Livestream out of Syria

Tareq Aziz was also a Christian, wasn't he? Question still remains as for why Christian citizens need government protection in Arab countries.
 
holyland red said:
Tareq Aziz was also a Christian, wasn't he? Question still remains as for why Christian citizens need government protection in Arab countries.
Click to expand...
Because some neighbouring countries (with the West's help) are promoting some radical ideologies and supporting groups that adopt those ideologies, and then arm them so they can fight on their behalf people whom they don't like, or people they have a political disagreement with, and then the Arabs (and sometimes even the Western people) have to live with the collateral damage that results from these policies.
 
holyland red said:
I have no theories, and thought perhaps you could shed more light. Blaming the West is lazy.
Click to expand...

Lazy or not, the West's stance in antagonising the secular Arab movements of the 60s/70s had opened up a void which had been filled by Islamic extremists, who to this day are being backed in their war against secular Arab regimes by their western partners.
 
Millions of them have fled Egypt over the years, haven't they? Couldn't be the West's fault, surely...Not that I agree that it is in Syria and Iraq. Pulling the carpet under the Ba'athists doesn't mean responsibility for the ensuing secetarian violence.
 
holyland red said:
No, that's what you've been implying here in your last few posts.
Click to expand...
Arab Muslims aren't killing Arab Christians (as if you didn't know that).

The terrorist/radical organizations that were created primarily by Saudi Arabia, and was supported and used by the West for many years, are the ones killing Christians and Muslims (both Shia and Sunni by the way) in the Arab countries.
 
Danny1982 said:
Arab Muslims aren't killing Arab Christians (as if you didn't know that).

The terrorist/radical organizations that were created primarily by Saudi Arabia, and was supported and used by the West for many years, are the ones killing Christians and Muslims (both Shia and Sunni by the way) in the Arab countries.
Click to expand...

Is.that true for Egypt too?
 
Danny1982 said:
Yes.
Click to expand...

Classic case of having to agree to disagree. You'll go on blaming the West for all that is wrong in the Muslim/Arab world. at the same time, I reckon things are not going to get any better there before the Arabs learn to take some responsibility. I am not sure we're going to bridge that gap anytime soon.
 
holyland red said:
Classic case of having to agree to disagree. You'll go on blaming the West for all that is wrong in the Muslim/Arab world. at the same time, I reckon things are not going to get any better there before the Arabs learn to take some responsibility. I am not sure we're going to bridge that gap anytime soon.
Click to expand...
Take some responsibility for what? Killing the Christians?! What do you want me to do? Blame all the Arab Muslims for killing the Christians when in reality only a very small minority are doing that? That's stupid.
 
holyland red said:
Classic case of having to agree to disagree. You'll go on blaming the West for all that is wrong in the Muslim/Arab world. at the same time, I reckon things are not going to get any better there before the Arabs learn to take some responsibility. I am not sure we're going to bridge that gap anytime soon.
Click to expand...

Yes till the time the west supports the force behind the extreme elements (wahabis and saudi arabia) among the arab muslims who are responsible for the acts your blaming an entire ethnicity of.
 
Danny1982 said:
Take some responsibility for what? Killing the Christians?! What do you want me to do? Blame all the Arab Muslims for killing the Christians when in reality only a very small minority are doing that? That's stupid.
Click to expand...

Did I ever say that? How tolerant would you say Arab societies are? It's not even the Christians- Muslims murder Muslims more than any other ethnic group. The West surely can't be blamed for Muslims killing Muslims. It's not only Wahabism at fault here either, is it?
 
holyland red said:
Did I ever say that? How tolerant would you say Arab societies are? It's not even the Christians- Muslims murder Muslims more than any other ethnic group. The West surely can't be blamed for Muslims killing Muslims. It's not only Wahabism at fault here either, is it?
Click to expand...
The West is blamed because they are helping those who are killing Muslims and Christians (directly or indirectly). They helped them grow, supported them directly sometimes in some areas, and Saudi Arabia (the US' biggest ally in the region after Israel) is actually the source of most of those terrorists and their ideology.

Anyway, back to topic. This is a report by ITV from about a month or so ago I believe. It shows now what we were saying is gonna happen all along from the start.

This was probably one of the main reasons behind the truce that was agreed in many areas around Damascus last month.
 
Yeah, I know how you feel. We were saying the same about Gaza and then Egypt. Take away the brutal secular dictator and you end up with an even more brutal theocratic dictatorship.

I blame the West.
 
Last edited:
Syria: As the bombs fall, the people of Damascus rally round Bashar al-Assad
By Peter Oborne
6:40AM BST 17 Apr 2014
...

Over the past few days, I have talked to shopkeepers, students, soldiers, doctors, a dentist, MPs and government ministers (including the minister for tourism, who must have the most thankless job in the world). On the basis of these conversations, I would judge not just that support for the regime is holding up, but that President Assad could very well win a popular election, even if carried out on a free and fair basis. Such elections are in fact due: the president must hold a poll before July 17 if he is not to exceed his constitutional term of office. An announcement is expected soon.

Discussing this vote, I found – to my surprise – that even people outside the governing Ba’ath party, including some of Assad’s political opponents, said they would support him. Maria Saadah, an independent MP for Damascus, told me that her career as an architect had suffered because she did not belong to the Ba’ath, and that she had entered politics at the beginning of the crisis because she wanted to reform the system. But she added that the middle of a war against what she described as foreign-backed insurgents – which is how the regime ceaselessly depicts its opponents – was not the time for that. Syrian sovereignty, she said, had to come first.

This argument is very common. People here see their country as being threatened by foreign powers (above all Saudi Arabia, Qatar and Turkey, all backed by the West) who are sponsoring the jihadist groups that make up the opposition. I was struck by the fact that this argument is not made only by the Alawite coterie around the president. I also heard it from Sunni Muslims, Christians and members of the various other cultural and religious groups that abound in Syria.

How can this square with the Western narrative that President Assad’s government, with the aid of a handful of tribal followers, is hell-bent on the destruction of the rest of the country? Consider the facts. Only a handful of members of Assad’s 30-strong cabinet (I was told two) are Alawite. The prime minister is Sunni, as are the interior minister, the justice minister, the foreign minister, even the defence minister. The delegation that travelled to Geneva for the failed peace talks several months ago was also almost entirely composed of Sunni Muslims (though they would probably reject sectarian terms, and prefer to think of themselves just as Syrians).

Nor is it merely the political class that thinks in this way. Last night I had dinner with a young doctor. He showed me a Facebook exchange that he had recently had with a former friend from medical school, who has joined the extremist opposition group al-Nusra. The doctor had put out a public status aimed at all jihadists asking them: “Please stop shooting at us with your mortars.” He was astonished to receive a reply from his friend: “I will put a bullet in your heads.” My doctor friend messaged him back: “I am not afraid of you.” This was followed by a horrifying response. “We love death, we drink blood. Our president is dead bodies. Wait for our exploding cars to kill you.”

...
Click to expand...
Here is the full article..

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...-of-Damascus-rally-round-Bashar-al-Assad.html
 
Heavy clashes between the YPG and ISIS in Serekaniye this week. 86 ISIS members killed yesterday and 16 YPG. Reports that 15 women and children were murdered when the ISIS raided two villages with the YPG responding heavily.

A funeral for the YPG killed was held today:
Bo5Ht74CIAACGKp.png
 
Scenes from the Syrian elections in Lebanon...

Tens of thousands went out to vote..

us-politicians-lebanon-syria-elections-.si.jpg


While a much smaller crowd (estimated at hundreds at most) was protesting against the elections.

0e3b1b48eff1757883702319d974aebf.jpg
 
I think I read something about the UN giving up on following the death toll is Syria a couple of days back, but when googling I only find stories from January. Is that really the situation, and when did they give up? What's the most up-to-date credible figure?
 
SOHR and other media outlets are reporting the figure of more then 1,71,000 killed.

Assad should be convicted for war crimes. Torturing and murdering civilians at the hands of Shabiha and his dog was not enough, he has imposed blockade on rebel held areas and now people are dieing of starvation.
 
holyland red said:
How many were killed there in the last couple of weeks? Any estimates?
Click to expand...

Any specific reason for asking about just last couple of weeks ?

Or I assume you want to use this death toll and a time frame of Arabs killing eachother to justify Israel's killing of Palestinians in Gaza, as you've done before, am I right ?
 
kid777 said:
Any specific reason for asking about just last couple of weeks ?

Or I assume you want to use this death toll and a time frame of Arabs killing eachother to justify Israel's killing of Palestinians in Gaza, as you've done before, am I right ?
Click to expand...

You couldn't be more wrong. Rocket fire on Israeli cities and tunnel attacks on Israeli soil justify everything the IDF is doing right now in Gaza. I think I made my opinion on that one clear enough in the relevant thread.

I just noticed that the last post in this thread dates back to July 7th and wondered what's the latest situation there.
 
Last edited:
kid777 said:
SOHR and other media outlets are reporting the figure of more then 1,71,000 killed.

Assad should be convicted for war crimes. Torturing and murdering civilians at the hands of Shabiha and his dog was not enough, he has imposed blockade on rebel held areas and now people are dieing of starvation.
Click to expand...

Spot on. He should be. His actions should be prosecuted to the maximum extent possible and should be analyzed independently of what foreign Salafist groups are doing.
 
kid777 said:
Any specific reason for asking about just last couple of weeks ?

Or I assume you want to use this death toll and a time frame of Arabs killing eachother to justify Israel's killing of Palestinians in Gaza, as you've done before, am I right ?
Click to expand...

Its an interesting point that no one seems to be addressing. Where is all the outrage over what's happening to Syrians ?
 
Raoul said:
Its an interesting point that no one seems to be addressing. Where is all the outrage over what's happening to Syrians ?
Click to expand...
People don't like hearing about Muslim on Muslim violence.
 
Raoul - The Sectarianism involved in the conflict has meant that it has confused the issue. The Shi'ites consider Syria a travesty because of the Shrines of worship, such as that of Zainab being at risk in Damascus, the Sunnis have many places of respect from the graves of Saints, to the tombs of great figures in Islamic history and rally against the injustices from the Shi'ite Alawi and Hezbollah deathsquads. Then you have the bloodthirsty ISIS and JN etc who would demolish both of them if possible. Palestine is a unifying issue because of the centrality of Al-Quds to Islam, no matter what the sect. Hence at the London Palestine protest yesterday we saw Hezbollah and FSA flags despite both wanting to blow each other to bits in Syria.

One thing I further say though, Hezbollah are so full of shit when it comes to Palestine. They're crocodile tears have fooled no one with more than a passing interest in the conflict. The situation of the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon has been deplorable for decades and Hezbollah has done nothing to help them.

So it's nothing about Muslims not wanting to hear about Muslim on Muslim violence, we all know that the Sectarian tensions in Iraq and Syria have always been prevalent and there had looked to be a turning of the tide during the Arab Spring and the toppling of Saddam before it, but the foolish actions of Al-Malaki in Iraq and the downright evil actions of ISIS in Syria have turned the Middle East in to a bloodbath. The only way I see things changing is if the opposition in both countries unite and topple the oppressive regimes in both countries.
 
rotherham_red said:
Raoul - The Sectarianism involved in the conflict has meant that it has confused the issue. The Shi'ites consider Syria a travesty because of the Shrines of worship, such as that of Zainab being at risk in Damascus, the Sunnis have many places of respect from the graves of Saints, to the tombs of great figures in Islamic history and rally against the injustices from the Shi'ite Alawi and Hezbollah deathsquads. Then you have the bloodthirsty ISIS and JN etc who would demolish both of them if possible. Palestine is a unifying issue because of the centrality of Al-Quds to Islam, no matter what the sect. Hence at the London Palestine protest yesterday we saw Hezbollah and FSA flags despite both wanting to blow each other to bits in Syria.

One thing I further say though, Hezbollah are so full of shit when it comes to Palestine. They're crocodile tears have fooled no one with more than a passing interest in the conflict. The situation of the Palestinian refugees in Lebanon has been deplorable for decades and Hezbollah has done nothing to help them.

So it's nothing about Muslims not wanting to hear about Muslim on Muslim violence, we all know that the Sectarian tensions in Iraq and Syria have always been prevalent and there had looked to be a turning of the tide during the Arab Spring and the toppling of Saddam before it, but the foolish actions of Al-Malaki in Iraq and the downright evil actions of ISIS in Syria have turned the Middle East in to a bloodbath. The only way I see things changing is if the opposition in both countries unite and topple the oppressive regimes in both countries.
Click to expand...

I agree the Syrian and Iraqi governments leave much to be desired in terms of adequate governance. Although at this stage, the fact that so many foreign fighters have established themselves in both countries, the thought of either Maliki or Assad being deposed would suggest that the likes of ISIS would consolidate their gains and continue whatever bloodshed is going on today. The only way (imo) to reduce the violence would be for an international force to come in and establish peace in both countries. Assad has completely lost international legitimacy, and Maliki has proved to be a small minded for the job, so neither are likely to make any progress.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.