Loris Karius appreciation thread

The thing is... it’s not like diagnosing a concussion is easy. It’s the sort of thing where the doctors could very easily ask him some questions and if he says that he felt a bit dizzy or fuzzy after the incident with Ramos... they’ll say ‘yep, that’s concussion’.

I could go to a doctor and get diagnosed with concussion tomorrow if I wanted... even though I am absolutely fine.
 
crossy1686 said:
Absolute and utter bollocks.

This is an attempt to save his career and also help Liverpool save face after being priced out for Alisson and ultimately end up end with Karius starting in goal next season.
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Yeah, would be a typical move for the accomplished dr. Ross Zafonte, to risk his career and reputation as one of the greatest experts there is, in regards to traumatic brain injuries. He would love nothing more than risking everything for Karius.
 
ZupZup said:
The thing is... it’s not like diagnosing a concussion is easy. It’s the sort of thing where the doctors could very easily ask him some questions and if he says that he felt a bit dizzy or fuzzy after the incident with Ramos... they’ll say ‘yep, that’s concussion’.

I could go to a doctor and get diagnosed with concussion tomorrow if I wanted... even though I am absolutely fine.
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Yeah, but did you make a glorious spectacle of yourself on a global stage? Thought not.
 
User 72192 said:
I find it extremely strange that somehow doctors several days after the indcident are able to diagnose a concussion, but doctors who were there immediately didn't.
You know how they diagnose stuff like that in hindsight? By asking several certain questions, that's about it. Pathetic move imo.
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To call 30 tests, 26 of which indicated a concussion, done by one of the biggest expertes there is on the field, strange and call the "move" "pathetic"is indeed that: pathetic. Karius had an injury. The injury likely caused the mistakes. Why is this so difficult to accept for some? Why do some act like it's unlikely to have happened this way? It's the most obvious explanation for what happend, supported by respected experts on the field and thus probably and most likely the truth. Get over it.
 
The conspiracy theories in this thread being used as an excuse so people can still bash Karius are proper weird. These are top medical professionals, they're not going to make a diagnosis out of thin air to save face.

Horrible luck all round. I don't think it's fair to blame the club's medical staff either. The incident happened miles away from the touchline and if he doesn't realise he's concussed and therefore doesn't flag it up how are the staff supposed to know to examine him. This is a case for the American sports' use of impartial concussion spotters looking at replays imo. Football is shamefully behind on these issues.
 
HTG said:
Yeah, would be a typical move for the accomplished dr. Ross Zafonte, to risk his career and reputation as one of the greatest experts there is, in regards to traumatic brain injuries. He would love nothing more than risking everything for Karius.
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I partied with the distinguished Dr. Ross Zafonte (a renowned United fan) the night in question. He drank 8 pints and ran around singing “You’ll never win the league!” Quote embarrassing actually.
 
Van Dijk should spend him a beer for that.
 
Explains a lot. Ramos destroyed them all by himself.
 
DoubleDinhos said:
The conspiracy theories in this thread being used as an excuse so people can still bash Karius are proper weird. These are top medical professionals, they're not going to make a diagnosis out of thin air to save face.

Horrible luck all round. I don't think it's fair to blame the club's medical staff either. The incident happened miles away from the touchline and if he doesn't realise he's concussed and therefore doesn't flag it up how are the staff supposed to know to examine him. This is a case for the American sports' use of impartial concussion spotters looking at replays imo. Football is shamefully behind on these issues.
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The effort people are willing to undertake, just so they can make fun of another person, without having to feel bad about it, is staggering. It's obvious what happened. People should just accept it and move on.
I think the docs should have checked up on him at halftime. A blunder like that, shortly after an incident like that, should be enough to have them do at least some basic checks. But maybe the symptoms weren't really visible.
I agree on the rest. Football needs to do better in that regard. What happened in the finale 2014 with Kramer for example, was a scandal. He should have never set a foot on the pitch again.
 
User 72192 said:
Do you have some info which specific tests they ran on him? Honest questions, I'd be much more convinced if I knew it wasn't just a bunch of questions
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I know exactly the same things you do. Which is why I don't understand how you can be so critical about the testing. We don't know what tests they did. We don't have to. When experts as respected as them publicize a diagnosis like that in the way they do, I tend to believe them, until I find any reason not to. I fail to understand, why some people on here, go to such lengths, to suggest he might not have been concussed and this is some sort of conspiracy.
 
Liverpool medical staff probably knew he was concussed but decided that even in a semi aware state that he would still be better than Mignolet .
A right pair of clowns , long may they remain at the club .
 
I believe it. Karius is a good keeper, brilliant one.
No need to buy a new one, Karius is enough. Obviously he couldn't play 100 percent in the final.
 
User 72192 said:
If it were just questions it's basically meaningless as a test because of the extreme subjectivity
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While that is highly debatable as a statement in itself, what makes you think this happened? You are arguing against what most likely happend and is now supported by evidence. I would assume you have great arguments in order to challenge the official version of things. What are they?
 
This only makes sense if they're not going to replace him so they're trying to vindicate him. :lol:
 
This thread is a bit of an embarassment tbh. Concussions arent really a laughing matter and football in general is still in the medieval times when it comes to treating them.

Who knows if he wouldve made a mistake without the concussion. The first one was a complete lack of awareness and some confusion basically (common with concussions) which the second, a strong swerving shot from distance that he misread the flight of the ball. 2nd is a pretty obvious case where a concussion would severely hamper you. First one probably was affected by it too.

I do feel for Karius, it's never nice seeing someone life devastated on the biggest stage, but such is football. I would say he himself shouldve notified someone, but as mentioned, people usually just dont realize it themselves. And in the case of that game, I'm not sure how much anyone else can be blamed... how would anyone know he had a concussion if they missed the initial contact with Ramos and Karius got up pretty quickly and told nobody? Players should know to just stay down whenever they have head problems.
 
DoubleDinhos said:
The conspiracy theories in this thread being used as an excuse so people can still bash Karius are proper weird. These are top medical professionals, they're not going to make a diagnosis out of thin air to save face.

Horrible luck all round. I don't think it's fair to blame the club's medical staff either. The incident happened miles away from the touchline and if he doesn't realise he's concussed and therefore doesn't flag it up how are the staff supposed to know to examine him. This is a case for the American sports' use of impartial concussion spotters looking at replays imo. Football is shamefully behind on these issues.
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Extremely convenient that this story pops up over a week later, when nobody mentioned it before. Not even Karius - who showed no physical signs whatsoever for the rest of the game. It is extremely easy to be diagnosed with a so-called concussion since it cannot be shown on a CT or MRI scan. Observations based on leading questions and convenient answers.
 
The medical staff didn't even have the chance to examine him. He didn't stay on the ground or signaled that something is off. He complained to the ref for a bit and then got on with it. It was after the break as well.
 
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He really would be better letting this lie, true or not this always going to be looked on as a poor attempt at trying to save face, and more ridicule is bound to follow.
 
HTG said:
Dr Ross Zafonte, one of the biggest experts there is, on the field of traumatic brain injuries.
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And the Liverpool's owner has made significant donations to the hospital. It's a bit strange that he get's on a plane believing he has concussion and then flies to a hospital that has ties with Arnold. Why would he go to Massachusetts? It's hardly a holiday destination.
 
HTG said:
Dr Ross Zafonte, one of the biggest experts there is, on the field of traumatic brain injuries.
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We’re mates, he’s still laughing his tits off about the Scousers loss.

I was also there when Ross tried leather pants, and when he bought a monkey. It was a blinder. Good times, and good Friends, the nineties.
 
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still some inconsistencies in the mystery for me

1 - did they treat him for this bang on the head? so they knew it had happened?

2 - did they not suspect something might be amiss when he lashed up for the 2nd time? but they left him on

3 - why not see how he is when he's lying on the ground at full time? - (no one seems worried do they)
 
Good for Karius, tbf (not the injury, but the fact that he has an excuse of sorts).

Hopefully he recovers fully. Concussions are scary as hell. I know too many people who have got their lives put on hold for long periods of time (months, years etc.) after suffering concussions and going back to work too early afterwards.
 
User 72192 said:
Have a look at Kramer in the 2014 final, if you want to see how someone with a concussion looks and how a person with one usually behaves.
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And this is all that's needed in order to take your position not too seriously. Sorry if that sounds harsh. But if this is your understanding of brain injuries or concussions, its not worth to go any further. You can have a severe concussion without anyone, including oneself, noticing it. Which has been pointed out like a million times on here.

montpelier said:
still some inconsistencies in the mystery for me

1 - did they treat him for this bang on the head? so they knew it had happened?

2 - did they not suspect something might be amiss when he lashed up for the 2nd time? but they left him on

3 - why not see how he is when he's lying on the ground at full time? - (no one seems worried do they)
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1. It did not look that bad and he got up quite soon thereafter. There might not have been any indication of a concussion yet.
2. I think they should have and he should have been checked at halftime. But we don't know if that happened or not. We also don't know how competent the docs are. Or maybe those things happen all the time, mostly without consequences and thus they believed nothing out of the ordinary happened. I don't know. There is in infinite number of plausible explanations.
3. I don't know exactly what you mean. The players might have struggled with themselves. The docs might not have seen any reason to believe something was wrong. We just don't know.
 
DonnieDarko said:
Concussion has actually been confirmed by the hospital - https://www.massgeneral.org/News/newsarticle.aspx?id=6792
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“After carefully reviewing game film and integrating a detailed history – including his reported present and immediate post-contact subjective symptoms – physical examination and objective metrics, we have concluded that Mr. Karius sustained a concussion during the match May 26, 2018.”

This looks like an attempt to save his carreer:

1). No MRI?

2). Why go all the way to Boston for an examination?

3). I would feel dizzy too from the embarrassment of letting in those 2 goals in a CL final the way that he did. Nothing to do with Ramos.
 
User 72192 said:
I doubt the reliability of said evidence because I don't know what they did to test him. It's questioning instead of simply accepting what a doctor says several days after the incident.



It's not unlikely that Karius is looking for excuses for his blunders and uses this as such.
Have a look at Kramer in the 2014 final, if you want to see how someone with a concussion looks and how a person with one usually behaves.



He got pushed by a Liverpool player before.
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Theres a pretty massive range in how a player looks when they're concussed, and how conscious they are. Looking for excuses? So did he pay off trained professionals to say he has a concussion?

So... let me get this straight. You are choosing to doubt what experts on traumatic brain injuries are saying about the incident because you dont know exactly what these experts did to assess the concussion? Or because you dont agree with the standard procedure? What makes you an expert who can argue what they're saying? Because it doesnt suit the "lol they are shit and he fecked up" narrative?

Talk about cooking up a conspiracy theory based on nothing but idiocy ffs :lol:
 
bosnian_red said:
Theres a pretty massive range in how a player looks when they're concussed, and how conscious they are. Looking for excuses? So did he pay off trained professionals to say he has a concussion?
:lol:
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No but Arnold might have called in a favour.
 
HTG said:
And this is all that's needed in order to take your position not too seriously. Sorry if that sounds harsh. But if this is your understanding of brain injuries or concussions, its not worth to go any further. You can have a severe concussion without anyone, including oneself, noticing it. Which has been pointed out like a million times on here.


1. It did not look that bad and he got up quite soon thereafter. There might not have been any indication of a concussion yet.
2. I think they should have and he should have been checked at halftime. But we don't know if that happened or not. We also don't know how competent the docs are. Or maybe those things happen all the time, mostly without consequences and thus they believed nothing out of the ordinary happened. I don't know. There is in infinite number of plausible explanations.
3. I don't know exactly what you mean. The players might have struggled with themselves. The docs might not have seen any reason to believe something was wrong. We just don't know.
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It happened at the start of the 2nd half I think. Theres not much anyone could've done tbf, he got up when there was no foul called and held his head a bit but that's it. It was off the ball and most people just missed the incident, so there was no stoppage in play and soon after the mistake happened. The only person whp couldve really done anything was Karius, by telling people or staying down. Didnt happen though.
 
HTG said:
Bild are reporting that Karius apparently suffered from a concussion, that most likely occured, when he got checked by Ramos. That would pretty much explain his mistakes. Liverpool apparently sent him to Boston, where he got evaluated. From 30 tests they ran with him, 26 showed clear signs of a concussion.
I would link the article here, but it is behind a paywall.

If true, that’s quite negligent from the Liverpool docs. As soon as a player shows even the smallest symptoms of a concussion, he should immediately be subbed and further evaluated.

I still feel extremely sorry for the guy. But maybe this leads to a reevaluation of how concussions are treated in football.
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Create a new thread on these kind of news or ask someone to update the title at least. I only saw this because of seeing it on other site.
 
bosnian_red said:
Theres a pretty massive range in how a player looks when they're concussed, and how conscious they are. Looking for excuses? So did he pay off trained professionals to say he has a concussion?

So... let me get this straight. You are choosing to doubt what experts on traumatic brain injuries are saying about the incident because you dont know exactly what these experts did to assess the concussion? Or because you dont agree with the standard procedure? What makes you an expert who can argue what they're saying? Because it doesnt suit the "lol they are shit and he fecked up" narrative?

Talk about cooking up a conspiracy theory based on nothing but idiocy ffs :lol:
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All we've seen is a press release and not a very substantial one at that.
 
bosnian_red said:
Yeah I'll stick that into all the other ridiculous and baseless conspiracy theories folder...
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Why travel all the way to a hospital that Arnold has given massive donations to in the past? You do realise that it is dangerous to get on a plane with concussion?
 
I remember him making a very good save in between the two errors he made. So he was able to make a diving save to his left despite his spatial awareness being impaired?
 
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