Vertonghen.
Liverpool 2018/19
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Vertonghen.
I'd have said fair enough if you named Alderweireld although he's barely played last season, but Vertonghen, nah. Consistently very good, but misses that extra element to his game to be as good as the likes of Van Dijk.
Fair. I actually think Vert is better than Toby, was fantastic last season but it seemed to go under the radar a bit. Brilliant on the ball.
Toby if he can get back to his 16/17 self. VVD being the best isn't laughable though, we really have no established world class centre backs in the league, he's undeniably up there with the best. Has pretty much everything you'd want in a CB.
Vertonghen is a class above VVD
I'd say vice versa.
Well you would wouldn't you
VVD is definitely not a 'class above' Vertonghen. I don't mind thinking that he's better, but Vertonghen has been one of the best central defenders in the league for a while now. He goes unappreciated for some reason, people always seemed to think of him as the weaker side of the partnership with Toby, yet he was fantastic last season, best in the league IMO. I think he was actually most appreciated in his debut season, where his defending really wasn't that good but he scored a lot of goals .. which says a lot about fan mentality!
I prefer him to Toby, personally. Will be gutted when he leaves.
I prefer him to Toby, personally. Will be gutted when he leaves.
Like you said Vertonghen was comfortably the best CB in the league last season and before that was part of the best CB partnership in the league for 1 or 2 seasons with Alderweireld. VVD has done nothing yet to deserve to be mentioned as better than Vertonghen
Perhaps @SquishyMcSquish is right (good post by the way)
Okay look, for me, the idea of conceding defeat to City before the season has even begun directly contradicts that which is the very essence of a football fan; hope and expectation. Obviously, your hopes and expectations differ depending on which football club you choose to follow. For instance, relegation candidates such as West Brom, Stoke, Huddersfield and Southampton hope only to avoid their fate but most likely expect to go down. Then you have your middling clubs (both upper and lower) such as Newcastle, Fulham, Leicester and Everton whose only realistic hope is winning a domestic cup, qualifying for the EL and/or progressing up the table. What they expect is difficult to predict given the nature of a middling club, but either a high or low finish is both plausible and to be expected in equal measure. Finishing in positions 5 & 6 is to be considered, for the sake or argument anyway (and to keep the post shorter in length), limbo status - neither here nor there.
The top four clubs in England are as follows: Liverpool, United, Spurs and City (you may or may not agree) and they should, in my opinion anyway, share the same hopes and expectations for the season ahead; winning the premier league and/or the CL. Especially when one of those clubs, Liverpool in this instance, reached the CL final the season prior and used that as a precursor to spending wildly in the transfer market, boosting an already excellent squad in the process. That said, why is it so hard to expect Liverpool to aim for a title challenge this season given the circumstances? I both hope and expect United to win it. I'm well aware of how good this City team is, but surely the rest of the top 4 should be using the example they set last season as inspiration to perform above and beyond their capability, rather than the complete and utter capitulation that appears to be the case in this thread and the forum altogether.
Remember this is just my opinion and is entirely debatable like most things in football.
Indeed. I think it would be best for Liverpool fans to wait at least until the end of the season before making those sort of claims, though I do think VVD is very good.
Insults is all you've got. That won't cut it.
And I'm the troll? Coming from the person who contributes very little to the thread beyond the occasional 'good post' here and there. As if all you can offer is a show of solidarity to your compatriots - which is nothing more than a thinly veiled troll attempt - because you lack an original thought of your own.
Vertonghen had quite a poor WC as well. He's not that fast anymore and is prone to the occasional mistake (which Van Dijk also has as a weakness). I'm not saying Van Dijk is world class or anything, the league is just devoid of great CBs right now and I don't rate Vertonghen as high as you do, he's a liability for Belgium and bailed out quite a few times by the superior Alderweireld imo. Like I said, yes he has consistently been very good for some years now, but he misses that extra something to be in the top class of CBs for me.
Can't say much for his appearances for Belgium, you would know more about that than me obviously. For Spurs though he's fantastic, always a calm head, great ability on the ball and honestly doesn't make many mistakes. He's not perfect - no cb in the world is right now - but he has been consistently brilliant in the league for a while now.
I think judging players on internationals is dodgy, though. In terms of how they perform in the premier league, Vertonghen has undeniably been one of the best in his position in the last couple of years.
I’ve said it before, but it’s worth repeating: there is no giddiness like Scouse giddiness.
Please keep it up!
I think hope and expectation are entirely separate, I go in to every season hoping we will win the league but I'd never expect it, and I don't judge it a failure when we don't. Just like I'm sure Liverpool fans won't be screaming failure if they finish second to this City side. Liverpool had a CL run, but that's entirely different to being consistent across a league campaign and they were 25 points behind City last season. I get your views on capitulating, and honestly I wish I was more optimistic, but if I think rationally I can't see past City. It's a horrible feeling to be honest, trust me I don't want to think of them as this unstoppable juggernaut but then I look at the depth in the squad compared to others and I can't help but be pessimistic.
Guardiola is a world class manager. I can't see them dropping their level, and I don't see any other team capable of reaching that level. Liverpool can in a one off match, but across a league season? I don't think so, personally. Again, hope I am entirely incorrect.
Agree.
It's not an insult it's what you've stated earlier in the thread. You said he either wins the league or he's a fraud. You even tried to downplay his accomplishments at Dortmund as Bayern were "in transition" according to you even though they had their top stars at relatively young ages.
Liverpool should challenge for the league, as should all top 6 clubs with City the favourites to win it.
This is actually a good post, much better than the usual "money spent, win or fraud" stuff on here.
But, as some already mentioned, there's a difference between hope and expectations. Everton definitely dreams of CL places and after their recent spending you can say there's some possibility for this to happen, but it would be delusional to expect top 4 from Everton.
All of top 6 have adequate chances to win the league, but as long as they are not more than 50% you'd better not have any expectations.
I expect our team to get relatively close to the future champion if we won't win it. I also expect us not to be embarrassed by any side, even if it's RM or Barca (e.g. like Arsenal became an international joke after their recent Bayern clashes). I expect we go into every game with intention to win and the lads fight till the end. Other than that, there's too many things outside of manager's or player's control.
No idea what you are on about. Like I said bleak place to live.
Checks to see who you support... yep figures
The meltdown when it comes - and it always comes - is going to be extra delicious this season.
There's going to be a lot of scouse cnuts shaking their heads and claiming conspiracy theories / bad luck etc when they don't win the league this season.
Reckon it'll start to go south just as the CL group games start and a couple of injuries occur. That high energy 100 mile per hour stuff has burned Liverpool out mid-season for the past 3 years. Even with a slightly deeper squad I can't see that changing.
There's going to be a lot of scouse cnuts shaking their heads and claiming conspiracy theories / bad luck etc when they don't win the league this season.
Reckon it'll start to go south just as the CL group games start and a couple of injuries occur. That high energy 100 mile per hour stuff has burned Liverpool out mid-season for the past 3 years. Even with a slightly deeper squad I can't see that changing.
No it hasn't.
15/16 we changed managers in October and Klopp struggled initially before finding some form in the league from about February onward.
16/17 we started the season brilliantly were within a few points away from Chelsea at the end of December but had an awful January. We recovered and finished 4th.
17/18 we started the season poorly and got better as it went on.
There's little evidence to suggest that we burn out, or even that we play this high energy, headless chicken football that some of you associate with us. Can you actually provide some sort of proof that we 'burned out' mid-season in each of the last three seasons?
Do you actually understand how gegenpressing works ? It's a lot more scientific than having 10 men chase around like lunatics trying to win the ball back. Besides, you have absolutely nothing to back up your assumption that we 'burn out' due to our supposed higher energy running. Our poor period last year came in the first part of the season. After that we pretty much matched the likes of United & Spurs in points gained, goals conceded etc. All this despite losing Coutinho in January, going all the way to the final in the CL, & fielding weakened sides towards the end of the season. It may come as something of a surprise to you but we're nowhere near the top of the table for teams who cover the most distance during a football match. So whilst it may look like some of our players are breaking the speed limit during a match, it's done in a controlled way to help keep the opposition in their own half. Once they do enter our half, a plan of containment takes place, which involves a lot less running & focuses more on stifling the opposition. It's not every manager's cup of tea, because it takes a lot of work & preparation on the training ground, not to mention getting in the right players who can implement it out there on the field of play. But all the signs are it's working very well for us under Klopp. Whether or not we gain success from it in the future, who knows ? But it's our identity, it's who we are. & it's all a bit too simplistic to dismiss it on the basis of nothing but a misguided myth.
https://www.premierleague.com/news/510837
It's not the gegenpressing that's burnt us out, it's having no squad depth. The bench looked strong on Saturday for us, and there's still a few to come back i believe.
He he he - look at them all get defensive.
It wasn't so long ago that you were all making excuses about not having the squad depth to compete on all fronts and play 2 high profile games in a week - which you've all also cited as the main justification for the big transfer splurge of the last 12 months.
I'd also say from watching you play many times that there is a definite lull in your play around the 65-75 minute mark. Teams that weren't already 4-0 down due to having managers who thought a high line was the way to go against you, often then started to come into the game and even score some late goals to deny you wins.
It wasn't so long ago that you were all making excuses about not having the squad depth to compete on all fronts and play 2 high profile games in a week - which you've all also cited as the main justification for the big transfer splurge of the last 12 months.
I'd also say from watching you play many times that there is a definite lull in your play around the 65-75 minute mark. Teams that weren't already 4-0 down due to having managers who thought a high line was the way to go against you, often then started to come into the game and even score some late goals to deny you wins.
But the two things are linked. The style of play is highly physically demanding but the thin squad depth means that you need to keep your better players on the pitch for longer meaning they get more tired and take longer to recover.
You've added a bit of depth this summer that's fair enough. However, I'd still argue you are lacking depth in defence and are now relying on Sturridge staying fit to have depth up front. Shaquiri I think will do very well at first but will fade as the season goes on.
Liverpool winning the league would not be a surprise
The phrase 'gegen press' is overplayed and makes me cringe like feck. The constant dynamic of our games at home in the league is that we have the huge majority of possession and teams come and sit in a low block, expecting us to break them down.
I agree, we've finally got some decent depth. However when you compare it to City's it's nowhere near the quality they have on the bench.
Vertonghen has been the best and most consistent CB in the Premier League for the last 3 seasons. VVD has had a great impact at Liverpool, but he's a tier below Vertonghen at the moment, has potential to overtake him though.
He's become a parody lately.
Used to be a good poster but now seems to have fallen into the delusional category. @Klopper76 is going the same way sadly although might be able to save him.
@Tommy is one of the better LFC regulars at the moment along with @Rob.
It's really refreshing, and noticeable, when you get a good objective oppo fan on the board like @SquishyMcSquish.
Do you genuinely believe that VVD is better than Godin, Ramos, Varane, Umtiti, Chielini, Bonucci, Skriniar, Kouilably, Silva, Giminez, Vertonghen, Alderweireld, Azpilicueta just to name a few? He's objectively vastly inferior to a number of those defenders. Or maybe you just like him more because of who he plays for?
It's questionable that he's top 10. I'd have him rated somewhere around 15th to be honest and I'm just going off central defenders.
He's good but he's becoming vastly overrated.
You're only saying that because I call you out on some of the nonsense you post about Liverpool.
I'd argue that I'm far more objective about Liverpool and United than you are about the two clubs.
It's not nonsense because I don't praise your club like some on here you know..
You have become a bit more of a WUM (just like your counterparts here) which has gone hand in hand with your upturn in form. That's understandable to a degree but just don't let yourself get sucked in too much as I know you're capable of better.
Yeah I don't mind him but he does alot more wummery these days which is understandable and in part banter. Think you can still just about have a decent footballing conversation with him mind.
You don't have to praise Liverpool but when you're running straight into the Alisson thread after we've signed him to say that we should've signed Pickford, it comes across as nonsense to me. If you'd posted stats or offered a decent argument as to why you think Pickford would've been better for Liverpool than Alisson then I would've been more open minded regarding your opinion.
You WUM more than I do, we both know that. You love bating oppo's.
I'm pretty sure you tried it today with an Arsenal fan in the Xhaka thread. Might not have been you though. Can you provide an example of something I've posted which you perceived as a WUM?
You don't have to praise Liverpool but when you're running straight into the Alisson thread after we've signed him to say that we should've signed Pickford, it comes across as nonsense to me. If you'd posted stats or offered a decent argument as to why you think Pickford would've been better for Liverpool than Alisson then I would've been more open minded regarding your opinion.
You WUM more than I do, we both know that. You love bating oppo's.
Can you provide an example of something I've posted which you perceived as a WUM?
I'll have it. I have done more WUMing lately but like most I'm pretty sick of the state of the place at the moment (with so called United fans) and also the uptake in oppo fans behaving like they own the gaff.
If people speak to me properly I'm quite happy to have a reasonable discussion but I'll accept I'm guilty of thinking "I can't be arsed" when you have to sift through alot of the shit that's plastered across the forums currently.
I rate Pickford. I did before Everton signed him and think he's had an excellent 12 months or so. (I've openly said this on the forum for a while if you want to check).I think he's more proven than Becker who was ridiculously priced given he was purchased for €8m by Roma not long ago. Good player, much like VVD, but neither worth what you have paid and I don't think it's wrong to point that out given the criticism United have had regarding Paul Pogba from both your fans and manager.
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