Liverpool 2018/19
- Thread starter Adisa
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.Indeed. Think you're a good poster personally, tend to agree with a lot of your posts.
I think you're right that Liverpool probably did pay significantly over market value for Alisson and VVD, but to be honest I almost respect them for it. The club identified two weak areas and went out and fixed them, no half measures, no going for the 'maybe it'll work' option in the 30m range, just a proven player in both positions. I don't think Van Djik is 'the best in the league' (let's wait till he's had a full season for Liverpool, shall we?) but he has many attributes they were missing and seems to work well in a Klopp side. Alisson again can't really be judged until the end of the season, but if he replicates his form for Roma then he'll be a massive upgrade on Karius. If the club can afford it and it puts them up a level then who cares? Remember when Liverpool spent a ton of money on 'meh' players like Aspas, Alberto, Balotelli, Lambert, Lallana (ended up decent tbf) etc? That was a genuinely laughable transfer policy, these days I can't help but admire the fact that they pay what is needed for the players Klopp wants, I think really it's what most fans want.
Opposition fans laughing at the Pogba fee weren't really laughing, if that makes sense. You were far from at your best yet still able to attract one of Europe's best midfielders, in the prime of his career .. nobody was really finding it hilarious that United were bringing in a quality talent. I remember it changing from 'Pogba would never join you' to 'Ha! Yeah you got him but your club overpaid!!' as if they wouldn't be over the moon if he was playing for their team. Same story with Alexis Sanchez, it went very quickly from 'he only wants City' to 'what a money grabber, United overpaying as usual!' it's just standard bitterness from opposition fans who don't want their rival clubs to sign (on paper) top class players. If you can clearly afford it, which United can, who cares? It's not like walking in to Tesco, transfer fees are dependent on so many factors.
Basically, I'm not really arsed about transfer fees. We were linked to Zaha for 60-70m, obviously a fee that would have been laughed at, but I didn't really care and would have just liked him to be playing for Spurs. As long as it isn't destroying the clubs finances it doesn't really matter, IMO.
I agree with all that. I think in some ways the fact a number of LFC fans were unwilling to backtrack regarding the fees, and are now suggesting VVD is one of the worlds best, is what gets tiresome. Similarly with Alisson.
They are spending the Coutinho money which is obvious. Fair play to them in that respect as it's being reinvested well even if they are paying well over the odds.
It's the hipocrisy (from Klopp too) which irritates I guess. I think if you can afford it then spend it but accept you're doing just that. Don't try and hide behind net spend and claim you're the underdog when you're breaking transfer records in various positions.
Yeah, that's understandable. I do remember plenty of Liverpool fans laughing at United for paying huge fees, but then it becoming not a problem when their own club do the same thing. That's just standard football fan hypocrisy really though isn't it? I feel like fans of all clubs are pretty much the same, it's that tribalism coming in to play.
Klopp definitely opened himself up to criticism when he said that stuff about 'I would never pay this blah blah blah' earlier in his career. I guess he never thought he'd have those kind of funds available? It's definitely hypocritical and deserves a mention, like any manager if the resources are there to make his job easier, he'll use them. Managers are under such immense pressure these days, so they aren't going to let principles get in the way of potential success, and Klopp is no different in that respect.
The first step is accepting that you have a problem. Now we move onto stage 2...
In all seriousness though I can understand your frustrations and the number of new Liverpool fans on her has increased over the summer. Think of it as a win-win for you though. If Liverpool win the league most of our fans on here will be banned, and if we don't then it's another year without one.
I can't really comment as much about your own fans but there's a lot of doom and gloom at the moment. Mourinho's done a better job than Klopp has so far in terms of what he's achieved. Two trophies and an improvement from 6th to 2nd is a very good return. I think some of your fans see us playing nice football though and remember how you used to play under Ferguson. Some seem to value that more than they do results.
Fair enough re Pickford/Alisson, we can agree to disagree on that comparison. Klopp's got a habit of talking too much but I think he made the mistake of underestimating how much the market would inflate in future windows and he got caught out. He'll come under a lot of criticism if we continue to have defensive issues. He's reaching that point now where he really has to deliver a trophy. I'll be critical of him if we finish 4th and win nothing again.
Thanks. It's all about opinions I guess, some people agree with me more than others.
I didn't think that the amounts United were paying were hilarious. I just don't think Pogba has performed consistently enough to justify his fee yet though. Lukaku looked like a 75 million pound striker immediately which is why his fee never really comes up.
If they sold him I think they'd get more than they paid. I've always been of the view that Pogba gets waayyyy too much stick, 6 goals 10 assists for a central midfielder last season is a good return. Do I think he can be even better and do more? Sure, but I still think he's been one of the best around in his position for the last couple of seasons in the Prem, he's certainly one of the midfielders I dread Spurs facing. His ability to keep the ball under pressure is unreal and you know he's always good for a world class pass or two a game.
Anyway, this isn't the Pogba thread or even a United thread so I'll leave it there. Even if he hasn't justified it though, does it really matter? United can clearly afford it, if they sell him they'll make it back easily, and he's still been an important player for them. I don't think Van Djik has justified being a 75 mil CB yet (what can he actually do to justify that price in his position?) but it doesn't really matter because Liverpool had the money and needed a player in that position, and he's obviously done well for you.
Football fans care waaaayy too much about their clubs finances, as long as we aren't risking bankruptcy or wasting money on utter crap, I'm not really too bothered how much we spend. I just want the squad improved, it's definitely better to overspend for example than to not improve at all.
That's all fair enough and pretty honest of you. As I said I think you can still be saved
I think JM has done the dirty work that needed doing post LvG. Some don't seem to appreciate that. Hopefully, and with some stability, the pretty stuff will come (I am firmly in the camp of settling for something with less success but a progressive style and philosophy over time if needs be).
I think alot under estimate what needed to be done at United when SAF and Gill left. Not only with the squad but with the backroom and board.
This!
These Vermin fans wondering why people are having a pop at them and their fantastic Football Club...on a United forum.
This may very well happen. I think it is pretty much a given that United are going to win the league (I really cannot see anyone stopping us at this point) but the next 5 places are completely in the balance. Literally impossible to predict.
Liverpool could easily end up 4th or worse. Watching your mob berate Klopp will be fun.
@Oga on top. used to be good, but the Ramos incident tipped him over the edge.
Soon he'll go batshit crazy and start posting PhaseOfPlay type analysis of what could have happened in the CL final.
Soon he'll go batshit crazy and start posting PhaseOfPlay type analysis of what could have happened in the CL final.
Always makes me laugh when you hear someone say: "I wouldn't pay £50 million for him, he's only worth £30 million at best". I mean really, who gives a toss how much any club pays for a certain player ? The whole footballing world was shocked when Ferguson paid £30 million for Rio Ferdinand back in 2002. But when you look back at what United achieved with him as their defensive rock for the next 10 years or so, the money paid was peanuts in comparison. So with regards to VVD, he's only just starting on what, hopefully for us, will be a long & successful career. If he, Allison, & the other young lads we have at the back (TAA, Gomez, & Robertson) continue in the same vein, then we'll have a good, solid, defensive base for many years to come, & the £75 million we paid for Van Dijk won't get a mention.
I nearly fell off my chair when I logged on to Betfair the other day & saw United priced at 18/1 to win the league. Say what you like about Mourinho but his track record speaks for himself, anyone writing him off is a mug as far as I'm concerned. I've stuck £25 on your man having United deep in the title challenge as the season progresses.
Take oppo fans out of the football forum & this will be a typical Liverpool related thread: Liverpool are shite ........Well said bro, totally agree ........Their team, & the manager are one big joke ha,ha .........end of thread.
Is that really what people want ? I've never posted on RAWK because of their reluctance to allow too many non-Liverpool fans on there. They even ban some Liverpool supporters who's opinions go outside of the mainstream view of anything relating to their club. I like to have my opinions challenged that's why I post on a United forum. It would be a boring f**king world, & one big echo chamber, if everyone pretty much agreed with everyone else. At the end of the day they're only words & opinions. If people can't handle them, or can't come up with a credible opinion of their own, then maybe forums in general are probably not the place they should be wasting their precious time on.
City was odds-on when last I checked. I can't remember the last time a team was odds-on to win the league before a ball had even been kicked. Sign of the times I guess.
As outside bets go, you could do far worse than back United at 18/1. With all the shite that's gone on over the summer - the Pogba + Martial situations, the lack of spending in the transfer market and people generally believing Jose is past his best - I wouldn't put it past the man to pull it off.
This year is our year.
Even if he does I think the majority on here would still want him gone. I think we need to finish top 2 and be a lot closer to actually winning the title for me to be happy for him to stay. Consecutive top 2 seasons after what we’ve seen since SAF would be at least showing stability of results. I think at the very least that would be a good basis on which to change manager if that’s what the club decides to do in the summer as well. I’d be much more confident seeing pooch or ZZ take over a Man United that’s regained that stability.
Kudos my man, well said.
Still. Feck Liverpool
.Anyway, I think your comparison for VVD to Rio is apt, but the issue is we bought Evra and Vidic to compliment, to really solve our defensive line. Ok, Robertson could be your Evra, although I think his strengths are more attacking. You need to find your Vidic though. Lovren, Gomes, Matip, I’m afraid they just don’t cut it for me. I think you’ll still see a fair few of the mistakes you saw last season at the back. That being said, it’s quite clear that VVD still has upgraded your defensive line on his own.
They are members just as you are a member.
We can all be civilized adults right? I'm a Liverpool fan and yes I don't have any love for United - however every single post I make is to make constructuve discussion - I think the reason RedCafe is a good forum is because there's supporters of many teams here - this allows for different perespectives, and some people can bring an insight into their team which only a hardcore fan would know.
Or, you could go the RAWK way. Where fans of Liverpool (like me) are banned for weeks for saying Henderson is poor when he's being pressed and I'd honestly take Drinkwater over him on actual playing ability. So its the constructive, intelligent debate which is normally what this site is like vs the cult of scientology mentality at RAWK.
Yeah I think they're around the 4/5 mark at the moment, & Liverpool are 7/2 2nd favourites. Considering United finished 2nd last season, 18/1 is outrageous, not to say generous. With the exception of Spurs at home, your first 8 games or so should see you acquire a points total that would have you in a pretty strong league position, which in turn would see your odds drop dramatically & could be a good point to cash out for a healthy profit. Your summer reminds me of ours in 2013/14 when the only major signing we made was Mo Sakho. Liverpool fans were suicidal at the lack of investment considering how poorly we'd done the previous season. But contrary to everyone's expectations we took the title race to the very final day of the season. I'm not convinced that either you, or us, have enough to finish above City. But I know football is very, very, unpredictable, so lumping a few quid on one of our rivals, especially at such ridiculously high odds, seems like a no-brainer to me. Of course, I could be wrong, & you may not get the good start I predicted, so my £25 might go up in smoke. If that's the case, I'm sure I'll learn to cope with the disappointment
Kudos my man, well said.
Still. Feck Liverpool
Anyway, I think your comparison for VVD to Rio is apt, but the issue is we bought Evra and Vidic to compliment, to really solve our defensive line. Ok, Robertson could be your Evra, although I think his strengths are more attacking. You need to find your Vidic though. Lovren, Gomes, Matip, I’m afraid they just don’t cut it for me. I think you’ll still see a fair few of the mistakes you saw last season at the back. That being said, it’s quite clear that VVD still has upgraded your defensive line on his own.
History shows that the signings of Vidic & Evra were very good ones. Although I do think Ferdinand sometimes made Vidic look better than he was, just in the same way Lovren looks far more comfortable playing alongside VVD. Although I have to say, I think we can do much better than the Croatian & I reckon Klopp will phase him out for an upgrade in the next year or two.
Ferdinand made Vidic look better? Vidic's best years 2009 and 11, were when Rio was mostly crocked.
Vidic in his prime was one of the best centre backs in the world. He excelled with or without Rio beside him, and it was only 2013/14 when his legs started to go that he started to look a bit shaky. The man was an absolute monster at the back. Rio was a better footballer, but Vidic wasn't shabby, and one of the best no-nonsense types you're ever likely to see. They were one of the best partnerships ever because both of them were excellent defenders in their own right, and both immensely better than Dejan fecking Lovren.
I've got no more than 400 quid to my name, but 18/1 makes me want to put 25% of my remaining money on the title.
Not worried about them winning anything big until the actually do it, Liverpool have been perennial bottlers for years now and them winning the Champions League or Premier League is the equivalent of England winning a major trophy.
Liverpool just like England always have their dreams end in heartbreaking fashion and I can't wait for the next Karius clanger, Gerrard slip or Crystanbul moment as it's going to be hilarious to see them fail in spectacular fashion again.
Liverpool just like England always have their dreams end in heartbreaking fashion and I can't wait for the next Karius clanger, Gerrard slip or Crystanbul moment as it's going to be hilarious to see them fail in spectacular fashion again.
We hope.
People are going to say I'm mad but I think there in with a great chance of winning the Premier League (Obviously) and Champions League. They have recruited what they needed fix in the squad and shown ambition and their style of play is very hard for any side to deal with
They are right up there with the likes of City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus for winning the Champions League and they will give City a real go at winning the league
They are right up there with the likes of City, Real Madrid, Barcelona, Juventus for winning the Champions League and they will give City a real go at winning the league
Yep. No hugs. If we would have won the CL there would have been holding back.
Which is how it should be and how it always was. The same way if I come on to a Liverpool forum and started winding people up I'd expect dogs abuse and a ban.
No team is in with a great chance of winning the Premier League and Champions League, as evidenced by the fact that it's only been done twice in the history of both competitions (Manchester United 1998/99 & 2007/08). Liverpool finished 5th when they won it in 2004/05, and Chelsea finished 6th when they won it in 2011/12. Even if you include losing English finalists, you've only got Manchester United 2008/09 & 2010/11 as losing CL finalists and PL winners. Arsenal 2005/06 finished 4th, Liverpool 2006/07 finished 3rd, Chelsea 2007/08 finished 2nd, and Liverpool 2017/18 finished 4th. The only one of those four that got remotely close to the title was Chelsea in 2007/08.
Liverpool have recruited well, but we've only seen one English club reach successive CL finals, and that was arguably the best English club side ever (Manchester United 2007-09), and Liverpool finished 25 points adrift of City last season. Unless City truly go all out for the CL, I can't see them losing too much ground on last season, with even 12 points dropped still leaving Liverpool needing to make up 13 points on them and finish on ~90 points for the league.
Not yet.. I'm currently investigating why you still remain on the site. It's a complex investigation whereby I'm interviewing each mod to try and establish which one you're having sexual relations with.
Liverpool may need to have the best league campaign in their history to win the PL this season. Their record in today's terms was 98 pts from 42 games (78/79). If they win 89 pts this season, it will be their best league season to date. However, it might not be enough as City can win 90+ pts.
It's pretty much the problem. Guardiola has been a league machine wherever he's gone. We could put together our best points tally in the past 30 years and still not win it.
I reckon 90 is our max, if everything pans out perfectly.
If city get more, not much to do than hold our hands up and say we lost out to a better side.
Realistically, I think we'll do well to finish with 85-87 points. Don't think that'll be enough.
City's Huddersfield massacre has already taken the wind out my sails. I don't see how they can be beaten to the title. Here's hoping for some encouragement from Wolves this weekend.
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