Yep. To think I didn't want him when we were linked under LVG. Excellent player.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
They did smash Barca this time last year. And hammered Dortmund one summer. So pre-season Liverpool tend to look better than they are.
Having said that I'm trying to find a way of getting Mane and Firmino into my dream team. There's a lot of goals in them no question.
Having said that I'm trying to find a way of getting Mane and Firmino into my dream team. There's a lot of goals in them no question.
I imagine we'll see similar to the last few years.
They'll score loads and be good to watch but they'll concede too many to mount a proper title challenge.
They'll score loads and be good to watch but they'll concede too many to mount a proper title challenge.
...and very strong in the autumn unit the small squad caught up with them by the Nee Year. I think last season's preseason was an accurate reflection of how good Liverpool were based on how the season went. The Barca performance was replicated over many games against PL opposition.
Bayern have won every Audi Cup since it started. They obviously have a tradition of performing well in it.
They lost 4-0 to milan too though. Bayern haven't exactly been top class this pre season.
Does that line of logic assume that Klopp will stand still and allow the team to continue to operate in the manner you suggest? Would a top class coach not look to develop and coach the side so that they improve in all areas?
I can't predict the future but Klopp is likely to continue his player development.
Liverpool have though. Two 3-0s against German teams in their own stadium. Like last summer, Liverpool look in good shape.
You could see how Liverpool struggled without him last season.
One was hertha Berlin? Not exactly yardstick to compare.
For instance if united win against sampdoria no one is going to talk about how amazing we will be because we managed to look excellent vs an average Italian side.
I always prefer it when you lot are approaching this giddy state. Always makes the inevitable collapse so much more hilarious
I always prefer it when you lot are approaching this giddy state. Always makes the inevitable collapse so much more hilarious
Hardly giddy, it's pre-season, all we are saying is we are playing well. That's all, and better than losing games surely.
We didn't exactly collapse last season either as we exceeded many of the residents on here predictions and managed to finish in the top 4, unlike some....
The 4th place trophy, forgot about that.
Forgot about it? There was a meltdown style thread all of last season on here regarding United's chances of finishing top 4.
Was kind of a big neuroses for many forum members...
Not from me, check post history. Top 4 doesn't guarantee success.
Trophies > 4th place.
I agree. Although had Liverpool won the League Cup and come 5th I don't think that would have been good strategically. Getting into the CL is an important step for Liverpool - more than winning a cup at this point.
Indeed and historically on here the League Cup doesn't count as a proper trophy - at least it didn't used to....
I'm not saying you'll continue to concede too many goals because Klopp will stand still and not try and fix it. I'm suggesting he won't be able to sort it. You've not been good enough defensively for years.
Why not? He's improving players, has done throughout his career
Well if it's that simple why didn't he last year? Or the year before?
It's not easy to do so. He seems better suited going forward.
Breaking down teams that park the bus still Liverpool's achilles heel?
Such a tool.
It sounds like Klopp still doesn't realise this is the best way to combat his side...
I wonder if he'll ever understand that there are more than "hey, we can attack, but what the feck is defending, bring me Klavan!"- ways to play football.
So, nothing new. Klopp lost another final.
Getting in via a cup final win like United would have been better for Liverpool.
Silverwear, Klopp winning a final and CL.
Best of all.
Hardly a fair comment given it was our second game in 24 hours and we started with a weakened side with some players coming back from injury.
It's pre-season so no real reason to celebrate if we had won and no reason to be negative having lost on penalties.
What we do know is Ward is too good to be our 3rd choice keeper and Klavan is nowhere near good enough as a back up central defender.
I have to say I'm slightly worried by Liverpool. They have glaring weaknesses but their attack (which was already good) looks very good and in theory should be able to outscore most teams. Both Salah and Robertson are very good signings and damn cheap ones given some of the prices this window. In fact, I wouldn't have minded Robertson coming to United. 8m for him is a steal. If they get a bit of luck they could be right up there.
He did. Look at the goals conceded in the last third of the season.
You don't solve all of the issues in one go. It's like complaining that Jose didn't sort the goal threat out. He's building.
Did you watch it? It was tumescent. Liverpool were hardly the proponents of beautiful football. It was disjointed all round.
Hardly emphasises your point. In fact, based on that match nothing can be concluded on anything whatsoever.
Obviously would have liked that. Although actually finishing in the top 4 speaks of significant progress in terms of rubbing shoulders with sides that have been well above Liverpool in recent years. It represents improvement, which is important.
That just tells us klopp is a bit of a snob, a la wenger, who likes to take the moral high ground.
His formula obviously works really well against big teams, finals notwithstanding. And IMO our approach in the latter stages of last season showed that we do in fact have a boring plan B to fall back on.
Or plan C as it may be. I reckon he agrees with guardiola in that "Plan B is to make Plan A work."
His formula doesn't work in must win games, which is why he's so shit in finals and struggles against sides which surprise him with a foreign brand of football. And that's why he struggled for consistency moreso in England, and continued his poor record in cup finals on top of it.
Your final sentence is exactly why I said Klopp is not a pragmatic manager. Nor is Pep.
I suggest you look at his record against other top sides. Like unbeaten against the other Top 7 last season with plenty of wins. So you clearly need to revise your 'formula doesn't work in must win games' opinion. As for not winning in cup finals - I don't think any of his teams have ever started as favourites to win in the final, even against Sevilla we were the close outsiders for most sensible observers. So therefore it's not surprising his teams would lose is it. Maybe he could have hoped for a surprise win under the law of averages but you can't berate a man for losing to superior teams, on paper.
Must win games aren't just the ones that involve the top 7. Most the teams in the top 7 play on the front foot, which is why it bodes well for him. He's not pragmatic enough to adjust and adapt to smaller sides who set up differently, in games that are equally as important in the circumstance. 3 points is 3 points.
You missed the German cup final against Wolfsburg in 2015 btw. And yeah he was underdog against Bayern but to lose all 3, and to Sevilla, and to Wolfsburg points to something. Especially when you consider his dickish philosophy of the way football should be played.
Klopp is a purist and he won't deter from that. How you still have a problem with me saying he's not pragmatic as a result is beyond me.
Surely you people get bored of this.
Ah missed Wolfsberg. I don't think it points to anything TBH, especially in matches when not expected to win, though those on Caf like to think it does and of course it's a perpetual source of amusement so is trotted out often, which is how urban myths are born and people then believe their own spiel.
Every manager has a belief in the way football should be played, Klopp certainly isn't alone in that, look at Mourinho, Pep, Poch, Wenger etc., they rarely stray from their tactical set up unless there is a very good reason for it (Wenger going to 3 at the back for example). However much you want to believe Klopp will not alter his basic approach .. you are wrong. You seem to dismiss out of hand anything that doesn't suit your rhetoric.
Here are two massive examples that destroy that theory a) Liverpool usually (unless the opposition adopts the same tactics) change from their normal passing game to a more defensive line-up allowing them to play on the break, against most top teams, this is quite contrary to their normal possession based tactics. They have been spectacularly successful not just last season but in fact since he arrived at the club. b) After the City game in March last season Liverpool played their remaining 9 PL games, thru May, with far more conservative tactics against the nine teams below them than pre-new year, primarily due to injuries to key players (e.g. Mane out) but also because winning points in any fashion was more important than footballing dogma. The result was 6 wins, 2 draws and 1 defeat, enabling the club to finish 4th. Gone however was the beautiful swashbuckling attacking football employed thru December.
These facts and the style of play Klopp reverted to, are incontrovertible, despite them being contrary to your stubborn insistence on the accuracy of your perception of Klopp's supposed lack of pragmatism.