Well, they no longer can pretend to be underdogs, after having spent so much, and having a very good team on paper.
If Klopp wins nothing this season again, no excuses left.
If Klopp wins nothing this season again, no excuses left.
Liverpool 2018/19
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It's the Suarez & Coutinho in/out transfers that we should most annoyed about. If they hadn't of come off to generate stupidly massive profit they could have sunk properly into mid-table obscurity.
If they make another £ 100 M from the previously cock-knockering Shaqiri, some year soon-ish could really be theirs.
If they make another £ 100 M from the previously cock-knockering Shaqiri, some year soon-ish could really be theirs.
Klopp wanted a title within 4 years, and people quoting league finishes appear to be under the impression he meant a league title. He meant a trophy, and we’ve been to 2 European finals, and another final since. The progression is there for all to see.
Yes he has spent money, but there is a profit and loss element all businesses, all people and all companies have to take in to consideration.
People bang on about breaking records for defenders and keepers, saying cash is being splashed and league titles have to come, surely also have to consider that VVD and Alisson come at the cost Barca bought Coutinho for, ie a nice even net result.
Liverpool aren’t a sole team in isolation. There are other big spending teams to consider...UTD have spent over a billion since Ferguson left, including a 100 million, for someone they let go a few years before for buttons, and City have spent more than Liverpool as well.
Suarez also got us 80 odd million too, in other words, provided money for a Firmino and a Salah and 2 Legs and one arm of a Mane.
People can’t sit back and laugh at Liverpool for selling 50 million Sterling, 80 odd million Suarez and 140 million Coutinho and then moan that they then spend that same money to build a competitive squad.
It’s not as though we’re breaking FFP either, and with Liverpool’s income being in the top 7 in Europe, they should be shopping at a decent place.
Let’s be honest, we’ve been shopping st Asda, buying off the shelf players like Konchesky, Benteke, Adam and other crap for too long.
Yes he has spent money, but there is a profit and loss element all businesses, all people and all companies have to take in to consideration.
People bang on about breaking records for defenders and keepers, saying cash is being splashed and league titles have to come, surely also have to consider that VVD and Alisson come at the cost Barca bought Coutinho for, ie a nice even net result.
Liverpool aren’t a sole team in isolation. There are other big spending teams to consider...UTD have spent over a billion since Ferguson left, including a 100 million, for someone they let go a few years before for buttons, and City have spent more than Liverpool as well.
Suarez also got us 80 odd million too, in other words, provided money for a Firmino and a Salah and 2 Legs and one arm of a Mane.
People can’t sit back and laugh at Liverpool for selling 50 million Sterling, 80 odd million Suarez and 140 million Coutinho and then moan that they then spend that same money to build a competitive squad.
It’s not as though we’re breaking FFP either, and with Liverpool’s income being in the top 7 in Europe, they should be shopping at a decent place.
Let’s be honest, we’ve been shopping st Asda, buying off the shelf players like Konchesky, Benteke, Adam and other crap for too long.
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So many Liverpool fans emerging on here, I wonder how many will stick around if they have a bad start.
Honestly you might aswell just make another thread to laugh at Liverpool fans (Rawk meltdown?) or call a spade a spade and acknowledge you're shifting goalposts.
Most the Liverpool fans in here are sound as and have been here for a few years now.
Most the Liverpool fans in here are sound as and have been here for a few years now.
Those other top clubs are spending money because they want to win, hence the pressure is higher. Liverpool wants to be like Man Utd now and just because you sold a few great players for the big bucks doesn't mean you are that holy man. Smooth netspend or not, the pressure will be on whoever invest big in winning. The risk in losing is lesser if you don't invest, you have to choose. Are Liverpool going for it, or are they underdogs? You guys seem to want to have it both ways
Klopp was asked about spending £100 million on a player. He said he wouldn't do it. So how is he a hypocrite if he still hasn't? The anti Liverpool brigade in the media will beat him with a stick because Liverpool have spent substantially.
However here is the positive regarding what Klopp did. He's taken a measured and meticulous approach to transfers and not gone scatter-gun like Rodgers did. Every big money signing he's made fits a purpose. Okay hr's bought average on Klavan and Karius, they cost £9 million for the pair. They are low risk and easy to get a return on.
If you're going to talk about spending big money on average, the guilty party is the media darling Mauricio Pochettinho. He's bought serious average for big money.
Sissoko £30 million flop
Sanchez £42 million flop.
Aurier £30 milliin flop.
Maura £25 million not a flop yet, but hardly set the world alight.
Klopp has spent decent money, £392 million on the last count. However Liverpool to their credit have been savvy regarding sales. On Friday they sold a keeper who cost £100k for £12.5 million. That has taken their sales under Klopp to £267.5 million. Rumour has it and I'm unsure how reliable the source is, Klopp is set to offload Clyne to Crystal Palace for £25 million. That's double the outlay. My initial forecast that Klopp will get his net spend to under £100 million seems to be not far off.
However here is the positive regarding what Klopp did. He's taken a measured and meticulous approach to transfers and not gone scatter-gun like Rodgers did. Every big money signing he's made fits a purpose. Okay hr's bought average on Klavan and Karius, they cost £9 million for the pair. They are low risk and easy to get a return on.
If you're going to talk about spending big money on average, the guilty party is the media darling Mauricio Pochettinho. He's bought serious average for big money.
Sissoko £30 million flop
Sanchez £42 million flop.
Aurier £30 milliin flop.
Maura £25 million not a flop yet, but hardly set the world alight.
Klopp has spent decent money, £392 million on the last count. However Liverpool to their credit have been savvy regarding sales. On Friday they sold a keeper who cost £100k for £12.5 million. That has taken their sales under Klopp to £267.5 million. Rumour has it and I'm unsure how reliable the source is, Klopp is set to offload Clyne to Crystal Palace for £25 million. That's double the outlay. My initial forecast that Klopp will get his net spend to under £100 million seems to be not far off.
Seriously? Did you really sell a keeper for 12.5 million? If true, then congratulations are in order i guess.
Clyne to Crystal Palace, that's great. He hasn't been good at all for Liverpool tho so would be surprised to see him leave for big money, however if true then congratulations. Both sales are going to have a huge impact for Liverpool F.C this coming season. Ain't nobody gonna beat your netspend-argument this season, not this one.
Then instead of him being hypocritical cnut, he is lying cnut. Pogba cost 89 million pounds.
This is what he said, so buying 75 million pounds CB, 66 million GK means it all won't go through chimney if they are injured.
United fans on here giving it large about how we must win the league to justify our spending & that Klopp has no excuses now. If I’m not mistaken, there were a lot of United fans saying that Mourinho should be given time regardless of how much he has spent because he inherited an awful squad from LvG. I agree we need to run City close, but there is no pressure for us to win the thing. We aren’t favourites, we still don’t have the likes of Mahrez and Bernardo to come off the bench.
Even if Klopp fails to win a title or trophy in his time here, he will have done a successful job as his successor will be the first LFC manager in my life time to have the luxury of only needing to tweak the squad and not undertake yet another project.
Even if Klopp fails to win a title or trophy in his time here, he will have done a successful job as his successor will be the first LFC manager in my life time to have the luxury of only needing to tweak the squad and not undertake yet another project.
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I think you're mistaken - the vast majority on here have pretty much said if Jose doesn't challenge this season then he needs to go.
I’m referring to his first and second season.
Simply not true— I want LFC to win things and I think they are in a much better position too now they are investing better... but to just outright ignore the facts on a teams buying and selling to suit an agenda is wrong.
Well if Klopp is sacked because of underperforming squad then you can't say squad is very good.
Today's shiny new toys are tomorrow's deadwood. All the signing are hyped up when they sign, in few years they don't live up to expectations or coach gets sacked, these new shiny toys are considered as deadwood.
I remember how Can was the best midfielder, Sakho was among the best CB, Flanagan was new cafu, Kelly was superb defender, Balotelli was a very good signing because of his record (which was all penalties)
Oh ok - well the squad wasn't strong enough in his first season no doubt about that. We should have challenged last season, I think the fact we didn't is why some want Jose out now.
How was Sanchez a flop? He has played fantastic and surely his value has only gone up? Moura was quite cheap and impressed me towards the end of the season, I'd judge him towards the end of this season personally. Sissoko and Aurier doesn't look like good pieces of business, definitely Sissoko and probably Aurier too. Overall I think Poch has been decent in the market, some risks has to be taken when we can't pay for the sure thing and still need that type of quality to improve. Could obviously be better of course.
On the subject of Liverpool I think all their business make sense, and although its a lot of money I think it's smart buys. Klopp messed up by taking the moral high ground though only to do exactly the same as what he was apparently 'above'.
Where did you hear this from? Liverpool fans on here or from RAWK? RAWK isn’t the only LFC forum, the official club forum doesn’t have any delusional clowns like RAWK does.
Mixture of RAWK and liverpool fans on Caf.
It might not be fair or what you want, but it is what it is. You want them to win and spend big to get there, then you have to face all the pressure that comes with it. It's really simple
Well anyone who says Sanchez flopped obviously haven't got a clue, didn't want to address the point when we have Spurs fans who can.
Rubbish. Mourinho has to win or come very close to winning the league for him the be in the job after this coming season. He won trophies in his first season with us and that’s why he’s got up until the end of this season to deliver. Klopp hasn’t won a single trophy at Liverpool. His time is also now.
Fair enough. For what it’s worth, it seems like it’s become an impossible task to retain the title now. I think the last time that a team won back to back titles was United in 2009.
Maybe City won’t win it.
Impossible is a bit much. Its a hyper competitive league no doubt but that City team is above and beyond the rest of them. I fully expect them to win it again and to also do better vs Liverpool
Liverpool have paid vastly more than Spurs, we are a strange choice to try and make your point tbh.
Err, not really. Klopp hasn't won a single trophy at Liverpool, but has gotten them to a very solid top 4 PL team with an odd CL final also included, improved every single first teamer, got all of his big signings spot on, their squad clearly has gotten much stronger even before this year's big signings despite him literally having spent as much as he has collected through player sales until this season - all this while playing ultra attacking football. If Klopp had quitted right now, another manager'd came in and signed all those expensive players he'd definitively be under pressure to challenge, yes, but Klopp has less pressure because his work until now has been very good considering their club's expectations and they are clearly on an upwards projection with him.
Mou on the other hand came in and albeit I think he has been unfairly treated last season (2nd place finish was really good despite the embarrassing loss against Seville), he has spent a lot of money (also including players with no resale value/short-term fixes and on huge, huge wages like Zlatan, Matic, Sanchez), playing rather "dull" defensive football and never looked like close to challenge for any of the two major trophies (which are the only ones worthy of a club like United). Of course he is going to be under more pressure than Klopp to deliver this year, this is just common sense even if both squads are fairly equal right now.
Bit of a bizarre post. We've certainly signed our fair share of flops but mostly in the 20-40 range of prices. We haven't spent huge money.
Poch has also had huge hits for reasonable prices, the likes of Son, Wanyama, Alderweireld, Trippier, Davies, Alli etc. He has a pretty mixed transfer record.
Anyway it's not the Spurs thread so I don't want to derail, but Poch is a really poor example of a manager spending big.
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Considering Liverpools signings, anything below a top 3 finish as well as a strong CL showing and/or domestic cups must be seen as underperforming now right? Or are there Liverpool fans who would disagree with that?
Yeah, I felt that was too stupid to even address. He's a 22 year old central defender who came in and did an impressive job, I don't think anyone predicted he'd have jumped straight in to first choice but he took full advantage of the Alderweireld situation. He wasn't perfect by any means (what 22 year old cb is?) but he showed a ton of promise.
Snitch.
Considering Liverpools signings, anything below a top 3 finish as well as a strong CL showing and/or domestic cups must be seen as underperforming now right? Or are there Liverpool fans who would disagree with that?
I think they absolutely have to get top 3 and win something. They've spent serious money now and have record breaking players in a couple of positions to go with an excellent attack featuring the best player in the league last season. Anything less than a very clear improvement from last season would be a huge disappointment having invested that much money.
Like I've said before, they cannot have that underdog tag any longer. They are one of the big spenders with big money players across the field and one of the most high profile managers in the world. They've had a couple of seasons of nearly winning a trophy under Klopp, and now he's received full backing and needs to make the next step.
I meant it more in the sense that it looks harder to achieve because no one has done it in the last ten years.
I expect City to win it as well.
So if Klopp is at Liverpool for 6 years and doesn't win a trophy it will be a success, because he's laying the ground work for the next manager?Liverpool fans really are a special breed, always having every angle covered incase failure occurs. Expectations will be higher this year for Liverpool, they have spent as much as anyone else. There can be no excuses if Klopp doesn't deliver this year. Football is about winning trophies, simple as. Liverpool love to paint there own narrative when they don't deliver, they love to play the victim and underdog card any chance they get.
Because at United we have bigger expectations. Our fans even during sir alex era were demanding to an extent even after winning the CL in 08 , we became critical of him for dropping Tevez or after winning league in 10/11, we were critical of him for playing Scholes and Giggs or on many other occasions. That's what United fans are and other big teams like.madrid and barca are also the same(ok maybe not to an extent of Madrid fans who are crazy).
If you think United fans would have been blindly jizzing over klopp like you lot after 3 years then you have no clue. Fans would have been divided for him too if he was not winning and just screwing over at the crunch time. Klopp is performing in a safe atmosphere where you lot are just glad to be in top 4 and score some amazing goals. You lot are reminding me alot of arsenal fans from 2006 to 2013. If klopp doesnt win anything then all this hype will look foolish just like it looked with Wenger post 06. All the pretty football with no substance.
What happened at Liverpool between 1996 & 2003 then?
Because... following up on the team values assessing what I done earlier, if one attempts the same for the 2003 League Cup Final one finds that LFC are fielding players acquired for £ 10 M apiece (Heskey, Diouf, Hamman) while Utd have Veron, Rio, RVN motoring in from the £ 25 M + range isn't it?
Or is this the number of national qualifiers for the Champions League not having evolved up to 4 or 5 & it not being the hugely lucrative Comp that it now is?
What I end up seeing is partly the Souness - aging team story coupled with conservative investment at that time, Souey managed to acquire some really average players. Kenny D ought not to escape some of that criticism either but then there's the extenuating circumstances coming in more forcibly for him I suppose.
Later on from there, the Spice Boys never really broke into trophy winning mode & the Istanbul success looks like a massive fluke by a pile of shit XI - if one is adopting a bitter Manc perspective on it, which I am,.
That's probably the end of my half-hearted investigations anyway. Let's hope that this is another false dawn,.
And we mustn't forget the upcoming pre season friendly must we?
Because... following up on the team values assessing what I done earlier, if one attempts the same for the 2003 League Cup Final one finds that LFC are fielding players acquired for £ 10 M apiece (Heskey, Diouf, Hamman) while Utd have Veron, Rio, RVN motoring in from the £ 25 M + range isn't it?
Or is this the number of national qualifiers for the Champions League not having evolved up to 4 or 5 & it not being the hugely lucrative Comp that it now is?
What I end up seeing is partly the Souness - aging team story coupled with conservative investment at that time, Souey managed to acquire some really average players. Kenny D ought not to escape some of that criticism either but then there's the extenuating circumstances coming in more forcibly for him I suppose.
Later on from there, the Spice Boys never really broke into trophy winning mode & the Istanbul success looks like a massive fluke by a pile of shit XI - if one is adopting a bitter Manc perspective on it, which I am,
.That's probably the end of my half-hearted investigations anyway. Let's hope that this is another false dawn,
.And we mustn't forget the upcoming pre season friendly must we?
"If you're going to talk about spending big money on average, the guilty party is the media darling Mauricio Pochettinho. He's bought serious average for big money.
Sissoko £30 million flop
Sanchez £42 million flop.
Aurier £30 milliin flop.
Maura £25 million not a flop yet, but hardly set the world alight."
Lol …
Sanchez has shown himself - both at Spurs last season and at the World Cup - to be developing into one of the best young CBs in the world.
Moura only joined Spurs in January and is only now having the benefit of a pre-season training with Poch … despite this he was quite impressive IMO in few appearances to date.
Aurier cost around £23m (not £30M) and the time to judge him will be after this 2nd season with Spurs.
Sissoko I'll grant, but even he has been showing signs of improvement.
And I notice the poster left out all the other Pochettino signings, like Trippier, Davies, Alli, Dier, Wanyama, Son, Alderweireld etc … signings whose total cost is little more than what Liverpool have just paid a for GK.
All this money spent and they still seem only decent/alright. Can't be challenging for the title with such an uninspiring midfield - i get that Keita is decent, but Ox-Chamberlain is ruled out for the season, Lallana's constantly injured, Wijnaldum is anonymous most of the time and Milner is no spring chicken. Will battle it out with Chelsea/Arsenal for the last top 4 spot.
I don’t think Klopp wants Liverpool to be like Man UTD, he plays more like City, with attractive football.
Yes, expectations should be higher, but my point, which still stands is Liverpool have not net spent more than UTD or City in the last 5 years, and therefore expectations should not be higher than at those teams, and he shouldn’t be ‘expected’ to win the league like some suggest. He should however be expected to finish higher in the league than last season.
The simple fact is the team have scored more and conceded less season on season since he has been there. It’s progress for all to see.
Yes, expectations should be higher, but my point, which still stands is Liverpool have not net spent more than UTD or City in the last 5 years, and therefore expectations should not be higher than at those teams, and he shouldn’t be ‘expected’ to win the league like some suggest. He should however be expected to finish higher in the league than last season.
The simple fact is the team have scored more and conceded less season on season since he has been there. It’s progress for all to see.
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