Louis van Gaal | Manchester United manager

[Adebesi]

Speaking only for myself, i'm just highlighting that LvG is getting a much easier ride than Moyes ever did, despite his results actually being worse at this point. That's just a fact.

I also think that Moyes can have no complaints about his sacking, that LvG obviously has the greater pedigree as a manager, and that there's more chance he'll come good than not.

But there were some people on here - and less so within the general fanbase - who blatantly never wanted or rated Moyes from the start, and so never cut him the kind slack that LvG is currently getting. For them he was always going to be the mid-table dinosaur from Everton, rather than the continental sophisticate they craved.

From his results to his tactics to his pre and post-match quotes to his track record. There were all mercilessly torn apart by those who wanted his head on a spike, in a way that they simply aren't being with his successor.

But I think the fact that LvG - with his glut of world-class signings and vast experience - is himself struggling to get us playing well shows just what a hard job it was that Moyes had walked into.

The psychoanalysis of his every post match comment, his every pitch-side expression, of every conceivable thing he did being held up as evidence of not being good enough, was completely ridiculous to be fair. Whether it is inconsistent or not, fair or not, whatever, Im glad LVG is not getting that because it was as tedious as hell.

 

[Dans]

United play better football under VG than they ever did under Moyes.

VG inherited a squad with defensive problems and without stalwarts Ferdinand and Vidic (who were at Moyes' disposal all last season).

Shaw is young and very obviously a work in progress - defensively he has not looked all that to date.
Jones and Smalling, well I'll say no more than I am fans of neither.
Rojo was, I think, the only defender on the market who fitted VGs needs i.e. a left footer. He needs time too but is promising I feel, though he should be showing more than Shaw for example given his age.

Until Van Gaal can build a defence that is his, I think he deserves time - as an attacking team I think we saw last night that we are on the right track. Obviously having 60m to spend on a Di Maria helps, but you can't help think that even had all the stars aligned as they did for United when Di Maria came available, you are hard pushed to think that after a chat with Moyes he'd have been on his way to us under equal circumstances last summer.

VG is a different class to Moyes - he needs time to prove it, something he has an infinitely better likelihood of doing than Moyes would have.

 

[Speak]

Vidic and Ferdinand being available last season was hardly a blessing...

 

[Nighteyes]

I'm surprised at people who can't see any improvement. We look like scoring goals again, that's as big an improvement as any.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

The psychoanalysis of his every post match comment, his every pitch-side expression, of every conceivable thing he did being held up as evidence of not being good enough, was completely ridiculous to be fair. Whether it is inconsistent or not, fair or not, whatever, Im glad LVG is not getting that because it was as tedious as hell.

I find it hard to understand how many on the Caf have not recognized a completely different team, style or atmosphere this year as compared to last year. In each game I watch I see a team with obvious attacking threat trying to play as a team and try to win games, I did not see that at all last year. I saw a team that looked confused and scared to play. I can probably count on one hand how many games we dominated last year. The points we have won this season is very disappointing, but it is obvious we are moving in the right direction. People focus on the back line as it supports their theory that we should have spent heavily in that area. Last year we changed the back four for the sake of it and played a lot of players out of position, especially Smalling and Jones. This year, LVG is playing people in their preferred position. We have not really been outplayed in one game. Our forward line, though not clicking is still one of the highest goal scoring, if it wasn't for Leicester we would have one of the best defensive records as well.
I am really looking forward to the second half of the season as I can see progress.

 

[Freak]

I don'tunderstand how every team with played thus far have turned into fecking barca. It's like playing a fifa game. it's about time we start smashing teams to bringback that fear factor.

 

[Sweet Square]

Is this structure the same as the mythical philosophy??

Our defense certainly has no structure. Our front three not particularly combining well or breaking quickly. I think people are simply overawed we have an actual midfield now. Perhaps my eyes aren't as keen as others but no structure, philosophy or strategy stands out so far just Di Maria. Perhaps our midfielders passing it to each other and making themselves available but that's basics.

I just hope he can sort the defensive shape of the team out quickly or its going to get messy as its harder from here on in.

I agree with that this philosophy stuff is a lot more mythical than real. Someone describe it as 'LVG philosophy is so complex that even LVG can't understand it' which I think some it up.

About LVG giving United structure I meant that we are final playing like a unit. There's an plan on the pitch, it's not as you say just give it to Di Maria which happened a lot under the last years of Fergie and Moyes. When the plan was to wait for moments of magic from our best players.

For me our biggest problems is when we don't have the ball which after the mess of last season is a step in the right direction.

As for the defensive situation Balu make a great point

That's a general problem when playing a highline though, that won't change. Part of the idea behind possession football is to reduce the number of chances the opponent gets, not to reduce the quality of chances against your team. The nature of the style means that you have to press and intercept passes and ideally have a sweeper keeper who is comfortable doing the sweeping behind the centerbacks to reduce the number of one-on-ones against him even further. Every time the opponent gets through the midfield it'll lead to high procentage chances and therefore often to a goal with the first shot on goal. It's the reason why van Gaal always builds his team from front to back and why defensive organisation is actually of low priority in the beginning of his working process. You give more stability to the defense by improving the midfield and attack than by spending time on telling your defenders what to do. The latter is fine tuning.

Or in short, the first months are always a nightmare for the defenders and even great defenders will look bad, if they are new to this style. There's just no way around it.

It really will be interesting to see what van Gaal does in the upcoming games against Chelsea and City and if he reverts back to a defensive/counterattacking formation like he did with the nationalteam at the World Cup just to get results. He never did at Barca or Bayern though, he sticked to his philosophy and believed that the development of the team is more important than shortterm results.

 

[Getsme]

I don'tunderstand how every team with played thus far have turned into fecking barca. It's like playing a fifa game. it's about time we start smashing teams to bringback that fear factor.

Its because we dont have the fear factor that teams are playing better against us, we need to get it back and as you said the only way we can do that is by smashing teams into oblivion. That or 6 points against Chelsea and City.

 

[NessunDorma]

I'm surprised at people who can't see any improvement. We look like scoring goals again, that's as big an improvement as any.

I agree that in spells, we've looked very good going forward. Although when you have Di Maria/Rooney/RvP/Falcao/Herrera on the pitch, it would be hard not to.

But the points are the points, and to date, we've arguably picked up too few relative to the quality of the opposition faced.

I do think we'll come good eventually, and after the QPR game, I even said I fancied us to challenge for the title (that may have been a little optimistic, although if we can settle the defence down . . .).

And i'm certainly not desperate to see LvG fail in the way some were clearly desperate to see Moyes fail - i.e. people openly saying they wanted us to lose so he would be sacked from around Christmas 2013 onwards.

Just think that Moyes was never the clueless buffoon so many people on here painted him as, and even if he ultimately wasn't good enough, he deserved better than the treatment he got from some of them.

 

[Nighteyes]

Just think that Moyes was never the clueless buffoon so many people on here painted him as, and even if he ultimately wasn't good enough, he deserved better than the treatment he got from some of them.

This I agree with wholeheartedly.

 

[Roboc7]

Speaking only for myself, i'm just highlighting that LvG is getting a much easier ride than Moyes ever did, despite his results actually being worse at this point. That's just a fact.

I also think that Moyes can have no complaints about his sacking, that LvG obviously has the greater pedigree as a manager, and that there's more chance he'll come good than not.

But there were some people on here - and less so within the general fanbase - who blatantly never wanted or rated Moyes from the start, and so never cut him the kind slack that LvG is currently getting. For them he was always going to be the mid-table dinosaur from Everton, rather than the continental sophisticate they craved.

From his results to his tactics to his pre and post-match quotes to his track record. There were all mercilessly torn apart by those who wanted his head on a spike, in a way that they simply aren't being with his successor.

But I think the fact that LvG - with his glut of world-class signings and vast experience - is himself struggling to get us playing well shows just what a hard job it was that Moyes had walked into.

Moyes was always going to be torn apart because he was under qualified, he was a mid table manager and he was outdated, the only reason to stick with him was blind faith. LVG on the other hand has a history of managing at the highest level, has won trophies and is renowned for playing good football so that’s why he gets more slack.

It might not seem fair but if things are going badly the manager with a history of success has more chance of being given time because he can point to what he has achieved in the past whereas the manager who is under qualified has it all to prove. I didn't want to see him fail but it was a mistake appointing him and the sooner he went the better, I would have sacked him much earlier.

The other big issue is LVG is implementing a new playing style and has overseen a huge overhaul of the squad and been hampered by a late start and injuries, it’s way too early to make comparisons and the jobs they took on were very different. I am sure he would have preferred the squad Moyes inherited rather than the one Moyes left him with.

Ultimately though he will be judged on results and if they don’t improve there will be consequences, at least there is hope with LVG though, there was no hope with Moyes.

 

[Freak]

Someone needs to stick a pin in his chair so that he finally gets up during games instead if sitting on his arse all game writing notes.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Someone needs to stick a pin in his chair so that he finally gets up during games instead if sitting on his arse all game writing notes.

You mean one of our coaching staff should do this?

 

[Empire]

If we play that formation of a midfield one against Chelsea, they will absolutely murder us. I honestly have no idea what the thinking behind those tactics were last night, but it certainly wasn't a 4-2-3-1, and we certainly weren't packing the midfield.

It was more like some sort of 4-1-4-1 with us packing the final 3rd of the pitch, and leaving Blind all on his own in the centre for the majority of the game. It was stupid.

We created quite a few chances and limited theirs, clearly that's 'stupid'.

Obviously it will look like a 4-1-4-1 when the opposition defend deep and we are going for the win. Formations are never fixed, how the team appears depends on the circumstances.

 

[Adebesi]

I find it hard to understand how many on the Caf have not recognized a completely different team, style or atmosphere this year as compared to last year. In each game I watch I see a team with obvious attacking threat trying to play as a team and try to win games, I did not see that at all last year. I saw a team that looked confused and scared to play. I can probably count on one hand how many games we dominated last year. The points we have won this season is very disappointing, but it is obvious we are moving in the right direction. People focus on the back line as it supports their theory that we should have spent heavily in that area. Last year we changed the back four for the sake of it and played a lot of players out of position, especially Smalling and Jones. This year, LVG is playing people in their preferred position. We have not really been outplayed in one game. Our forward line, though not clicking is still one of the highest goal scoring, if it wasn't for Leicester we would have one of the best defensive records as well.
I am really looking forward to the second half of the season as I can see progress.

Is it many though? I see a lot of posts saying we look miles better than we did. I see some other posts pointing out we are not doing any better in terms of points. As far as I can see both these points are true.

Are there a lot of people saying we still look as sluggish and clueless as we did last season? I cant say Ive noticed many. Ive certainly seen people question whether this is more the result of better management or the addition of new and better players to the squad. I think that is a legitimate question as well, especially since at the moment we are still feeling our way into things with our new manager, the team hasnt actually mastered what he is asking of them yet. So it isnt surprising we still look a bit disjointed, even if there has been some improvement.

It just seems like two factions are shouting each other down at times, even though they arent actually disagreeing.

 

[Ramshock]

Someone needs to stick a pin in his chair so that he finally gets up during games instead if sitting on his arse all game writing notes.

Why should he get up? Waving your arms about and shouting like an idiot doesnt change anything on the pitch. If the players are well drilled then they shouldnt need him up and screaming at them. Besides Giggsy and the other coaches do enough getting up

 

[dannyrhinos89]

I'm surprised at people who can't see any improvement. We look like scoring goals again, that's as big an improvement as any.

On the other hand we also look like we can concede everytime our opponents attack.

 

[Sarni]

I think LVG is still adapting to the league aswell.

At the minute he is happy setting up teams to sit back and contain, letting the opposition defense have the ball. Maybe in other countries their defenders were not so composed, or didn't play as many long balls forward. In England though (or atleast for us) this does not seem to work. We are at our best when hounding the opposition and giving them little time to rest.

Once we started doing that after the first goal had gone in, we were much the better team. If we sit off against Chelsea and City, they will just build up and play it around us. We need to get in their faces and disrupt the opposition.

How have you come to this conclusion? We've dominated pretty much all our games so far aside from small chunks of certain games, the only time we found ourselves defending deep was while down to 10 men against West Ham.

 

[#07]

Have to admit I could not understand what Van Gaal was trying to achieve with his team selection last night. Just when it seemed that we had settled on a certain shape with the 4-4-2 diamond, that was abandoned for a 4-5-1. Plus, after the game Van Gaal noted that the full backs were being exposed and West Brom were concentrating their attacks down the middle. So why not revert back to the diamond and give us more bodies in a central area to combat that? Also, Van Persie looked far more effective having someone to play off rather than being marooned between the West Brom centre halves. He showed more movement, dynamism and threat e.g. hitting the woodwork, once he had Falcao up their with him drawing players off him than for the whole hour or so before then.

 

[Dans]

Vidic and Ferdinand being available last season was hardly a blessing...

Only because he treated them in such a way that they were never going to perform to top level, which admittedly for Rio was far lower than Vidic. Personally I think we'd be a much better defensive proposition if Vidic was still here.

 

[Adebesi]

Someone needs to stick a pin in his chair so that he finally gets up during games instead if sitting on his arse all game writing notes.

I disagree with this. If the man wants to sit and take notes then let him. Its his process. You start messing with the process, things will only get worse. If he didnt find his notes helpful, if they didnt serve some purpose for him, he wouldnt take them. Maybe he is forgetful when passing his instructions to the team and needs the memory aids. Maybe he finds making notes helps him to clarify his thoughts. Whatever the reason, just let the man be.

 

[ItsEssexRob]

The variables are paramount, Nessun. It's an argument that those weaker teams we've faced thus far this season are in fact better than some of the teams we faced in the initial fixtures of last season, thus making an argument in and of itself that the start to our season has not been "relatively easy".

I think some of you are straining to do some explaining here. Theres no two ways about it, the fixtures you have had are easier than they could have been. All this 'no easy game' stuff was never branded about when we had easier starts and got derided about it.

 

[SalfordRed1960]

Is it many though? I see a lot of posts saying we look miles better than we did. I see some other posts pointing out we are not doing any better in terms of points. As far as I can see both these points are true.

Are there a lot of people saying we still look as sluggish and clueless as we did last season? I cant say Ive noticed many. Ive certainly seen people question whether this is more the result of better management or the addition of new and better players to the squad. I think that is a legitimate question as well, especially since at the moment we are still feeling our way into things with our new manager, the team hasnt actually mastered what he is asking of them yet. So it isnt surprising we still look a bit disjointed, even if there has been some improvement.

It just seems like two factions are shouting each other down at times, even though they arent actually disagreeing.

Read the match day comments. "Worse than Moyes", "LVG Clueless", "Boring to watch" blah blah

Seems because we can't beat well organized teams, that equates to us going backwards. Even the comments on other forums is bemusing. People expected the removal of Moyes to lead to instant success, as it was all his fault. Mistakes happen, but I believe they will be stopped.

 

[Dumbat12]

Only because he treated them in such a way that they were never going to perform to top level, which admittedly for Rio was far lower than Vidic. Personally I think we'd be a much better defensive proposition if Vidic was still here.

Vidic has basically costed Inter their last 5 matches. Vidic is doing more badly than Ferdinand at the moment and that's saying something.

 

[Adebesi]

Read the match day comments. "Worse than Moyes", "LVG Clueless", "Boring to watch" blah blah

Seems because we can't beat well organized teams, that equates to us going backwards. Even the comments on other forums is bemusing. People expected the removal of Moyes to lead to instant success, as it was all his fault. Mistakes happen, but I believe they will be stopped.

Yes, youve reminded me why I give that place a wide berth after games like yesterday. Unless I am drunk and miserable and want to wallow in the muppetry myself, which occasionally I do. Fair enough, maybe there are a lot of people saying that. But I dont see many in here now. With us, the rational, sensible posters.

 

[Speak]

Only because he treated them in such a way that they were never going to perform to top level, which admittedly for Rio was far lower than Vidic. Personally I think we'd be a much better defensive proposition if Vidic was still here.

I wouldn't say that's the only reason at all. They simply aren't/weren't what they were years ago. And their presence was doing more harm than good. I think Vidic would limit us, to be honest. Any high line would get cut apart with him in it, these days.

I think Moyes would have faired better without them, and van Gaal is fortunate that they were moved on this summer.

 

[SirFergie]

Read the match day comments. "Worse than Moyes", "LVG Clueless", "Boring to watch" blah blah

Seems because we can't beat well organized teams, that equates to us going backwards. Even the comments on other forums is bemusing. People expected the removal of Moyes to lead to instant success, as it was all his fault. Mistakes happen, but I believe they will be stopped.

You're not allowed to speak sense regarding that issue here.

We're heading backwards and we're playing the same old shite we were under Moyes. How anyone can say we've been boring this season is beyond me. Even when we've been beaten we've done it in style! I mean who else would let a 3-1 lead at Leicester become a 5-3 defeat? I rest my case.

 

[shaggy]

He's been completely shite results wise. The likes of Di Maria, Rooney, Van Persie, Falcao, Herrera, De Gea, Mata and spending £150 million or however much it was but we can't beat Swansea, West Brom, Leicester, Sunderland, Burnley... 3 of these teams will probably be in a relegation battle and are barely premiership standard. We have to be beating them the vast majority of the time.

 

[Adam-Utd]

How have you come to this conclusion? We've dominated pretty much all our games so far aside from small chunks of certain games, the only time we found ourselves defending deep was while down to 10 men against West Ham.

I am talking more of a tactical decision, rather than being pushed back and hammered. We are tactically trying to press in the middle of the pitch, rather than press like a Dortmund/Barcelona high press. Unfortunately though it doesn't seem to work in England. People are happy to kick it long and battle in our defense, which puts more pressure on the CB's.

Only when we started taking the game to the opposition did we relieve that pressure.

 

[JUPITER]

It's funny the way so many people used to complain about the press giving Moyes an easy ride, because he was British.

It seems more like the exact opposite is true and Van Gaal's continental sophistication and "philosophy" does far more to diffuse criticism (on here and in the press) than Moyes' nationality ever did when he was in charge.

This is just absolute, utter garbage - even for you.

The press have already thrust more attention and critique on LvG's tactics and performances than they did during the whole of Moyes' disastrous reign.

The 'old boy' network within the media shielded David Moyes from day 1 AND STILL DO! Just last week BBC Sport gave him an embarrassing promotional video under the guise of an 'exclusive interview' on the front page of their website. During the interview he was, as usual, treated with kid gloves and pampered to the point of it insulting the viewer's intelligence.

MOTD never, ever focussed on or even discussed Moyes' tactics, let alone critiqued them - all you would get were comments like "the players need to have a long, hard look at themselves", and "these players are letting their manager down". The media actively stressed all season that Moyes "must be given time". They excused and explained away any responsibility at all from him. I've never seen anything like it from the football media actually.

I remember AVB being 'rightly sacked' in the eyes of the British Sport media while Spurs sat above United in the league.

With LvG, his '3 at the back' experiment was focussed on and criticised thoroughly - indeed, he's regularly directly questioned in post match interviews about why he played whatever formation he did, last night being no exception. I've heard phrases from BBC pundits of 'I don't know what he's doing', 'the players look confused and have no idea what system they're playing' etc when we were still in September.

To suggest LvG is having an easier ride from the press than Moyes did (or indeed does) is laughable. In fact, I'm not sure that any manager has ever had an easier ride from modern media than David Moyes got at United, or ever will.

 

[jeff_goldblum]

I have faith in LVG to sort us out and get 4th, if only because our direct rivals have had a similarly poor start to the season. The only thing that really worries me is him saying that last night was our 'best display'. I thought we were poor offensively in comparison to previous outings (even those when we lost or drew) and looked pretty devoid of ideas through the middle until Fellaini and Falcao came on, which I suppose was to be expected what with Di Maria being shifted out wide, Mata and RVP in poor form and Herrera not 100% fit. I guess this is what the Dutch journalists meant in that jokey open letter when they said that what is out there on the pitch can often bear little resemblance to what Van Gaal says in his interviews.

Ultimately our offensive game plan was a little more functional and one-dimensional than usual but would have worked if not for some poor performances, both offensively and defensively. The level of service into the box from the left-hand side was good and we could easily have bagged a goal in the first half had Van Persie been on his game. As it was we were pretty ineffective until we stuck someone on who actually had a go at challenging Dawson and Lescott in the air and was willing/capable of putting in some legwork and battling for the ball. The likes of Fellaini and Falcao were far better in that respect than RVP and Mata and I think had Di Maria managed the full 90 minutes we'd have won the game with those three all on the field.

 

[legball]

I think some of you exaggerate how good the football is.

ADM plays some good stuff but you arent really scoring that many, and dont look particularly dangerous.

It might be better than some of the stuff under Moyes but its not better than anything under SAF.

It is, there's this myth that Ferguson always played eye-catching football all the time - not really the case. Our football this season is an improvement on what we have served up for the past 3 seasons atleast. We are playing well, and controlling games.

 

[Dans]

Vidic has basically costed Inter their last 5 matches. Vidic is doing more badly than Ferdinand at the moment and that's saying something.

He's been so bad? Blimey. Ok, haven't been following Serie A. Perhaps we are better off without him now after all. I still think he wasn't terrible last season though and essentially our defence should have been stronger with him in versus that which Van Gaal has now.

 

[Escobar]

I hope we soon make that one big step forward. You can feel it is about to come and that we will have more stability but it's just not there yet. Nevertheless, it is fair to say that we all excpected a better start to the season

 

[Van Piorsing]

He's just gonna have to make more serious, individual conversations with players about their future in this club soon. He was right about the balance and looks like he's gonna have to pay even more attention to planning new architecture of our defense.

More difficult decisions are probably imminent but to me the difficult ones are becoming more and more clear and logical to make. Tough matches ahead after supposedly easy opening fixtures.

I'm not even gonna compare him to Moyes after the clueless idiot destroyed our position in Europe and killed the balance completely.

 

[VP]

People continue to underestimate the sheer scale of Moyes' incompetence. He took a title winning squad to 7th place - it's unprecedented. LVG has had to rebuild this wreck while dealing with an absurd injury situation. Throw in the fact that's he comes in fresh from a fantastic WC and an all round impressive CV, it's easy to see why he's got the benefit of the doubt.

 

[Kakeru]

I'm surprised at people who can't see any improvement. We look like scoring goals again, that's as big an improvement as any.

Perhaps I am among those who would be willing to sacrifice some (not all, but some) of that attacking strength for any better applied concept of defending as a team. I wouldn't mind us winning 1-0 or 2-0 if we can see that improvement in how we suck the life out of the opposition, regardless of their level.

I read Balu's previous post. It's almost hard to conceive how LVG and Mourinho can be such polar opposites, and yet worked together. Building from front to the back is also contrary to what the old cliche in team sports would say about how to build a winning team.

 

[ghagua]

At some point very soon, we need to stop continuing to blame Moyes and start to hold LvG responsible for results. Yes, Moyes destroyed the team last season, but LvG has a new team to work with and plenty of time on the training ground to sort out his footballing philosophy. It's all good talking to the press, but what we need to see is results on the pitch.

 

[Drifter]

People continue to underestimate the sheer scale of Moyes' incompetence. He took a title winning squad to 7th place - it's unprecedented. LVG has had to rebuild this wreck while dealing with an absurd injury situation. Throw in the fact that's he comes in fresh from a fantastic WC and an all round impressive CV, it's easy to see why he's got the benefit of the doubt.

People seem to over exaggerate the impact Moyes had on the club.

 

[#07]

People seem to over exaggerate the impact Moyes had on the club.

Disagree. Even though I have criticised Van Gaal for last night I don't think Moyes' failure can be understated.

We don't have players like Schmeichel, Keane, Cantona etc. our team is mostly a bit soft. Moyes wrecked their confidence, I don't see many of them having the self-belief to come back from it.