition of his "philosophy" that will come true soon, the great! But right now he's showing the tendency to make the same mistakes that will hold us back from truly coming back to the top.
We don't have anyone like Müller because there is no other player like him in football today. I like everyone else was expecting Memphis to play on the wing with Mata or Herrera playing the attacking midfielder role but as many have seen with Van Gaal before he never does the obvious thing. Maybe playing Memphis centrally will turn out to be a masterstroke or maybe it won't we just have to wait and see. What I do think we need if it's going to work is atleast one quality winger preferably two and I mean real wingers who stay wide so that it creats space for the central players not players like Mata who drifts inside all the time. Playing possesion football you want the opposition to chase the ball around the whole field but with wingers like Mata who drifts inside things just get to congeste centrally this is why Young gets to play almost every game he is the only winger in our squad.
I think my problem with LvG is that my favourite phase in football is the one LvG appears to like the least. I like the bit where the ball moves from the defence to the attack.
I like the players who make that happen by running with the ball - we've had a few of them, the special ones like Giggs, Ronaldo, and the unwanted ones Nani, Di Maria. I like the players who make that happen by being available and moving the ball - Scholes used to do that, it wasn't just his long passes that made him special, and Herrera who now looks in danger of becoming another unwanted one.
The trouble, for me, is that LvG doesn't appear to want that kind of play. He's got his possession setup, his defensive structure and his attackers. It doesn't seem to bother him that the hoofed clearance was one of our primary weapons last year and it doesn't seem to bother him when we play a formation with a hole in the middle like a 42--4. The back 6 (or 8 or 9) to circulate the ball, the front 4 (or 1) to get lucky.
It's functional, especially with a Robben or a Rivaldo, but I suspect I'll always miss the adrenaline rush of watching players heading towards the box, even if the results go well.
I like the players who make that happen by running with the ball - we've had a few of them, the special ones like Giggs, Ronaldo, and the unwanted ones Nani, Di Maria. I like the players who make that happen by being available and moving the ball - Scholes used to do that, it wasn't just his long passes that made him special, and Herrera who now looks in danger of becoming another unwanted one.
The trouble, for me, is that LvG doesn't appear to want that kind of play. He's got his possession setup, his defensive structure and his attackers. It doesn't seem to bother him that the hoofed clearance was one of our primary weapons last year and it doesn't seem to bother him when we play a formation with a hole in the middle like a 42--4. The back 6 (or 8 or 9) to circulate the ball, the front 4 (or 1) to get lucky.
It's functional, especially with a Robben or a Rivaldo, but I suspect I'll always miss the adrenaline rush of watching players heading towards the box, even if the results go well.
It's got absolutely nothing to do with Football Manager. He's had over a year and three transfer windows to buil a team capable of attcking and breaking down opponents and he's failing. He's supposed to be one of the top managers in the world. If it were just one game then people wouldn't be complaining. It's been a year of the same slow, overly cautious football. David Moyes would not be defended for having us play this way.
It was a lot better than what we see now for the most part. And he was more successful at it too. I don't think we can doubt Alex Ferguson wanted his team to attack and score lots of goals.
If Memphis score goals and gets assists then it will be a masterstroke. If he doesn't what will it do to the boys confidence? With lads like him it can be a thin line between arrogance and having no confidence at all.
In general, Yes. In each game, No.
Let's face it, Tottenham was a big game and the first of the season. LVG wanted to make sure we don't lose (first), and win if possible. Fergie resorted to defensive line-ups in such games. Remember the city game in the 2011-12 season? Maybe he played this version of the 4-3-3 in the pre-season and in the first game, as it was intended to not get beat first and foremost.
LVG loves to set up his teams differently for each opponent - and maybe the system will evolve and he will rotate players based on what he needs in each game. In that sense, he has bought the perfect players to play multiple strategies. Its one of the things I am over the moon about. He played Herrera in the second half in the #10 role, isn't that an indicator LVG wants to build up his match fitness too? We are reading too much into 1 game. His tactics for the season will show only after the first 8-10 games.
Not too sure how having 3 points after the first game is failing
I wish people would give more consideration to the fact that it was the first game of the season and last season after we did really well in pre season we got done at home in the first game and it hurt the team massive in terms of confidence. Just give the team at least 6-8 games before saying anything conclusive about the formation and the tactics.
If he thinks that's 433, then he really is cuckoo.
433 has 3 midfielders, even if one is an advanced AM, they are still part of a collective 3 in the midfield. There's no way Memphis was operating in that capacity, nor should he be, to be honest.
The opposition adapts. Pochinetto is no mug. He adapted his team specifically to counter what worked against him last time. We killed them on our left flank last time we played, and this time they specifically put Dembele there with Dier to help shield the back four.
Unless your team is overwhelmingly superior to the opposition (or you've got a Messi/Ronaldo type of player), you're not going to be able to go in with the same gameplan and expect to blitz them exactly how you did before.
can we wait unitl the CL qualifiers before we sack him? thanks
Our results against the Top 6 opposition last season speak otherwise. Compare that with Moyes season. We fell over last year because LVG probably underestimated the lower sides, he even admitted as much towards the end of the season; he won't make that mistake again this season.
We didn't end up 7th under LVG, and we didn't lose virtually every game against the Top 6 unlike the season before. I'm not sure where your comparison with Moyes comes from.
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