Louis van Gaal | Manchester United manager

Status
Not open for further replies.
BarstoolProphet said:
And also our team unity looks stronger, there doesn't seem to be any open discontent.
Click to expand...

This is interesting, but you also have to ask the question as to how long team unity would last if results aren't coming. In any discipline, team morale is very often correlated with results (especially matches won), and the only way morale can remain high and even get higher is by winning games. There's only a short period of time in which morale levels could remain steady while results are not quite satisfying.

MDFC Manager said:
According to Bayern fans, LvG builds from the front. The defense isn't a priority for him, atleast to start with. Obviously that's questionable as it goes against normal practice. But it's worked for him before...
Click to expand...

Obviously, he will have to change that mantra quickly because no team ever won the English league without a solid defensive unit.
 
Can't find the thread dedicated to it, so might as well discuss it here.

352, what the hell was all that about?! Seemed to serve no purpose other than spending our pre-season and warm-up games getting players to adapt to new positions (remember Ashley Young the wing-back?) and playing a completely alien formation. This, in turn, translated into some hilariously bad defending in our opening league games and a humiliating exit from the CC then - bosh - we never see the fecking formation again. Not even as something to switch to during a game. We even had our U-18s/U-21s playing the formation for a while but it died a death for them too.

I'm in two minds about what to make of all of this. I guess it's good that Van Gaal wasn't stubborn enough to persist with something that blatantly isn't working. Conversely, we sucked up those early results on the basis of short term pain and long term gain but we ended up ditching the approach entirely and starting from scratch with midfield diamonds and the like. Wouldn't it have been better if Van Gaal hadn't opted for such a weird system in the first place? Or, if he really believes in it, shouldn't we have kept going until the team were eventually able to play the formation in the way he intended?

I'm not convinced the change in personnel by the end of the transfer window can be used a reason for the change. The likes of Blind, Di Maria and Falcao would theoretically be just as comfortable in a 352. It's all a bit strange and regrettable. Feels like we dropped a bunch of what should have been easy points without any real long term gain from our approach.
 
I think Ferguson and Moyes have to shoulder...all...of the blame when it comes to the defence we have now. Van Gaal was left with injury prone charlatans as centre backs and very little in the market to replace them with. I think instead of buying Falcao or someone of that ilk, we should have bought Benatia.
 
Adebesi said:
I believe it shows Van Gaal is willing to try things but pragmatic enough to abandon them when theyre not working. I wont criticise him for trying it out though.
Click to expand...
I will, when it cost us valuable points. The place to try things out is on the training ground or in friendlies, not in matches where points are at stake.
 
Rykker_4united said:
I think Ferguson and Moyes have to shoulder...all...of the blame when it comes to the defence we have now. Van Gaal was left with injury prone charlatans as centre backs and very little in the market to replace them with. I think instead of buying Falcao or someone of that ilk, we should have bought Benatia.
Click to expand...
Benatia would have been perfect but by all accounts wanted to play CL football. When Bayern came in for him we had no chance.
 
Rykker_4united said:
I think Ferguson and Moyes have to shoulder...all...of the blame when it comes to the defence we have now. Van Gaal was left with injury prone charlatans as centre backs and very little in the market to replace them with. I think instead of buying Falcao or someone of that ilk, we should have bought Benatia.
Click to expand...

He rejected us, because of the lack of CL.
 
Rykker_4united said:
I think Ferguson and Moyes have to shoulder...all...of the blame when it comes to the defence we have now. Van Gaal was left with injury prone charlatans as centre backs and very little in the market to replace them with. I think instead of buying Falcao or someone of that ilk, we should have bought Benatia.
Click to expand...
So how is that Sir Alex and Moyes fault then?
Sure, they were arguably at fault for leaving behind a suspect defence, but not at fault for van Gaal not strengthening it.

You say there was very little in the market, and then name a player.
There are/were quite a few more. It was hardly easier last summer, in terms of options.
 
We should have moved Rio and Vidic on sooner. The rotation and uncertainty at the back in previous years has shafted Smalling, Evans and Jones. If they are genuinely injury prone, we would have discovered this sooner.
 
adexkola said:
We should have moved Rio and Vidic on sooner. The rotation and uncertainty at the back in previous years has shafted Smalling, Evans and Jones. If they are genuinely injury prone, we would have discovered this sooner.
Click to expand...
Absolutely agree. I can understand keeping Vidic more so than Ferdinand, but they became a hindrance in more than one way.
 
I'm not sure I agree with Benatia being the only central defender in the whole of Europe who was available and good enough to improve us. Even if we only consider players that changed clubs over the summer, there are a number of CBs having their debut season for other PL clubs that actually look quite decent. Southampton don't seem to be missing Lovren at all, for example, with Alderweireld looking very accomplished. Surely there are similar examples from other major European leagues?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm not sure I agree with Benatia being the only central defender in the whole of Europe who was available and good enough to improve us. Even if we only consider players that changed clubs over the summer, there are a number of CBs having their debut season for other PL clubs that actually look quite decent. Southampton don't seem to be missing Lovren at all, for example, with Alderweireld looking very accomplished. Surely there are similar examples from other major European leagues?
Click to expand...

Makes you wonder what our scout team has been doing recently.
 
adexkola said:
Makes you wonder what our scout team has been doing recently.
Click to expand...

Never mind our scouting team, when a new manager starts they'll usually arrive with a list of players they're already aware of. Worked out well with Blind but it beggars belief that Van Gaal couldn't come up with a single centre-back that would improve our team other than Rojo, Vermaelen and Hummels. Surely there were other quality options out there?
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Never mind our scouting team, when a new manager starts they'll usually arrive with a list of players they're already aware of. Worked out well with Blind but it beggars belief that Van Gaal couldn't come up with a single centre-back that would improve our team other than Rojo, Vermaelen and Hummels. Surely there were other quality options out there?
Click to expand...

Is there though? I'm no Van Gaal but I'm struggling to think of any.
 
O ye of little faith.

The broad strokes are in place. Only a fool wouldn't see that.

Exceptional circumstances (injuries, players being complete morons with their actions on the pitch etc) are holding the team back in terms of points. We will move forward. We are still, despite the points not showing it, much more dangerous than Liverpool and Arsenal. And I didn't think we would be coming into this season. I thought Liverpool and Arsenal would be comfortably getting the 3rd/4th spot but I'm convinced results and our claim to those league positions will change very soon.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Never mind our scouting team, when a new manager starts they'll usually arrive with a list of players they're already aware of. Worked out well with Blind but it beggars belief that Van Gaal couldn't come up with a single centre-back that would improve our team other than Rojo, Vermaelen and Hummels. Surely there were other quality options out there?
Click to expand...

The one people were talking at is Benatia who moved to Bayern from Roma, but I have to admit I'd not seen much of him (and still haven't). Apart from players at other big clubs I can't think of any defenders off the top of my head who're up the standards we're used to at United, but I can probably think of a fair few who are better than our current options.
 
To be fair, he couldnt solve all our issues in one transfer window. Losing Evra, Rio and Vida in one summer would hurt any team on the planet. Let's just hope we find stability soon
 
What about Miranda, weren't we linked with him over the summer? I seem remember a crazy price being mentioned for a 30 year-old, but can't help feeling it would have been a worthwhile bit of business, even at the cost of not signing Falcao.
 
I'm not sure about Alderweireld, he didn't look very convincing at Atletico Madrid. Like with Lovren last season, he gets a lot of protection from Schneiderlin and Wanyama ahead of him. Carragher did some decent analysis on it yesterday, those two are beasts.

There weren't too many available, our scouts apparently looked at Mangala and concluded that he's a cross between Boumsong and Yobo. Apart from the game against Chelsea he has looked very dodgy. Perhaps we should have gone for Vlaar as an experienced stopgap.
 
Last edited:
He also spent 16m on a CB who no one was looking at or talking about prior to the WC where he did well at LB. Rojo looks like a car crash waiting to happen every time the ball is near him whether it be his distribution or someone running at him.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
I'm not sure I agree with Benatia being the only central defender in the whole of Europe who was available and good enough to improve us. Even if we only consider players that changed clubs over the summer, there are a number of CBs having their debut season for other PL clubs that actually look quite decent. Southampton don't seem to be missing Lovren at all, for example, with Alderweireld looking very accomplished. Surely there are similar examples from other major European leagues?
Click to expand...

It is pretty impressive with how Southampton have done this season with what, four of their top players leaving? Was it Koeman who brought the replacements in? I argue that football wise they are better than last season....

.....Hey...if LVG really fecks up...Koeman for a replacement anyone?.......
 
Boycott said:
He also spent 16m on a CB who no one was looking at or talking about prior to the WC where he did well at LB. Rojo looks like a car crash waiting to happen every time the ball is near him whether it be his distribution or someone running at him.
Click to expand...

I keep reading this nonsense. Seriously when it comes to centre backs, Rojo is not the one to be looking at. He's fine. You can debate if he's improved things all you want but he's not a 'car crash waiting to happen' so just stop talking rubbish.

You want to get angry about shite centre backs, then aim your vitriol at Smalling and Jones.
 
Minimalist said:
O ye of little faith.

The broad strokes are in place. Only a fool wouldn't see that.

Exceptional circumstances (injuries, players being complete morons with their actions on the pitch etc) are holding the team back in terms of points. We will move forward. We are still, despite the points not showing it, much more dangerous than Liverpool and Arsenal. And I didn't think we would be coming into this season. I thought Liverpool and Arsenal would be comfortably getting the 3rd/4th spot but I'm convinced results and our claim to those league positions will change very soon.
Click to expand...
Have you even watched them? They are far more dangerous than us, creating much better chances and their play is way faster/direct, they also have their defense solid.
 
Minimalist said:
I keep reading this nonsense. Seriously when it comes to centre backs, Rojo is not the one to be looking at. He's fine. You can debate if he's improved things all you want but he's not a 'car crash waiting to happen' so just stop talking rubbish.

You want to get angry about shite centre backs, then aim your vitriol at Smalling and Jones.
Click to expand...

Yeah, I don't quite understand this brigade who are on Rojo's back. He's only just started in the team and already I've seen things that make me think he'll be a very good player for us given a bit more time and a more consistent defense. We are asking a lot of him at the moment.
 
Boycott said:
He also spent 16m on a CB who no one was looking at or talking about prior to the WC where he did well at LB. Rojo looks like a car crash waiting to happen every time the ball is near him whether it be his distribution or someone running at him.
Click to expand...

I think that's really harsh. He can be a bit rash but I've had no concerns with him. Lets not forget this is all new to him and he's playing a shaky defensive unit, constantly changing back line and team under pressure.

In fact, the other 3 more established central defenders have been the problem. Either with injury or brain farts. I was all for giving Evans, Jones & Smalling the chance to cement their name down long term but none of them have done so. Jones and Smalling have shown glimpses but then yeah, brain farts happen.
 
Zoo said:
I'm not convinced about Alderweireld, he didn't look very convincing at Atletico Madrid. Like with Lovren last season, he gets a lot of protection from Schneiderlin and Wanyama ahead of him. Carragher did some decent analysis on it yesterday, those two are beasts.

There weren't too many available, our scouts apparently looked at Mangala and concluded that he's a cross between Boumsong and Yobo. Apart from the game against Chelsea he has looked very dodgy. Perhaps we should have gone for Vlaar as an experienced stopgap.
Click to expand...

:lol:

I actually wonder what our scouts are up to. You always hear talk about Manchester United scouts being at games around Europe looking at x,y,z yet we haven't had a low profile signing like a Vidic, Evra, Smalling, Tosic, Park, Hernandez signing for a while.

Certainly for the amount of players we are discussed as looking at it seems we discard them rather quickly. Obviously some don't work out at United, and some don't work out at all. It wouldn't at all be a big thing because it's probably the same elsewhere but with United it seems our scouts are always identified so we pay more attention.
 
Sammyjunn said:
Have you even watched them? They are far more dangerous than us, creating much better chances and their play is way faster/direct, they also have their defense solid.
Click to expand...

We'll see very shortly I guess. I don't think they're that great myself.
 
I think Smalling has been one of our better defenders this season. I'm quite optimistic about him. Yeah..he was a bit brain farty the other day, but then again so have a lot of players.
 
Boycott said:
:lol:

I actually wonder what our scouts are up to. You always hear talk about Manchester United scouts being at games around Europe looking at x,y,z yet we haven't had a low profile signing like a Vidic, Evra, Smalling, Tosic, Park, Hernandez signing for a while.

Certainly for the amount of players we are discussed as looking at it seems we discard them rather quickly. Obviously some don't work out at United, and some don't work out at all. It wouldn't at all be a big thing because it's probably the same elsewhere but with United it seems our scouts are always identified so we pay more attention.
Click to expand...

I kind of look at Rojo as a low profile signing...
 
togg said:
I think Smalling has been one of our better defenders this season. I'm quite optimistic about him. Yeah..he was a bit brain farty the other day, but then again so have a lot of players.
Click to expand...

I think he's looked the better of the bunch when he's featured this season. He was very good against Chelsea and was doing just fine against City until... well you know.

All of our defenders have the ability to be very good players in my opinion, they just need to show it otherwise it might be too late and see their chance gone.
 
Zoo said:
I'm not sure about Alderweireld, he didn't look very convincing at Atletico Madrid. Like with Lovren last season, he gets a lot of protection from Schneiderlin and Wanyama ahead of him. Carragher did some decent analysis on it yesterday, those two are beasts.

There weren't too many available, our scouts apparently looked at Mangala and concluded that he's a cross between Boumsong and Yobo. Apart from the game against Chelsea he has looked very dodgy. Perhaps we should have gone for Vlaar as an experienced stopgap.
Click to expand...

Atletico are my 2nd team and I've watched Toby quite a lot, He always looked good and reliable when he played, didn't make many mistakes. The problem was he was never going to break up the Miranda and Godin partnership, Similar to all the CB's that couldn't get a look in here when we had Rio \ Vida.

Toby would of been a decent signing for us, Not in the class of Hummels etc. but would of certainly tided us over until next Summer.
 
Trigg said:
I think that's really harsh. He can be a bit rash but I've had no concerns with him.

In fact, the other 3 more established central defenders have been the problem. Either with injury or brain farts. I was all for giving Evans, Jones & Smalling the chance to cement their name down long term but none of them have done so. Jones and Smalling have shown glimpses but then yeah, brain farts happen.
Click to expand...

He just looks too rash. Perhaps with a leader alongside him, a calming influence he'll be more at ease. Whenever we've been under the cosh none of them fill with confidence because they all panic and make brain farts. I guess with Rojo it stands out more because IMO he won't be a starter for this club so it kinda bemuses me why we bought him. His style isn't what we needed because you can say the other three could have been fighting for one spot and we sign an experience, strong no nonsense CB. Again that will be a short term signing but that type of player whether it be Shawcross, Vlaar etc can help our other defenders learn from their experience.
 
Trigg said:
I think he's looked the better of the bunch when he's featured this season. He was very good against Chelsea and was doing just fine against City until... well you know.

All of our defenders have the ability to be very good players in my opinion, they just need to show it otherwise it might be too late and see their chance gone.
Click to expand...

Yeah I agree. The problem with Jones and Evans though is that they only seem to be able to play a few games before having a load of games off due to injury. You need defenders who have more hardened bodies against injury, for want of a better phrase, to be able to create an understanding which in turn allows them to predict better what each other is going to do. Ferguson is right, to win titles you have to have a consistent strong defense, certainly in the Premiership anyway.
 
Boycott said:
:lol:

I actually wonder what our scouts are up to. You always hear talk about Manchester United scouts being at games around Europe looking at x,y,z yet we haven't had a low profile signing like a Vidic, Evra, Smalling, Tosic, Park, Hernandez signing for a while.

Certainly for the amount of players we are discussed as looking at it seems we discard them rather quickly. Obviously some don't work out at United, and some don't work out at all. It wouldn't at all be a big thing because it's probably the same elsewhere but with United it seems our scouts are always identified so we pay more attention.
Click to expand...

That's just completely wrong. There's no way you can talk about any of Vidic, Park or Evra as a "low profile signing" but if you do, then Blind, Rojo, Hererra and Shaw all belong in the same category. And they were all signed this summer!
 
We've had far too many really. One argument before this summer was that SAF liked a gamble and bought far too many of these rough diamonds rather than spend 2 or 3 times as much as get some proven quality.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.