Loris Karius appreciation thread

[NinjaFletch]

Various medical websites state that symptoms can appear hours/days later. There have also been numerous cases of undiagnosed concussions in the NFL, which over time are documented to have contributed to the deaths of various athletes, based on their postmortems. So yeah, it's definitely not unusual.

It's calling an apple an apple. His career at Liverpool is still more or less finished, despite this diagnosis. Nobody is using it as an excuse - but I don't see why quite a significant piece of news regarding a high profile incident like this would be kept from the public eye.

But, whilst that may or may not be true, it is unusual, unless you can find a plethora of examples to the contrary, to release to the papers a week after the fact that the event occurred. I can not think of any precedent for this at all.

Personally, I find it a bit odd. On a personal level I think it's probably a good thing for Karius, and he may find it easier to live with what happened, but on a professional level I find it a bit odd that Liverpool paid to fly Karius around the globe to a hospital affiliated with their owner to proudly announce to the world that they lost a Champion's League final not because of an individual mistake but because of absolute negligence on behalf of their medical staff and a dereliction of their duty with regards to player safety.

 

[Di Maria's angel]

He should have just gone up to Klopp and said "Mr Klopp, I don't feel so good".

 

[Javi]

Personally, I find it a bit odd. On a personal level I think it's probably a good thing for Karius, and he may find it easier to live with what happened, but on a professional level I find it a bit odd that Liverpool paid to fly Karius around the globe to a hospital affiliated with their owner to proudly announce to the world that they lost a Champion's League final not because of an individual mistake but because of absolute negligence on behalf of their medical staff and a dereliction of their duty with regards to player safety.

As long as it helps the player to get on with his football career (which Liverpool have an interest in also) I don't see what the downside is. Odd procedure doesn't count.

 

[Eckers99]

Would explain his sub-par attempt at forcing tears.

 

[NinjaFletch]

As long as it helps the player to get on with his football career (which Liverpool have an interest in also) I don't see what the downside is. Odd procedure doesn't count.

I don't really disagree, but I do find it quite weird how Liverpool (and their fans on the internet mostly) are trying to act how this isn't more damning for Liverpool than their keeper just making mistakes.

Not that Liverpool are the only club to blame for a, lets say, blasé attitude to concussion so lets hope that a high profile incident where it costs a club dearly might convince the others to act.

 

[Javi]

I don't really disagree, but I do find it quite weird how Liverpool (and their fans on the internet mostly) are trying to act how this isn't more damning for Liverpool than their keeper just making mistakes.

Not that Liverpool are the only club to blame for a, lets say, blasé attitude to concussion so lets hope that a high profile incident where it costs a club dearly might convince the others to act.

Is this really what they are doing? To me the obvious concern from Liverpools pov is for the players mental health and his market value. With the statement they are adressing just that and I don't see anything wrong with it prima facie. What seems far fetchedis to attribute some sort of justification/explanation motive for the defeat to this story, but then again I haven't really followed club statements and I hope you can fill me in with that.

 

[Alex99]

Various medical websites state that symptoms can appear hours/days later. There have also been numerous cases of undiagnosed concussions in the NFL, which over time are documented to have contributed to the deaths of various athletes, based on their postmortems. So yeah, it's definitely not unusual.

It's calling an apple an apple. His career at Liverpool is still more or less finished, despite this diagnosis. Nobody is using it as an excuse - but I don't see why quite a significant piece of news regarding a high profile incident like this would be kept from the public eye.

Documented late displaying of symptoms doesn't mean that late displaying of symptoms isn't unusual. I know about the NFL concussion stuff, but that's more due to medical negligence in even attempting a proper diagnosis than the players not displaying symptoms.

Is this really what they are doing? To me the obvious concern from Liverpools pov is for the players mental health and his market value. With the statement they are adressing just that and I don't see anything wrong with it prima facie. What seems far fetched to me is to attribute some sort of justification/explanation motive for the defeat to this story, but then again I haven't really followed club statements and I hope you can fill me in with that.

The official statement came from a doctor working at a hospital of which Liverpool's owner is a trustee, and that statement follows the diagnosis of concussion and visual spatial dysfunction with confirmation that the concussion occurred during the final and that it may have affected his performance. The official statement came as close to saying "Karius had concussion and that's why he was shit" without actually saying it.

 

[golden_blunder]

What do liverpool hope to gain from this?

Aside from

Liverpool fan groups were last night calling for a replay of the Champions League final after Loris Karius' concussion.

 

[Alex99]

What do liverpool hope to gain from this?

Aside from

Liverpool fan groups were last night calling for a replay of the Champions League final after Loris Karius' concussion.

They're trying to create the impression that Liverpool didn't lose the CL final.

The initial outrage was all focused on Salah, and they rode the wave of that until recently, when common sense started to prevail and people realised that: a) Salah injured the other arm, and b) it's absolutely laughable to suggest that Ramos spent the build to the CL final practising running judo throws and MMA submission holds on the off-chance he got a chance to tangle with Salah.

Then it seems they've seen a few clips on Twitter of the Karius/Ramos collision and have decided to run with that, which is how we've ended up here, with them flying him halfway across the world 5 days after the fact, to a hospital in which their owner has a vested interest, so they can release a statement that gets as close to saying "we lost because our keeper had concussion" without actually saying it. Of course they're going to ignore that it was van Dijk that pushed Ramos, that Karius was back on his feet almost immediately afterwards arguing with officials, and that ultimately, if he had suffered concussion, it is the Liverpool medical team that is responsible for dealing with it and making the call to replace him with the reserve GK.

It deflects attention from the fact that Klopp has now lost 6 successive finals, and that they once again failed to win anything, securing 4th on the final day, and it pretty much gives their fanbase an official nod to consider Liverpool the true European Champions, all while providing some much needed damage limitation on Karius' transfer value.

At risk of going a bit tin-foil hat, the release of the statement has also come suspiciously close to the publication of a number of transfer rumours linking supposed Liverpool GK target Allison with a move to Real Madrid, and they've perhaps realised they may be stuck with Karius for a bit longer than they'd hoped and need to keep his morale slightly higher than absolute rock bottom.

 

[kouroux]

Would explain his sub-par attempt at forcing tears.

 

[montpelier]

Do you any of you think trying to 'exonerate' him like this kinda works? It supports the player too.

And, it's also in line with the Klopp idea that there is nearly always outside factors that makes them lose.

 

[Ramshock]

theres always an excuse with this lot. I mean yeah if it happened then fair play but its never ever cut and dry with the dippers when they lose big matches.

 

[Alex99]

Do you any of you think trying to 'exonerate' him like this kinda works? It supports the player too.

And, it's also in line with the Klopp idea that there is nearly always outside factors that makes them lose.

Not really. A lot of Liverpool fans had already decided that the result was invalid because Ramos tried to maim Salah, so their minds won't have been changed. The rest have already accepted the result and moved on.

No rational fan of any other team is swayed by it, and the irrational ones were on the Ramos killed Salah train anyway.

It's just damage limitation on Karius' transfer value/a small ego boost should they fail to sell him, and a convenient distraction from what was ultimately another season without a trophy under Mr. "a title within 3 years".

I'm finding it quite amusing how near enough every Liverpool fan was 100% on board with Karius actually just being a shit, error-prone keeper, until the moment a statement is released saying he had concussion and that affected him, and now he's still a shit, error-prone keeper, but these specific match-costing errors in their biggest match in a decade were caused by something else, and not him being a shit, error-prone keeper, and it is in fact, significant news relating to a high profile incident.

 

[Alex99]

There is also the added element, of course, that Karius was on the receiving end of an absolute shit ton of abuse from Liverpool supporters, who now, after the release of this statement, are giving it "we was fucccchhhin' robbed la, karius had concussion YAWN la, replay the final"

 

[brian017]

I got a Sky News notification about this last night. Is this that newsworthy outside the sporting world?

 

[montpelier]

I got a Sky News notification about this last night. Is this that newsworthy outside the sporting world?

it was on our main news last night (in England I mean)

 

[montpelier]

There is also the added element, of course, that Karius was on the receiving end of an absolute shit ton of abuse from Liverpool supporters, who now, after the release of this statement, are giving it "we was fucccchhhin' robbed la, karius had concussion YAWN la, replay the final"

their YAWN guff was getting a bit of stick post-game too, maybe they sensed a bit of 'brand-jeopardy' too (quite a nice tinfoil hat I found this, )

it's like someone has decided to move on this though, maybe

(we don't know for sure, he might have gotten ill)

 

[Infordin]

How much money did Klopp spend on this guy? 5 million?

He didn’t live up to expectations and has to be replaced. Not a big deal, it happens all the time. That’s what makes Klopp’s stubbornness all the more baffling.

 

[Shiva87]

Feel sad for the guy. Its clear that he was out of sorts that night. If there was a concussion, the Liverpool support staff should have discovered it. There is no excuse for the best paid and highly qualified trainers and medics to fail to see a concussion which impacts spatial awareness.

If anything, this news reflects poorly on Liverpool and their injury identification and management system. Don't get the outcry for Ramos being a dirty player (a fact which is well known to everyone except RM fans), or the match to be replayed.

 

[Klopper76]

Not really. A lot of Liverpool fans had already decided that the result was invalid because Ramos tried to maim Salah, so their minds won't have been changed. The rest have already accepted the result and moved on.

No rational fan of any other team is swayed by it, and the irrational ones were on the Ramos killed Salah train anyway.

It's just damage limitation on Karius' transfer value/a small ego boost should they fail to sell him, and a convenient distraction from what was ultimately another season without a trophy under Mr. "a title within 3 years".

I'm finding it quite amusing how near enough every Liverpool fan was 100% on board with Karius actually just being a shit, error-prone keeper, until the moment a statement is released saying he had concussion and that affected him, and now he's still a shit, error-prone keeper, but these specific match-costing errors in their biggest match in a decade were caused by something else, and not him being a shit, error-prone keeper, and it is in fact, significant news relating to a high profile incident.

Four years. He said he hoped to win a title in four years. Not an unreasonable thing to say.

I don’t think Karius is a shit keeper either. I think the bizarre nature of the first error hurt his confidence and led to the second one. He hadn’t made a serious error in god knows how long prior to the final. Any sensible person knows that.

 

[RobinLFC]

There is also the added element, of course, that Karius was on the receiving end of an absolute shit ton of abuse from Liverpool supporters, who now, after the release of this statement, are giving it "we was fucccchhhin' robbed la, karius had concussion YAWN la, replay the final"

Your hatred of LFC shines through so much in this thread that it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

I've also seen no Liverpool fans on here abusing Ramos or blaming the result on Salah's injury.

 

[Alex99]

Four years. He said he hoped to win a title in four years. Not an unreasonable thing to say.

I don’t think Karius is a shit keeper either. I think the bizarre nature of the first error hurt his confidence and led to the second one. He hadn’t made a serious error in god knows how long prior to the final. Any sensible person knows that.

Four years then. Liverpool League Cup winners 2019.

He's clearly not properly shit, but he's absolutely nowhere near the calibre you require. He might not have made a costly error, but he made almost the exact same error as the third goal in the semi-final, but got away with it because you trounced Roma and it was forgotten about.

Your hatred of LFC shines through so much in this thread that it's hard to take anything you say seriously.

I've also seen no Liverpool fans on here abusing Ramos or blaming the result on Salah's injury.

Manchester United fan it clear and obvious dislike for Liverpool shocker.

Also didn't realise that all Liverpool fans were contained on here, a Manchester United forum.

 

[GatoLoco]

Was Karius popular for making many mistakes before the final? I've seen a few ones in youtube (the goal kick that ends in a corner is terrible), but I don't know if he made them too often. It just surprised me to see Gullit say that his son had predicted them before the game.

http://www.foxsports.co.id/videos/reaction-to-karius-mistakes-is-very-sad-gullit/

In any case I think it's legit that the player tries to protect himself from critics. This is a very cruel sport at times.

 

[RobinLFC]

Manchester United fan it clear and obvious dislike for Liverpool shocker.

Also didn't realise that all Liverpool fans were contained on here, a Manchester United forum.

I also dislike United but that doesn't mean I can't try to at least stay objective about them.

And of course not but it's probably a more sensible part of our fan base, rather than the ones on RAWK or those commenting on Daily Mail articles and the likes.

 

[Klopper76]

I also dislike United but that doesn't mean I can't try to at least stay objective about them.

And of course not but it's probably a more sensible part of our fan base, rather than the ones on RAWK or those commenting on Daily Mail articles and the likes.

I haven’t seen or heard a Liverpool fan anywhere ask for the game to be replayed. I don’t even know where that nonsense started.

 

[montpelier]

I haven’t seen or heard a Liverpool fan anywhere ask for the game to be replayed. I don’t even know where that nonsense started.

I posted it quire early in the Mail comments section. It could have gained some traction from there.

 

[Fully Fledged]

theres always an excuse with this lot. I mean yeah if it happened then fair play but its never ever cut and dry with the dippers when they lose big matches.

There wasn’t enough wind and the pitch was too wet.

 

[Alex99]

I also dislike United but that doesn't mean I can't try to at least stay objective about them.

And of course not but it's probably a more sensible part of our fan base, rather than the ones on RAWK or those commenting on Daily Mail articles and the likes.

Right, and I wasn't talking about the more sensible ones, but the vocal hordes on Twitter, RAWK and various news site comments sections.

I haven’t seen or heard a Liverpool fan anywhere ask for the game to be replayed. I don’t even know where that nonsense started.

Either the Mail comments section or twitter. Don't know which came first but there's a decent number who if they aren't asking for a replay, are at least making noise about the result being void. Most of the nonsense is still centred on Ramos receiving some sort of ban/fine/prison sentence though.

 

[Ban]

Apparently Steven Gerrard had an ingrown toenail cause of which he slipped and gave City the title. More to follow.

 

[Klopper76]

Right, and I wasn't talking about the more sensible ones, but the vocal hordes on Twitter, RAWK and various news site comments sections.



Either the Mail comments section or twitter. Don't know which came first but there's a decent number who if they aren't asking for a replay, are at least making noise about the result being void. Most of the nonsense is still centred on Ramos receiving some sort of ban/fine/prison sentence though.

Well I’ve seen nothing on Twitter so it must be from the Daily Mail comments section.

Always a solid source of evidence.

 

[haram]

Four years. He said he hoped to win a title in four years. Not an unreasonable thing to say.

I don’t think Karius is a shit keeper either. I think the bizarre nature of the first error hurt his confidence and led to the second one. He hadn’t made a serious error in god knows how long prior to the final. Any sensible person knows that.

He almost did the same vs City in the semis as well. It hit the bar though.

Edit - semi was against Roma actually.

 

[Alex99]

Well I’ve seen nothing on Twitter so it must be from the Daily Mail comments section.

Always a solid source of evidence.

You're obviously blessed with a more sane timeline than me then

 

[Klopper76]

You're obviously blessed with a more sane timeline than me then

Can you post a couple of the Tweets? I’m genuinely interested to see what they’re saying. I can’t believe any sane person thinks it’s reasonable to expect a replay.

 

[GatoLoco]

Ramos: "All I'm missing is for Firmino to say he got a cold because a bead of my sweat landed on him"

 

[manunited1919]

I actually feel sorry for Karius, as a human being. He has had to bear the whole weight of the loss ALONE, and has had to WALK ALONE a long distance until he found a good Doctor to help him out in Boston.

He must have been referred to this Dr by one of the psychologists he has visited after not being cope with the heavy weight ALONE.

 

[Minimalist]

Karius saying this privately to Klopp or whoever is fine. It's still stupid as feck if he knew he was hurt and didn't tell anyone before the errors happened.

What is pathetic is making it public (whoever that decision belongs to) like he's some sort of victim.

 

[Alex99]

Can you post a couple of the Tweets? I’m genuinely interested to see what they’re saying. I can’t believe any sane person thinks it’s reasonable to expect a replay.

I've not seen a great deal about a replay on twitter to be fair, but I have seen at least two petition links, this being the latest: https://www.change.org/p/uefa-a-match-replay-real-madrid-vs-liverpool

That petition was initially shared by this twitter account but they've since deleted the tweet: https://twitter.com/AnfieldWatch/

They're not tweets from people I follow, but things that have been retweeted on there by united fans taking the piss, although having looked at a couple, some are clearly not actual Liverpool fans.

Here's one I saw earlier, but a glance at his timeline would suggest he's not entirely serious (although he does seem to believe that Ramos deliberately injured Karius which muddies things slightly).



The worst, as always, is in comments sections of the Mail, Mirror, etc but again it's hard to verify whether they're actually Liverpool fans or people pretending to be Liverpool fans. The BBC seems to have a few loons on all sides too but usually their comments get deleted after a few hours. Fortunately I tend to avoid those sites. I do suspect that after a very small number had a bit of whinge about it and started a couple of stupid petitions for a handful of idiots to latch on to, oppo fans picked up on it and now it's one of those where there's more people complaining about Liverpool fans demanding it than there are Liverpool fans actually demanding it.

 

[Schmeichel's Cartwheel]

This myth needs to die. Almost every single one of them did the usual "we win together we lose together" thing on social media after the game, everyone backed him and shared the blame for defeat. It is perfectly, 100% normal to take a few minutes for yourself right after the last whistle after a (probably devestating for most) CL final defeat.

On topic: I guess it's probably true, but it doesn't matter anymore nor will it change anything so let's just move on and take one thing away from the story, i.e. that head injuries need to be monitored and examined more carefully in football. I don't get the Ramos hate either, he is one of the biggest cnuts currently playing but he did nothing wrong in the whole final imo.

Posting a message of support & solidarity (which lets be honest they were probably told to post) doesn't really excuse leaving the poor guy crying alone moments after what was probably the most humiliating moment of his life. When your club slogan is "you'll never walk alone" it looks hypocritical, especially considering the majority of the fans turned against him also.

 

[cjj]

Haha, I was foolishly about to respond to the scouser's drivel but then I read this and know I can't top it. Totally nailed it. Social media ffs

Some of the stuff I read from them is clinical level delusion

You are right. No one went near him at the final whistle. Just because they pushed on social media later, likely when they have been told to do so, means nothing.

I know right? Most of them have PR companies manage their social media, too - its a measure of nothing

 

[cjj]

On sky sports:

"Egyptian lawyer Bassem Wahba launched a €1bn (£873m) lawsuit against Ramos, amid fears Salah may be unable to represent his national side in the 2018 World Cup."

There are no words for that level of interbreeding...