Loris Karius appreciation thread

Any dangerous headbang will immediately has effect. And it needed medical examination procedures to conclude that. In the certain level, Physio/Medic could analyze the symptoms.

The dizzy feeling and unfocused eyes sight are one of them. It has an annoying effect not long after the incident happen.

Karius, played long enough after the headbang even he had a time to wave an apology to Liverpool fans, walking around with a teary but focus pupil.

It is been more than week, the doctor statement. And please, you can pay doctor handsomely even the good ones to make an opinion. But without complete medical test and result it is just another reason to avoid further humiliation.
 
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If it is true then it really is a shame for the guy.

On the other hand, it does make all his Liverpool mates abandoning him at full time all the funnier.
 
Jev said:
Uh, yes. If you're saying the doctor has diagnosed Karius with concussion just to please Liverpool then by definition you're questioning his integrity.
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I'm pretty sure the diagnosis was that it was "likely" and it was "possible" that it could have affected performance. Also it was 26 of 30 test's that came back positive. He's probably not done anything objectively shady and left the door firmly open to doubt. Just a big PR stunt.
 
Quick Liverpool. Call off the search for a new keeper!
 
Lash said:
I'm pretty sure the diagnosis was that it was "likely" and it was "possible" that it could have affected performance. Also it was 26 of 30 test's that came back positive. He's probably not done anything objectively shady and left the door firmly open to doubt. Just a big PR stunt.
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The diagnosis is definitive: "[...] we have concluded that Mr. Karius sustained a concussion during the match May 26, 2018."

They do say it's 'possible' that it affected his performance. That's always going to be speculative. Can a concussion cause you to make the kinds of mistakes Karius made? Yes. Can we hereby conclude with conviction that Karius made the mistakes because of his concussion and wouldn't have made them without? No.

(26 out of 30 is a lot).
 
Trizy said:
Exactly. Looking for any excuse now and more reasons to try blame Ramos :lol:
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If there was ever a player I would luv United to bring in ever in his twilight years it would be Ramos.


So much salty tears would be had lol
 
This is just Liverpool trying to make sure they can get 2m for him in the Summer.
 
I feel sorry for him but the concussion diagnosis merely shifts the blame of Karius’ mistakes from the goals to his own decision making.

Kramer raised awareness of his stuggkes in the World Cup final in 2014 and Karius should have done the same. The goals and his errors in executing simple actions for them become understandable. To not raise awareness of his condition becomes the biggest mistake he made on that night.
 
FC Ronaldo said:
I feel sorry for him but the concussion diagnosis merely shifts the blame of Karius’ mistakes from the goals to his own decision making.

Kramer raised awareness of his stuggkes in the World Cup final in 2014 and Karius should have done the same. The goals and his errors in executing simple actions for them become understandable. To not raise awareness of his condition becomes the biggest mistake he made on that night.
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It even goes as far as portraying (if they go down that road and use that excuse) as a selfish player who put his personal need to play the final ahead of what was best for the club. It makes it even worse than having a shitty performance on the biggest club stage
 
FC Ronaldo said:
I feel sorry for him but the concussion diagnosis merely shifts the blame of Karius’ mistakes from the goals to his own decision making.

Kramer raised awareness of his stuggkes in the World Cup final in 2014 and Karius should have done the same. The goals and his errors in executing simple actions for them become understandable. To not raise awareness of his condition becomes the biggest mistake he made on that night.
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kouroux said:
It even goes as far as portraying (if they go down that road and use that excuse) as a selfish player who put his personal need to play the final ahead of what was best for the club. It makes it even worse than having a shitty performance on the biggest club stage
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It's perfectly possible to suffer a concussion and not realize it yourself.
 
RobinLFC said:
Yeah it's not like they have an oath to adhere to or something. I don't see what we'd gain by spreading false information, and it would be stupid to go to such lengths to do so, especially by one of the best hospitals in the USA.
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Jev said:
The amount of people in this thread ready to believe a professional doctor would wrongly diagnose someone in order to save Liverpool's faces is beyond comprehension.

What's the idea here? That Liverpool paid a medical expert from a renowned hospital to say Karius had a concussion? How can you be so incredibly stupid and ignorant?
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The president of the good ol U S of A has used dodgy medical assessments while he was president. So if he can do it, you can be damn sure an American owning a football club can do it too. Most likely making sure that an asset doesn’t lose all value.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
An over-used word but the need to a) do a retrospective review of the match footage to come up with a sketchy diagnosis to excuse a shit performance and b) release the medical report to the media is one of the most embarrassing things I’ve seen/heard in football.
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If he was indeed concussed - which it seems is the definitive diagnosis, why would it not be released to the media? Some need to take off their tinfoil hats.
 
Jev said:
No. What happened is they paid a doctor to perform tests on Karius, and based on those tests the doctor concluded that Karius had suffered a concussion.


Why? You don't think it changes how we should perceive Karius's performance that he had suffered a concussion?



I'm sure a professional, well-respected doctor has too much integrity to put forth a diagnosis he doesn't really believe in.


Where do you see this? Are you referring to the fact that they reviewed game footage? It would make sense for doctors to review the incident whenever they had the chance. I once suffered a concussion on my bicycle; if that had been filmed I'm pretty sure the doctors would have asked to see the tape in order to qualify their diagnosis.
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Here's the full statement, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.
“We have received numerous calls today regarding the health status of Liverpool goalkeeper Loris Karius. With Mr. Karius’s permission, we are providing information about his medical situation in an effort to prevent, where possible, the dissemination of incomplete or erroneous information.

“On May 31, 2018 Mr. Karius underwent a comprehensive examination by Dr. Ross Zafonte and Dr. Lenore Herget in Boston at Massachusetts General Hospital and Spaulding Rehabilitation Hospital.

“After carefully reviewing game film and integrating a detailed history – including his reported present and immediate post-contact subjective symptoms – physical examination and objective metrics, we have concluded that Mr. Karius sustained a concussion during the match May 26, 2018.

“At the time of our evaluation, Mr. Karius’s principal residual symptoms and objective signs suggested that visual spatial dysfunction existed and likely occurred immediately following the event. Additional symptomatic and objectively noted areas of dysfunction also persisted. It could be possible that such deficits would affect performance.

“We also note that Mr. Karius has reported significant and steady improvement since the concussive event, and we expect him to make a full recovery based on the results of the examination. We expect that with treatment and by following prescribed activity protocols he will continue to improve. We have encouraged vigilance and an emphasis on safety in his eventual return to full activity.”
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The bit in bold is highly speculative but gets to the nub of what is going on there. The whole thing is all about finding an explanation for his gaffs on the night. Which is weird as feck. Something else that's weird as feck is why they decided to fly someone with a head injury across the fecking Atlantic to get checked out!
 
RobinLFC said:
It's perfectly possible to suffer a concussion and not realize it yourself.
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Of course. I wasn’t meaning to stick the boot into him like some are or poking further fun, just offering another view from an objective angle. I feel sorry for him still because it has happened to every goalkeeper at some point in their careers. Sadly for him, it was in the biggest game of his career to date.
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Here's the full statement, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.


The bit in bold is highly speculative but gets to the nub of what is going on there. The whole thing is all about finding an explanation for his gaffs on the night. Which is weird as feck. Something else that's weird as feck is why they decided to fly someone with a head injury across the fecking Atlantic to get checked out!
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He was already in California for vacations. I don't know the entire story ofcourse but can imagine him feeling the after effects of the concussion and then being reported by the club to go to Boston for checkups.
 
It's also worth noting that diagnosing concussion five days after the event is also highly unusual. Rugby is a sport that deals with a lot of concussions (much more than football) and their HIA protocol defines a "late diagnosis" as one that happens 36-48 hours after the injury. Why the hell did Karius have to wait so long for his diagnosis?!
 
kouroux said:
That is why precautions can be taken and players subbed out as soon as they have a serious blow to the head. You don't need for a full diagnosis to protect your player
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Definitely agree with that, although it will be hard to draw a line when it's required and when it's not. I doubt Egypt is willing to take off Salah if he gets a simple knock on the head, same for Portugal with Ronaldo or Argentina with Messi.
 
RobinLFC said:
Definitely agree with that, although it will be hard to draw a line when it's required and when it's not. I doubt Egypt is willing to take off Salah if he gets a simple knock on the head, same for Portugal with Ronaldo or Argentina with Messi.
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All important players but we're talking about Karius, a player barely if not all better than Mignolet.
 
Adisa said:
What was the point of issuing the statement?
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I know the club does come off as looking like making excuses but I think it's the right move to protect their player after what was a horrible night for him, followed by worse ones with the threats he was receiving online and general ridicule. If he did suffer a concussion during the game then it's best to atleast let their own fans know so that the vitrol against Karius may subside a bit.
 
Jev said:
The diagnosis is definitive: "[...] we have concluded that Mr. Karius sustained a concussion during the match May 26, 2018."

They do say it's 'possible' that it affected his performance. That's always going to be speculative. Can a concussion cause you to make the kinds of mistakes Karius made? Yes. Can we hereby conclude with conviction that Karius made the mistakes because of his concussion and wouldn't have made them without? No.

(26 out of 30 is a lot).
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Why would a hospital say this to if they hadn’t bee paid handsomely to do so. They don’t put out a statement like this every time someone walks in with a concussion.
You don’t hear statements like this every time a player gets injured.

This is face saving pure and simple.
 
I wonder why people still argue. If you expect a sympathy and understanding towards a Liverpool player on a Utd forum you better also get your head checked. If there's a possibility to slate the guy and the club 99% will use it, reasonable or not.
 
I neither like L´Pool nor Karius but the amount of speculation on both sides here is hilarious. People really saying that an expert like Dr. Zafonte was paid by L´Pool to diagnose something from nothing to excuse Karius :wenger: It doesn´t matter what you people here think, he is the concussion expert and the tests were clearly. Does this mean the concussion was responsible foe the brainfarts ? I don´t think so. Does this mean it was less comical ? Not at all. Does this mean we have to blame Ramos "even more" ? How can you blame Ramos even more, this is impossible. He is an absolute scumbag and if you watch the scene again it was absolute not necessary to hit Karius with the elbow even after the brutal push that was a peno if you beliefe some people here.
 
Too late he will forever be known as the worst keeper ever.
 
Why did he go and get tested whilst he was on holiday?

If there was any sign of a concussion and Liverpools medical staff didn't notice nor deal with it, then they are buffoons.

I feel sorry for him if he'd had a concussion as I've had a few (actually the reason I stopped playing amateur football).
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Here's the full statement, for anyone who hasn't seen it yet.


The bit in bold is highly speculative but gets to the nub of what is going on there. The whole thing is all about finding an explanation for his gaffs on the night. Which is weird as feck. Something else that's weird as feck is why they decided to fly someone with a head injury across the fecking Atlantic to get checked out!
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They're stating that this is their conclusion based on medical evaluation. I don't see how that's speculative.

Pogue Mahone said:
It's also worth noting that diagnosing concussion five days after the event is also highly unusual. Rugby is a sport that deals with a lot of concussions (much more than football) and their HIA protocol defines a "late diagnosis" as one that happens 36-48 hours after the injury. Why the hell did Karius have to wait so long for his diagnosis?!
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Is it unusual? From what I've read, the symptoms of concussion can often take days to appear.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
They're stating that this is their conclusion based on medical evaluation. I don't see how that's speculative.



Is it unusual? From what I've read, the symptoms of concussion can often take days to appear.
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The speculative bit is when they start discussing his performance.

If there’s any suspicion at all of a significant head injury you should get assessed straight away. Anyway, according to that medical report his symptoms first became noticeable during the CL final. So this isn’t about someone who felt absolutely fine for the first few days after a bang on the head.
 
Maybe he also had concussion when he let the ball slip through his hands at Anfield after Kolarov's speculative shot in the semi-final against Roma.

That was a Bale trial run for the final. It was 0-0 and the ball hit the bar. But then Liverpool went on the rampage and all was forgotten.

We all knew Karuis was a 'too cool for the details' kind of goalkeeper well before the final. Some of the dirty work appears beneath him. The blend of casualness and arrogance can always be lethal.

The final itself meant he should have got of the field as soon as possible. The blubbering and apologies are too hard to take for some Liverpool fans, right after such a painful defeat. I would have reacted with criticism for my goalkeeper if he'd done the same.

As for the well-dressed quacks giving a diagnosis of concussion, there's about as much to believe about that as there as is Klopp's vote of confidence for his goalkeeper.

Both are highly suspect.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
They're stating that this is their conclusion based on medical evaluation. I don't see how that's speculative.



Is it unusual? From what I've read, the symptoms of concussion can often take days to appear.
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I mean, he's literally just provided you with a link to the World Rugby Head Injury Assessment Criteria that states 36-48 hours is a late diagnosis, so I'm going to go with a firm yes on that one unless you've got a link to the things you've read that say otherwise. Regardless, the official statement regarding Karius states that he displayed symptoms during the final and that these may have affected his performance, which is where I think Pogue is coming from when he says it's subjective, and renders any discussion of how long he took to display symptoms as redundant. It's a bit weird that they waited 5 days to fly him across the globe to get checked for concussion when I'm assuming a hospital anywhere between Kiev and Liverpool could have done the exact same job much sooner.


I've seen people saying he might not have known he had concussion, which is fair enough because it's the type of injury where you might not know immediately, but at the very least, if the blow was hard enough to cause concussion, he knew he'd been hit in the head and should have been after some sort of medical attention. The fact that his reaction to the incident was to almost immediately look over at the official behind the goal/linesman and mime being elbowed, before hopping to his feet and continuing the discussion with the ref made it look like he was hamming it up a bit at the time to try and draw some sort of punishment for Ramos, which did neither him or Liverpool any favours if he was suffering from the visual spatial dysfunction diagnosed in the US.

Concussion or not, it all looks a bit weird and desperate.
 
Jev said:
The diagnosis is definitive: "[...] we have concluded that Mr. Karius sustained a concussion during the match May 26, 2018."

They do say it's 'possible' that it affected his performance. That's always going to be speculative. Can a concussion cause you to make the kinds of mistakes Karius made? Yes. Can we hereby conclude with conviction that Karius made the mistakes because of his concussion and wouldn't have made them without? No.

(26 out of 30 is a lot).
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Sorry i got the quote wrong it was "likely" that it was felt immediately.

That's why it's a pointless press release. It literally has no bearing apart from being a PR stunt to try and quell the media storm about him, although it just brings up a litany of failures from Liverpool's side as well in failing to address a concussion properly.
 
Alex99 said:
I mean, he's literally just provided you with a link to the World Rugby Head Injury Assessment Criteria that states 36-48 hours is a late diagnosis, so I'm going to go with a firm yes on that one unless you've got a link to the things you've read that say otherwise. Regardless, the official statement regarding Karius states that he displayed symptoms during the final and that these may have affected his performance, which is where I think Pogue is coming from when he says it's subjective, and renders any discussion of how long he took to display symptoms as redundant. It's a bit weird that they waited 5 days to fly him across the globe to get checked for concussion when I'm assuming a hospital anywhere between Kiev and Liverpool could have done the exact same job much sooner.


I've seen people saying he might not have known he had concussion, which is fair enough because it's the type of injury where you might not know immediately, but at the very least, if the blow was hard enough to cause concussion, he knew he'd been hit in the head and should have been after some sort of medical attention. The fact that his reaction to the incident was to almost immediately look over at the official behind the goal/linesman and mime being elbowed, before hopping to his feet and continuing the discussion with the ref made it look like he was hamming it up a bit at the time to try and draw some sort of punishment for Ramos, which did neither him or Liverpool any favours if he was suffering from the visual spatial dysfunction diagnosed in the US.

Concussion or not, it all looks a bit weird and desperate.
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Various medical websites state that symptoms can appear hours/days later. There have also been numerous cases of undiagnosed concussions in the NFL, which over time are documented to have contributed to the deaths of various athletes, based on their postmortems. So yeah, it's definitely not unusual.

It's calling an apple an apple. His career at Liverpool is still more or less finished, despite this diagnosis. Nobody is using it as an excuse - but I don't see why quite a significant piece of news regarding a high profile incident like this would be kept from the public eye.
 
I am asking again. Did they mention grade of concussion? If it was grade 1 (mild) then the debate is pointless. I don't see the grade mentioned in any press report.
 
KM said:
This is the error against Roma I'm talking about.
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My mate and I were talking after the final blunder than Karius has a history of being a swivel finger. Against Roma he got lucky. Concussion or no concussion I don't feel assured when he is minding the net. He got a good streak this season, but overall I have doubts.

Allison or Oblak needed in any case.
 
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