Liverpool : General discussion

Yorkeontop said:
I don't think things are as bad as some are saying. We saw against Arsenal that with Coutinho in the mix they are still more than competitive. Benteke has given them another dimension and will prove his worth.
Click to expand...
They were terrible against Stoke, Coutinho had one moment of magic which saved them. They were equally terrible against Bournemouth and were it not for refereeing incompetence, they'd have lost 1-0 legitimately. Against Arsenal, the vast majority of their opportunities were due to Chambers' and Arsenal's inability to pass to a teammate in the first half. Once Arsenal regained their composure, Liverpool were just as anonymous as they were in their previous two games, plus Ramsey had a legitimate goal disallowed. Then we have West Ham and our game. They were just as bad as they had been in their other games, the only difference is West Ham and us made them pay for their rank incompetence.

If the referees had been doing their job, Liverpool would only be on 3 points.
 
rotherham_red said:
They were terrible against Stoke, Coutinho had one moment of magic which saved them. They were equally terrible against Bournemouth and were it not for refereeing incompetence, they'd have lost 1-0 legitimately. Against Arsenal, the vast majority of their opportunities were due to Chambers' and Arsenal's inability to pass to a teammate in the first half. Once Arsenal regained their composure, Liverpool were just as anonymous as they were in their previous two games, plus Ramsey had a legitimate goal disallowed. Then we have West Ham and our game. They were just as bad as they had been in their other games, the only difference is West Ham and us made them pay for their rank incompetence.

If the referees had been doing their job, Liverpool would only be on 3 points.
Click to expand...

Right. Insert a hundred conditional clauses and any team is on 3 points really.
 
A major European club will have a rethink about Coutinho very soon. He is next on the bye bye list.
 
They are pretty poor, they don't look solid nor do they look like scoring goals. Their team is littered with average players who uncomfortable playing the style of football Rodgers wants to play. Whats the point of buying Benteke if you're not going to whip in a lot of crosses?
 
B20 said:
Right. Insert a hundred conditional clauses and any team is on 3 points really.
Click to expand...
Not really. They were the beneficiaries of three clear cut wrong decisions. It's pretty clear and it's not really a clause. If the refs hadn't bottled it they would be on three points. Can't think of any decisions that they were on the wrong end of either, so it can't be said that those decisions have been balanced out so far also.
 
Jagga7 said:
They are pretty poor, they don't look solid nor do they look like scoring goals. Their team is littered with average players who uncomfortable playing the style of football Rodgers wants to play. Whats the point of buying Benteke if you're not going to whip in a lot of crosses?
Click to expand...

That's exactly what I was thinking before he even kicked a ball for them. The likes of Ballotelli and Lambert didn't work out and then they go and buy another player in that mould. It doesn't make sense. Surely a striker with pace and movement would have suited them better. Not like we would have sold him to them, but Hernandez would have been a better fit.
 
Yorkeontop said:
I don't think things are as bad as some are saying. We saw against Arsenal that with Coutinho in the mix they are still more than competitive. Benteke has given them another dimension and will prove his worth.
Click to expand...
Yep. They will probably get top 7, another year of mediocrity. Is that what a club like that wants? People are only reacting in the context of the club we are talking about.
 
I think their biggest problem is Rodgers not having a clear direction about what he wants. In his four years at Liverpool he has tried to play Possession football, counter attacking football and of late they have been very rigid and somewhat defensive. He always preaches philosophy and principles but ne ver sticks to them and abandons them at every sight of trouble.
 
rotherham_red said:
They were terrible against Stoke, Coutinho had one moment of magic which saved them. They were equally terrible against Bournemouth and were it not for refereeing incompetence, they'd have lost 1-0 legitimately. Against Arsenal, the vast majority of their opportunities were due to Chambers' and Arsenal's inability to pass to a teammate in the first half. Once Arsenal regained their composure, Liverpool were just as anonymous as they were in their previous two games, plus Ramsey had a legitimate goal disallowed. Then we have West Ham and our game. They were just as bad as they had been in their other games, the only difference is West Ham and us made them pay for their rank incompetence.

If the referees had been doing their job, Liverpool would only be on 3 points.
Click to expand...

You right. I'm basing my opinion on general sentiment and gut feel.

Jagga7 said:
They are pretty poor, they don't look solid nor do they look like scoring goals. Their team is littered with average players who uncomfortable playing the style of football Rodgers wants to play. Whats the point of buying Benteke if you're not going to whip in a lot of crosses?
Click to expand...

And I reckon Benteke proved at Villa ( 42 in 88 according to wiki) that he's good enough to build around and Liverpool would not be wrong to do that. Of course it goes against Rodger's philosophy but why buy him then. Take the get out of jail free card damnit!

Offside said:
Yep. They will probably get top 7, another year of mediocrity. Is that what a club like that wants? People are only reacting in the context of the club we are talking about.
Click to expand...

They no longer a top 4 club are they. They still should be the best of the rest of though. They do still talk a big game but that is their prerogative.
 
SteveJ said:
I think BR's trying not to lose games, rather than proactively seeking wins, as he might fear for his job.
Click to expand...

Which is depressing on multiple levels.
 
Thier midfield is alarmingly average. There's no real specialists in that or players or excel defensively or offensively. All creativity is weighted so heavily on Coutinho.
 
Our problem is the manager, the way he had our team playing vs. United was sheer cowardice, this more than anything was what the fans were angry about post game. I'm afraid he's been too concerned, right from Game 1 because he knows the pressure is on him, with losing his job to set us up to play effective attacking football any more.

The team itself has improved. There is no doubt that Clyne & Gomez as FBs are an improvement on Johnson & Moreno (who is more suited to LCM but not good enough there either). Benteke, Sturridge (when fit), Ings and Origi look to be a big step in the right direction over Sturridge (injured), Balotelli, Lambert and Borini. In midfield who would argue that Milner is not better than an ageing Gerrard ? Firmino needs time to settle and not to be played as a Wing Back or Winger, which are patently not his positions.

Therefore it again comes back on the manager; persisting with Lovren over Sakho, playing Ings and Firmino as Wing Backs instead of in their normal positions, playing formations that give Benteke absolutely zero support (see Wing Backs) and not getting in a good pacey winger to replace Sterling. We have Ibe, who is going to be a very very good player but he's still very young, but Rodgers biggest mistake was sending Markovic and Ryan Kent (bright young rising star, a fast, scoring, winger) out on loan. At least we had pacey wide options with them in the squad, now there is no-one but Ibe. Insane.

We will look better when Sturridge, Henderson and Coutinho come back into the side because, no matter how much some people on here 'don't rate them' or find them to be 'inconsistent' the team is certainly better with them than without. However it will still come down to the formations and instructions Rodgers sends the team out with. Go back to a diamond or any formation playing two strikers to ensure we give Benteke support (Ben+Studge or Ben + Ings) and we'll look a lot better and score goals, continue with his gutless defensive setups and we are going to struggle all season.
 
In the last couple years they've lost Suarez, Sterling, Sturridge (to injury) Gerrard, Carragher. Before that Alonso, Torres, Mascherano, Reina. Next it'll be Coutinho, then Ibe or whoever shows top quality.

To replace a prime Gerrard they'd need a Pogba type. Instead they got James Milner.
 
Rafateria said:
Our problem is the manager, the way he had our team playing vs. United was sheer cowardice, this more than anything was what the fans were angry about post game. I'm afraid he's been too concerned, right from Game 1 because he knows the pressure is on him, with losing his job to set us up to play effective attacking football any more.

The team itself has improved. There is no doubt that Clyne & Gomez as FBs are an improvement on Johnson & Moreno (who is more suited to LCM but not good enough there either). Benteke, Sturridge (when fit), Ings and Origi look to be a big step in the right direction over Sturridge (injured), Balotelli, Lambert and Borini. In midfield who would argue that Milner is not better than an ageing Gerrard ? Firmino needs time to settle and not to be played as a Wing Back or Winger, which are patently not his positions.

Therefore it again comes back on the manager; persisting with Lovren over Sakho, playing Ings and Firmino as Wing Backs instead of in their normal positions, playing formations that give Benteke absolutely zero support (see Wing Backs) and not getting in a good pacey winger to replace Sterling. We have Ibe, who is going to be a very very good player but he's still very young, but Rodgers biggest mistake was sending Markovic and Ryan Kent (bright young rising star, a fast, scoring, winger) out on loan. At least we had pacey wide options with them in the squad, now there is no-one but Ibe. Insane.

We will look better when Sturridge, Henderson and Coutinho come back into the side because, no matter how much some people on here 'don't rate them' or find them to be 'inconsistent' the team is certainly better with them than without. However it will still come down to the formations and instructions Rodgers sends the team out with. Go back to a diamond or any formation playing two strikers to ensure we give Benteke support (Ben+Studge or Ben + Ings) and we'll look a lot better and score goals, continue with his gutless defensive setups and we are going to struggle all season.
Click to expand...

This part is interesting for me,might be biased and know some here or almost all calling him shit but never understood what was idea behind forcing Markovic to be some RWB/LWB.From what i saw in EL with Benfica,Markovic was good attacking winger/inside forward who wasnt lazy to really put some shift in defending,his games vs Juventus in semi final showed that i think.

What is even more funny,all that talk that some players need to adapt to PL,some need 6 months,some a year and right after year he sent him on loan to Turkey,player for which he paid 20-25 mil., i dont feel sorry for Markovic tho,its his fecking fault to be braindead and joining on the first place,also find his move to Fener a retarded one,might do him good but doubt it.
 
@Rafateria I don't know why you carry on saying Firmino and Ings were played as wing backs. Firmino was definitely never in a position to be characterized as such, and the only instances where Ings could be called a WB (when Utd were in possession) were due to his own and Gomez's incompentence in understanding how to position themselves. I'm highlighting this as you seem to attribute this to a tactical decision by Rodgers when it wasn't his fault, in this instance, that Gomez kept pushing inside and forced Ings back too much.
 
Rafateria said:
Our problem is the manager, the way he had our team playing vs. United was sheer cowardice, this more than anything was what the fans were angry about post game. I'm afraid he's been too concerned, right from Game 1 because he knows the pressure is on him, with losing his job to set us up to play effective attacking football any more.

The team itself has improved. There is no doubt that Clyne & Gomez as FBs are an improvement on Johnson & Moreno (who is more suited to LCM but not good enough there either). Benteke, Sturridge (when fit), Ings and Origi look to be a big step in the right direction over Sturridge (injured), Balotelli, Lambert and Borini. In midfield who would argue that Milner is not better than an ageing Gerrard ? Firmino needs time to settle and not to be played as a Wing Back or Winger, which are patently not his positions.

Therefore it again comes back on the manager; persisting with Lovren over Sakho, playing Ings and Firmino as Wing Backs instead of in their normal positions, playing formations that give Benteke absolutely zero support (see Wing Backs) and not getting in a good pacey winger to replace Sterling. We have Ibe, who is going to be a very very good player but he's still very young, but Rodgers biggest mistake was sending Markovic and Ryan Kent (bright young rising star, a fast, scoring, winger) out on loan. At least we had pacey wide options with them in the squad, now there is no-one but Ibe. Insane.

We will look better when Sturridge, Henderson and Coutinho come back into the side because, no matter how much some people on here 'don't rate them' or find them to be 'inconsistent' the team is certainly better with them than without. However it will still come down to the formations and instructions Rodgers sends the team out with. Go back to a diamond or any formation playing two strikers to ensure we give Benteke support (Ben+Studge or Ben + Ings) and we'll look a lot better and score goals, continue with his gutless defensive setups and we are going to struggle all season.
Click to expand...

I reckon your inability to attract and hold on to to top players that are going to take you to the next level is an even bigger problem than Brendan Rodgers at the helm. He's at least proven he can manage quality players and get them playing to their best. It's true Suarez might very well have covered over a lot of cracks for him, but every good manager needs at least one or two superstar players. Your club aren't attracting them and in Sterling' case, you aren't paying them what they want.
 
Last edited:
He should just play a two striker formation, he has the strikers for it, the likes of Firmino, Coutinho and Lallana have the characteristics for the role of a 10 but they can also beat a man.

I think he should go 4-2-2-2 with one of the strikers dropping into the hole to link the midfield to attack, the two 10s either side roaming looking to drift inside, the full backs pushing right up and then use two holding players.
 
Trizy said:
What's the obsession with Coutinho on this forum? He scores a cracker now and then but in those games he generally goes missing for the entire 90 minutes. He's no where near as good as people make him out to be.

As for Liverpool I can see them really struggling to finish 5th, they're the worst Liverpool side in years.
Click to expand...

He is a big fish in the small pond. The only reason I'll have him over mata is that he is faster than mata. His long range shooting is offset by mata s set piece ability. He stands out at Liverpool because no one else does.
 
Their problem is that John Flanagan is out injured. His return will have the same effect that cantona had after his return from ban.
 
There isn't inherently a problem in trying to shore up the team with a defensive approach. Not too dissimilar to what LVG has been doing / done. The correct thing is probably to get the defensive foundation first and then build on it, improve the attack and get the balance right.

The problem as I see it though is that he is having difficulty getting the defense right. For a good manager getting the defense right/ making it hard to get beat is probably not that difficult. And I have always thought he was a good manager. The evidence is not just that season of Suarez. The previous season (his first) he gave so many chances to so many youngsters and brought sterling, Flanagan etc along nicely. So does this struggle suggest he may not be even a decent manager?

The other problem FSG/Liverpool have is that they just backed him in the summer financially and cant just give up so soon. The new manager would want his own players and that kind of turnover cant just go on. But then how long do you give him? I guess till Jan and if he doesn't improve write the season off and move on.
 
It must be depressing times to be a Liverpool fan, even more depressing than normal. Their team is really average.

prath92 said:
Their problem is that John Flanagan is out injured. His return will have the same effect that cantona had after his return from ban.
Click to expand...

This and bring Jay Spearing back.
 
Empire said:
He should just play a two striker formation, he has the strikers for it, the likes of Firmino, Coutinho and Lallana have the characteristics for the role of a 10 but they can also beat a man.

I think he should go 4-2-2-2 with one of the strikers dropping into the hole to link the midfield to attack, the two 10s either side roaming looking to drift inside, the full backs pushing right up and then use two holding players.
Click to expand...
Sturridge and Benteke is what they are all crying for when he's back but my guess he will play Sturridge on the wing. Hopefully anyway.
 
Rooney in Paris said:
@Rafateria I don't know why you carry on saying Firmino and Ings were played as wing backs. Firmino was definitely never in a position to be characterized as such, and the only instances where Ings could be called a WB (when Utd were in possession) were due to his own and Gomez's incompentence in understanding how to position themselves. I'm highlighting this as you seem to attribute this to a tactical decision by Rodgers when it wasn't his fault, in this instance, that Gomez kept pushing inside and forced Ings back too much.
Click to expand...
Well both Carra and Neville seem to agree with me. Watch their assessment of the match and they'll show you exactly via clips. Whether or not that was an explicit Rodgers instruction we can only surmise, however one would assume that if it wasn't he'd have corrected it from the touchline or at HT.
 
Shark said:
I reckon your inability to attract and hold on to to top players that are going to take you to the next level is an even bigger problem than Brendan Rodgers at the helm. He's at least proven he can manage quality players and get them playing to their best. It's true Suarez might very well have covered over a lot of cracks for him, but every good manager needs at least one or two superstar players. Your club aren't attracting them and in Sterling' case, you aren't paying them what they want.
Click to expand...
I just don't understand your comments. Not every good manager needs at least one or two superstar players and as for Sterling, well he was offered 100k, considering we made him what he is and that he was still 19/20 that was a damn good offer. If certain clubs want to pay players ridiculous sums of money, because they are bank-rolled and in effect they didn't earn it so easy to give away, then that's hard to combat, but no-one can tell me that a youngster that is still just 80% potential and not a superstar, is worth more than 100k.
 
Not sure why they bought Firmino when money is tight, he basically plays Coutinho's position. Otherwise they spent on Benteke which was a good purchase, cannot fault Milner on a free, Clyne came for good money. I agree with Carragher that the transfers they made and the formation the manager wants to deploy are exactly at odds to one another.
 
Wednesday at Stoke said:
Not sure why they bought Firmino when money is tight, he basically plays Coutinho's position. Otherwise they spent on Benteke which was a good purchase, cannot fault Milner on a free, Clyne came for good money. I agree with Carragher that the transfers they made and the formation the manager wants to deploy are exactly at odds to one another.
Click to expand...

I think Firmino will do a good job replacing Sturridge while he's hurt.

Benteke-Firimino
----Coutinho-----

is a good front 3 and it seems like they should compliment each other well enough. Liverpool's problem is that they have no creativity outside of that group. What they do have is players who can run. I think Rodgers needs to go hell for leather with pressing (like Leverkusen, for instance) and hope that Milner, Can and Henderson, who are all sort of stupid and without poise on the ball but are quite rapid for CMs, are comfortable going wider and aren't bad at spotting a pass or hitting a cross in the final 3rd.

They still won't crack top 4 and when it fails it will look bad, but:

-----Benteke--Firmino----
----------Coutinho--------
---Henderson---Milner---
-----------Can------------
Moreno-Gomez-Skrtel-Clyne
---------Mignolet------------

is at least an energetic and watchable side. Needs a new keeper and DM yesterday and likely a new CB and maybe an LB but those are holes that can be filled next summer and at least they'd gain some chemistry and see if Moreno, Gomez and Can can develop. Can is likely too dumb for that role, but at least he'll gain some mental experience and when Milner or Henderson or Moreno are caught upfield he has the pace and strength to cover the massive gaps that will create. He'll get sent off some weeks, but such is life.
 
I don't get why they got so much criticism for playing defensively at OT,I think it was the best way to play against the current United team
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I don't get why they got so much criticism for playing defensively at OT,I think it was the best way to play against the current United team
Click to expand...

it was the fact they went ultra negative and Benteke was completely isolated - even Danny Ings was playing as a makeshift left back at times......

the best tactic against a slow United team is to sit back but you need to be able to counterattack against us.....Liverpool were spineless
 
Ayush_reddevil said:
I don't get why they got so much criticism for playing defensively at OT,I think it was the best way to play against the current United team
Click to expand...

Playing on the counter is a legit strategy like Swansea and Everton have done against us in the past but when your wide forwards are playing as wing backs, your striker is a one man fast break which never happens.
 
Rafateria said:
Well both Carra and Neville seem to agree with me. Watch their assessment of the match and they'll show you exactly via clips. Whether or not that was an explicit Rodgers instruction we can only surmise, however one would assume that if it wasn't he'd have corrected it from the touchline or at HT.
Click to expand...
I watched it and highlighted exactly what I said: Ings was forced back into defensive positions due to Gomez's incompetence. Nothing to do with a tactical set up by Brent.

Also Carragher showed this in about 2 instances.
 
Echo

When debutant Chirivella replaced Toure (after 30 mins), it meant Liverpool had three 18-year-olds, a 19-year-old, a 20-year-old and a 21-year-old on the pitch in a team with an average age of 21.7.

It's difficult to recall a greener Reds team in Continental competition. Indeed, Chirivella and Gomez, who were both born on May 23 1997, became the joint fifth youngest players to appear for the club in Europe.
 
Rafateria said:
Echo

When debutant Chirivella replaced Toure (after 30 mins), it meant Liverpool had three 18-year-olds, a 19-year-old, a 20-year-old and a 21-year-old on the pitch in a team with an average age of 21.7.

It's difficult to recall a greener Reds team in Continental competition. Indeed, Chirivella and Gomez, who were both born on May 23 1997, became the joint fifth youngest players to appear for the club in Europe.
Click to expand...

Is it true that Bordeaux had almost zero first teamers playing also? They looked far too shit to be able to hold PSG to a draw.
 
Why dosnt Rogers just go for it?

Play the diamond, two strikers and Moreno at LB. They'll concede plenty but they'll score plenty aswell. And it suits their squad better.

They nearly won the league by out scoring everyone, I think their best chance of top 4 this year is to go for the same strategy
 
Rednotdead said:
Liverpool's problem is Rodgers, and while he's there they won't improve. Long may he continue.
Click to expand...

I don't think Rodgers is the only problem at all. Look at their squad, it's full of junk. When Suarez was there, they looked like they could beat anybody. Even SAF needed that one player to carry the team at times, he wouldn't have signed RVP otherwise. Looking at the Liverpool squad, who's going to deliver that fear factor?
 
Red_Beans said:
Why dosnt Rogers just go for it?

Play the diamond, two strikers and Moreno at LB. They'll concede plenty but they'll score plenty aswell. And it suits their squad better.

They nearly won the league by out scoring everyone, I think their best chance of top 4 this year is to go for the same strategy
Click to expand...

For Outscoring they had a world class Suarez a fully fit sturridge and a zealous sterling. Now coutinho and maybe benteke can score. No one else can score with the same level.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.