Some? You're being too polite there. Benteke/Sturridge is the best striking duo in the Premier League, only City might have a claim just because Aguero is so good. Martial/Rooney, Giroud/Walcott, Diego Costa/Falcao and Kane/Son aren't better.
Liverpool : General discussion
- Thread starter Yorkeontop
- Start date
Individually speaking... Kane/Son vs Sturridge/Benteke might not be that far apart if Kane can rediscover last years form (which is damn likely I'd wager). Son has looked very good so far to be fair.
Costa/Remy/Falcao loses out to Sturridge/Benteke/Ings.
Rooney/Martial/Wilson I'd also put behind Sturridge/Benteke/Ings. While Martial does look like an awesome talent, I've seen nothing this season to suggest that Rooney isn't entirely past it.
Giroud/Walcott/Welbeck. Not bad as we're working under the idea that they're fit. In reality, though, Sturridge, Walcott, and Welbeck are all made of glass, so yeah... That's not good.
Sergio is a god. It's not fair to compare
I obviously didn't mean together as a duo on the pitch, I meant individually. They're both a guarantee for goals and should be entering their prime.
Based on what evidence?
I don't know your team very well, TBH. Will watch it closely on Saturday. But generally speaking, for Kloppo's style of football there are some special qualities needed.
On defence i.e. pressing: Stamina, a lot. Never stop pressing. Kloppo is using pressing not only occasionally like most managers do, he wants it for 90 minutes. From all players, including "star" strikers. For defenders it means they must be able to anticipate, because if the first pressing wall of strikers and midfielders breaks down, the defenders have to clean it up still in midfield. Otherwise it turns into ugly counters.
On offence: Who of your bunch can play precise up tempo one-touch-football? Because that's the real secret after you won the ball from pressing. Kloppo doesn't want dribblings, no one-on-one-isolations. He wants high speed quick and direct passing, involving many players. Ideally at least the front 5 or 6 should be capable of it. He wants for sure not what I see so often in EPL football: The guy who just won the ball immediately starts running forward with the ball, no matter what -- to me that looks like headless chicken football, the phenotype of old fashioned English football (sorry). That's pretty much exactly what he hates because direct passing will always move the ball much faster than running with the ball.
Interesting times ahead: Maybe he will adjust to English football. Or English football will adjust to him. We'll see.
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Hendo & Lallana are real work horses that can press from start to (almost) the end (Lallana gasses about 70 minutes [at least at Southampton]). Coutinho can also get stuck in, although he's never been pushed to Oscar like levels for long periods of time.
And on offence?
Pressing hard. Isnt this Firminio's main strength, his ability as a striker to constantly harrass defenders?. Sort of like Suarez did but not with Suarez ability with the ball?
Bony + Aguero >
You're right, Firmino can press very well. I have seen quite some doubts about him here recently. Which is kind of strange to me. I can only imagine that you haven't seen him yet at full strength, which might be because of his fitness or his place in the former system. He's not a world beater, but he is a very very good footballer, very skilled but not selfish. I'm convinced he will shine under Klopp. I even believe to remember that there were quite some rumors that Klopp wanted to sign him back in summer 2014 but couldn't because he was too expensive.
I see here an emphasizing on the pressing aspect of Klopp's match plan. But that's just the one side of the medal. The other is the quick one-touch-football. Pressing in Kloppo's way works only if you are able to convert the gained possession at full speed.
Bender and Gundogan are nothing alike. Bender is a solid tackler and marker who you frequently lose track of in a game because he's nullifying the other team and playing good simple passes (think a James McCarthy type) while Gundogan, on form, runs past people and plays brilliant passes, like Scholes or Fabregas during a particularly strong dribbling game.
According to reports from Germany he wanted to take Benteke to BD. I think he's a fan. However this is what Pearce had to say about Klopp's preferred formation / tactics :
Klopp’s favoured formation at Borussia Dortmund involved a sole striker, with midfielders and wingers scurrying in support to attack from all angles.
My post in early September, and I stand by it. Liverpool are better placed for that 4th spot than Chelsea.
Yes, I've seen a number of those reports too. Firmino must be loving Klopp's appointment and I really expect Klopp to get the best out of him. Once he's fit I expect he'll be an automatic starter, he already has very good pressing stats under BR.
Pressing stats? That moneyball, isn't it?
Errrr no.
What is it then? Help me, please.
So, it's confirmed
'Ja, I'm well aware of Liverpool's heritage and that's why wir shall play mit 3-5-2 to commemorate last manager.'
Moneyball is a formula devised in the USA (baseball) of trying to find value for money (or under-valued) players by the use (or some would say 'over use') of statistical analysis.
Pressing stats are how many 'presses' have been made by any one player (or a team) in a match or season. WhoScored.com is a good source.
Lallana has all the making of one of the first exits of the new regime. More than a year in, he still takes takes a ridiculous amount of touches on the ball all the time and is gassed after 60 minutes.
So long, Adam.
Let's say then that whoever our second choice is of the two, he's the best second choice in the league.
I still don't rate Can at all, but I could see him doing a decent job in a box to box midfield role under Klopp. He's not intelligent enough to play as a defender or a holding midfielder and needs to be upgraded soon though. Could be a decent option for the bench, but that's it.
I'd love to be proven wrong, I always want German players to do well, but I just can't see it.
Coutinho/Sturridge/Ings and maybe Firmino? No idea on Firmino really.
DJ Spoony needs a knighthood 
The greatest thing Klopp will bring to Liverpool is his knowledge and understanding of the talent within Germany. It is such an untapped market, so many gems to be found and Klopp knows how to find gems.
Just chance upon this hilarious application by a liverpool fan
http://www.espnfcasia.com/blog/the-...-liverpool-job-and-gets-reply-from-chief-exec
http://www.espnfcasia.com/blog/the-...-liverpool-job-and-gets-reply-from-chief-exec
Well, let's don't forget that Klopp had, unsurprisingly, a couple of not so well fitting transfers, within the Bundesliga or from outside.
Limiting it to the Bundesliga, Julian Schieber first comes to mind, also Leo Bittencourt or Moritz Leitner.
Finding talent like Reus wasn't difficult.
Ginter is difficult to judge at this point but again, his talent was obvious (won German DFB youth medals which not many defenders do).
Erik Durm is difficult to judge upon (1 good season and one in which he had been either injured or performed mediocre at best).
Jonas Hofmann and Adrian Ramos to me not are no success stories yet.
Marian Sarr struggles in the 2nd team.
Sokratis is a fantastic buy but again he wasn't difficult to identify.
Looking at the players he won the titles with:
Hummels joined Dortmund 6 months before Klopp came on board, no credit to him here. Kuba had joined even earlier.
Nuri Sahin and Mario Götze came through BVB's academy.
Gündogan's talent was as obvious as Reus'. Which leaves it basically to Sven 'Manni' Bender, Neven Subotic, Kevin Großkreutz (bought back from a lower tier club), Marcel Schmelzer (from 2nd BVB team), Lukasz Piszczek who were all instrumental to Klopp's success from 2010-12 but had gone under the radar.
His track record with players from outside the Bundesliga is IMHO actually better.
Taken together, I'm not saying Klopp doesn't know how to unearth good players. All I'm saying is let's not get carried away with what the media tries to sell and check against reality.
I'd take that bet.
Once Mourinho finally has Ivanovic euthanized Chelsea's backline will improve, Fabregas-Matic is almost comically superior to Liverpool's midfield and 1 of Costa or Hazard will be back to their usual self. Pedro, Willian and Oscar are solid enough players too.
Liverpool will still be starting Mignolet, Moreno, 2 of Skrtel, Sakho and Lovren, a brainless DM or mediocre Lucas and Sturridge's health is a massive question mark.
Kudos to Liverpool for answering, it's a simple but good PR-trick imo
Deal.
It was never about individual players at Chelsea this season. It's easy to put blame on off-form key players. The problem is motivation. Mourinho's siege mentality fades away by third season, alienating and antagonizing elements of the club. Player for player, Chelsea are far superior, but as a team, when they step out to play, Liverpool will have more attack, purpose and desire than Chelsea this season. That's what I am betting on here.
It's pointless in football though because the game is much more free flowing than baseball. Doesn't prevent a number of caftards from posting loads of strange statistics that prove that player A is superior to player B because he has a 1.6% higher pass completion and 0.15 more interceptions per week.
Mourinho is nearly as stubborn as van Gaal, he is not going to axe Ivanovic anytime soon I believe. He would if that made him controversial but since it's a sensible way out, it might not appeal to him much.
Klopp has become the next messiah all of a sudden, his career has taken such a nosedivesince reaching the cl final, should have been at an elite club but his last season at Borrusia exposed him. Poor transfers and tactics stifled his career, instead of walking out in the Madrid dugout, he now has to lead out a midtable cub to deluded former glory.
Suddenly all their players have this new found ability, lallana will be turning into ronaldhino and benteke morphing into eto'o, as Klopp will lead them to the promised land blah blah blah, as long as Liverpool fans remain in this dream like deluded superiority, they and their unfortunate managers will be doomed to fail.
I've heard their cries get a bit more silent since 1991, tedious doesn't even cover it, delusions of grandeur sums it up nicely.
Suddenly all their players have this new found ability, lallana will be turning into ronaldhino and benteke morphing into eto'o, as Klopp will lead them to the promised land blah blah blah, as long as Liverpool fans remain in this dream like deluded superiority, they and their unfortunate managers will be doomed to fail.
I've heard their cries get a bit more silent since 1991, tedious doesn't even cover it, delusions of grandeur sums it up nicely.
I don't believe they will become a top team suddenly but realistically, Klopp definitely will be able to push them up another level.
As LVG found out, the PL is like no other league in the world. It's going to surprise him at first....which means it's going to take him time to get used to it and understand it. He isn't THAT experienced a manager. However, there is no doubting he has big potential to be very successful. We will have to wait and see.
I just can't see it in the madhouse of the bpl,unless he unearths some gems (very unlikely in this day and age) he will get outgunned on every transfer be it wage or signing on fee.
Liverpool are so far behind it will take a rich Arab to bail then out, years of bad decisions and strange investment decisions, plus not expanding Anfield has left then behind, the only thing they have left is history and now the mighty United have even surpassed that.
have they won the league yet and has rogers released a charity single with the money from his severance package?
This is just so much bullshit though.
I swear to god, ever since Ferguson left this place has been infected with a fatalism that says money is the sole factor in the game. It's not only boring and dull for every discussion to fall back to, it's also not anywhere near as true as people make it out to be.
Loads of top class players get 'unearthed' without any real competition from big clubs. Even 'big' names.
We signed Alonso, Torres and Suarez without any of the big guns wanting to have a go. Spurs signed Modric and Eriksen without competition. There is nothing in the market about players of that stature today that has changed compared to back then.
Are we going to get outgunned if we bid for Pogba or Benzema? Probably. But those aren't the ones we'd target anyway. Under Ferguson, you guys wouldn't have bothered either and you still managed just fine.