It’s sets them up for life doesn’t it? Baldy is about to get £15m even though he is shit at his job.
Looks like Tuchel turned us down, not the other way around according to BILD
- Thread starter UnofficialDevil
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If your only objective is money, then yeah you’re right. If you value legacy and sporting achievements, maybe not so much.
did they win?
Edin Terzic is being touted by The Sun - couldn't bring myself to read the rag to find out if there was a quote or any evidence or if they'd jsut drawn his name out of a hat
His manner is the closest to SAF as I can think of those who are available and would root out any sh!t in the dressing room
But for their reputation and health it’s probably not great, despite the hefty paycheck. Managers looks done in by the time they’re sacked. Broken.
Tuchel now bookies favourite for both England and United jobs.
Hope he ends up at Utd.
Hope he ends up at Utd.
Job share. Split the cost.
Should stay as far away from Tuchel as possible. If people want Ten Hag sacked for his record at United, how can anyone want Tuchel based on his Bayern record?
He is progressively getting worse as a coach, very similar to Jose. Appointing Tuchel would be the exact same as when we appointed Jose, would be an indication that we are in the same place as we were 6 years ago.
He is progressively getting worse as a coach, very similar to Jose. Appointing Tuchel would be the exact same as when we appointed Jose, would be an indication that we are in the same place as we were 6 years ago.
His Bayern record of 67% win percentage and a CL semifinal?
Edit: It should also be mentioned that last year Bayern had the highest xG differential in Europe top 5 leagues but for some reason they conceded 13 more goals than expected which is a total outlier.
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Shit innit
Semi final you mean?
Correct.
Yep the % looks so good in isolation until you look into it properly.
He is the only manager since 2009 to have a less than 2 points per game ratio, basically the worst performing Bayern manager in the last decade.
I dont care about xG and what not, points on the board is all that matters.
https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/fc-bayern-munchen/mitarbeiterhistorie/verein/27
So you don't care about how a team actually does on the field when you judge a manager, you care about comparing tables while ignoring context? Noted.
What context? The fact that he was the first manager in a decade not to win a trophy at Bayern?
The fact that they didn't play good football?
The fact that he had falling out with senior players?
This is the reason we are not going to improve, we are always 2 steps behind all other top teams.
We were late in hiring all the top managers, LVG and Jose, getting them both in their decline when football was moving a different direction.
This is shown by Bayern replacing Tuchel with inexperienced Kompany from the championship.
Liverpool appointing Slot not Tuchel
Chelsea appointing Maresca not Tuchel.
The fact that it was the worst Bayern squad in a decade and that the previous ones are among the best ever. The fact that in spite of your claim that they didn't play good football, their underlying stats tells you that they were one of the best in Europe.
And in spite of your claim that he fell out with senior players, it was also reported that they wanted him to stay, said players being allegedly Neuer, Kane and Muller.
Oh yeah ofcourse, the worst Bayern squad in a decade?
Neur
De Ligt
Upamecano
Kim
Davies,
Kimmich
Goretzka
Kimmich
Mazroui
Musiala
Sane
Kane
Muller
Gnabry
Coman
Pavlovic.
Okay it was a terrible squad, I agree, none of those players are WC or talents that can get into any team in Europe.
Knocked out in every cup competition, but okay he done well because he had a good xG but no points to back that up.
They conceded more goals than the top 5 in Bundesliga last season but yeah lets look at the xG against instead.
I mean look at the cold hard facts, it was a stacked team, underperformed massively.
Look at the managers post Matt and pre Fergie
Matt Busby Successful
Wilf Mcguinnes, Former player and players favourite
Frank O'Farrell' Bought every player who played well against us
Tommy Docherty, relegated, promoted FA Cup winner
Dave Sexton Charity Shield (shared)
Ron Atkinson 2 FA Cups, 1 Charity Shield
Fergie Say no more
If history is to continue repeating itself, we need to find a scottish bloke who has broken the Rangers/Celtic hold, won a European trophy, and wants to move from a wet windy Scottish city to a wet northern English City
We are nowhere near top 8, and with this lot it's not looking likely that we will be for some time.
However lets be positive, we are going to find a manager who can wave a magic wand and get this bunch playing decent football and winning games.
As for Tuchel, there were reports over the weekend that we couldn't even tempt Sebastian Hoeneß from Stuttgart in the summer.
I'm beginning to think that this club during the Glazers tenure have ruined so many managerial careers that no -one wants the job, (except Ole) even Jose gave a wry smile when he was asked if he came back.
Yes, it is one of the worst Bayern squad in decade, how is that even debatable? I didn't tell you that was a terrible squad, I told you that it was one of the worst Bayern has had in the last decade which is relevant when you are comparing different Bayern seasons with each others.
I don't know if anyone is going to argue that Neuer or Muller are anywhere near their best in 23/24. Musiala, Gnabry, Coman or Sané, ignoring the fact that they all missed a lot of time due to injuries last season, none of them are better than prime Muller, Ribéry and Robben. None of their current midfielders are better than Schweinsteiger, Thiago, Xabi Alonso, Vidal or even a younger Kimmich and Goretzka didn't comeback very well from his injury.
None of their current defenders are anywhere Alaba, Boateng, Lahm or Hummels. And in my opinion prime Lewandowski is better than Kane, though it's debatable.
And as I alluded to, Bayern had a lot of injuries last year. Yet they were statistically one of the best teams in Europe.
Ahh okay.. so what I am seing is the same things people said about Ten Hag last season.. ohh injuries, we seen this season without, he is the same.
Let alone the dinosaur tactics that he has, which is why clubs would rather go for unproven championship managers than Tuchel.
Is it a shock that out the teams looking at challenging at the top are looking at coaches and not Tuchel? I guarantee when Real are looking for a successor to Carlo, Tuchel wont be in the run in, like he wasn't for Barca, Liverpool or Chelsea.
Ofcourse United should go for him though because we are dinosaurs too, keep talking about SAF and how good we were, even recently, the former players reminiscing about how United used to have 3/4 captains.
People need to move on, the football has moved on, only United fans want to stay in the old ways and repeat the same mistake we made 6 years ago instead of learning from it.
With the small the difference that Bayern had great underlying stats, while United didn't. But again if you believe that in the top 5 leagues the team with the best xG differential is the same as the 73rd or since you brought that metric that the team with the 11th points per game is comparable to the 32nd. Then yeah Ten Hag and Tuchel had the same type of seasons.
There is a massive difference.
Bayern were unlucky where they finished, as their underlying stats were much better than the actual results. Especially in defence they had an unusual amount of mistakes and individual blunders that can be explained by players being used out of position or simply not being that fit again after injury.
United on the other hand were actually lucky to finish where they did as they overperformed their xG and similar stats.
Even if we look at the simple results it is a fact that Tuchel both improved league results in his second (first full) season and got deeper into the CL. It's not Bayern's fault that Bayer went on a ridiculously great run.
You do realise that even without Bayer Leverkusen's ridiculous run, they would not have won the league.. they finished 3rd!.
What underlying stats? the fact that they conceded more than any team in the top 5 of the Bundesliga? The fact that they spent the most money ?
We will see what that same squad does this season with an unproven manager.
Yes. And there is no way that Bayern would have looked that disinterested in the final matches of the season If there had still been a chance to win the league. Still got more points than in the season before.
You don't seem to believe in such things as xG, but I do think that those are indicative and those were showing Bayern to be the strongest team in Germany.
Except it isn't the same squad obviously, they changed quite a lot, brought in some good players, especially to fill the ranks in defence where Tuchel had to improvise a lot (Goretzka as CB!)
Yep, the season before which was under Tuchel too for the end of it.
Okay, so to judge the strongest team, it should be based on xG not points accumulated ? So actual goals and points do not show the strongest team?
I mean its obvious Bayern are the strongest team in Germany, which is why they won the league for so many years consecutively until Tuchel was in charge.
They sold players and got in Ollise and Paulinha who doesnt really start... whereas Tuchel got 100m Kane, Kim, Boey. Its a similar squad and lets see how the underlying metrics compare this season under an inexperienced manager.
For all this talk of the league, the two times they came up against us I thought they looked poor.
They still beat us, but it’s not like that’s hard.
They still beat us, but it’s not like that’s hard.
Apparently its not about how they looked, its all about xG and xGA xA and xP these days.
When we talk about who deserves to win, it clearly is about actual goals and points, no question here.
Nonetheless I think a team that's only worse due to clearly individual mistakes in results, but otherwise has better stats otherwise, is a stronger team overall, yes. And that was last season the case with Bayern compared to Leverkusen (and Stuttgart).
Nah... those were terrible performances and the results against United put Tuchel (deservedly) under pressure, they didn't help him.
Not to mention the GSX, GLi, XLi and DX250i
Beyond that the point was about him suggesting that people aren't taking last season into account. The reality of Bayern last season is that on the field it's a team that created lots of very good chances and didn't concede lots of very good chances which points to only one thing, it was a very well coached team.
Now, if the point wasn't that Tuchel had a poor season then we could all probably agree on the fact that they were generally worksmanlike, from an aesthetic standpoint they were unremarkable. But it's important to remember that it's an extremely superficial point when it comes to judge something.
Regardless of what the stats said and everything else, the point is getting lost, Tuchel is a manager on the opposite scale of coming to his prime.
I know what he can bring to a club, moreso on a short term basis, nowhere he has managed that we have seen him get progressively better.
There are reasons he was not looked at for jobs at Barca, Liverpool, Chelsea and Bayern opted for a manager from the championship.
Football is moving on, no doubt he may be able to get United solid and play better for 12 months but after that? Its the same old story.
I want United to get to a point where we start dominating teams, I do not see that with Tuchel. There was also an article at his time at Chelsea where it was mentioned, majority of his work was defensive shape and making sure they are solid and minimal work attacking.
We are a team that can't score goals, we need someone who can coach us into a system.
OK, this is an assumption that might be true, will not argue against it.
Chelsea already had sacked him and Bayern apparently was split on this, some people asked for him to stay, even the senior players. In general Bayern didn't opt for Kompany because they wanted to, but because no one wanted to go there.
I get what you are saying, but personally I feel a manager who makes the team solid wouldn't be a bad choice for now.
But maybe that's not what the club wants. In a way EtH's high risk/high reward approach actually is not that different from how Flick or Kompany set their teams up. EtH just isn't getting results and Kompany has questions to answer, only Flick seems to be in an undoubted position currently of these three examples.
I get that and he is definitely a manager who will get you solid, see when he took over from Nagglesman and Lampard but those teams never then developed into something further.
If he isnt going to win us the league or CL because we are not in the CL, what is the point for us being more solid? to finish a big higher than we have been?
I would rather see a solution where a manager is progressively improving the team to a point where we can consistently challenge, not 1 year and then drop, which is what we are at the moment.
Kompany was always a risk choice but lets that is where everyone is going, a new age coach.
However well the older coaches have done, Anchelotti, Conte, Tuchel etc.. you can see the demand for those is at all time low.
David Moyes sounds like the closest option haha
What's hilarious is Goldshite claiming there's no way Tuchel could have turned the United job down for England.
Has he ever been right about anything to do with United?
He made clear in his press conference that he wanted to return to work in England, which has been something mentioned in the press. Ornstein mentioned that he withdrew interest in the United job in the summer (though perhaps this was because he'd rather say no thanks before being rejected) but it seems pretty clear that if he was prior to him being offered the England job he would have been very interested.
If we really wanted Tuchel, I have no doubt he would be our manager.