And who found and developed them ? Formed them into a team and played the right tactics to suit them ? Exactly.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
Is right. I did love the football we played though, both in 13/14 and first half of last season. And, not having a dig, it's nice to have managers who are willing to go down that road.
Defence still needs sorting IMO.
Don't rate any of the back 5 bar Matip
Don't rate any of the back 5 bar Matip
Think they might challenge for the title but miss out in a close race, to Spurs. Already demonstrated they can play effective attacking football. Defence needs more focus and work on the training ground.
Less convinced about CL. Perhaps a season in which things go right in the PL but wrong in other competitions. Hard to see them competing in several competitions at the same time.
None of the big sides look well equipped to compete on all fronts. Those who do well in CL may find they drop 3 or 4 careless points and end up 4th rather than 2nd.
Less convinced about CL. Perhaps a season in which things go right in the PL but wrong in other competitions. Hard to see them competing in several competitions at the same time.
None of the big sides look well equipped to compete on all fronts. Those who do well in CL may find they drop 3 or 4 careless points and end up 4th rather than 2nd.
Honestly, I think Mignolet proved his worth a bit in the second half of the season. Was overall very solid, and while I'd like a better GK, I think there's other positions in our defensive unit that need sorted first. Finding Matip an ideal CB partner is obviously the big one, but I wouldn't mind an upgrade on Clyne, either - Someone a bit more offensively minded, but who can still defend. I've always said, put Clyne & Johnson into a blender, and we might have a decent damn RB
Other than that, another body in MF & I think we're good for the upcoming season (so basically, FSG, sign Keita & VVD
). Not predicting a title run, but I hope we can be competitive in all the cup competitions we enter.That's a bold prediction. I honestly struggle to see Spurs making top 4 next season (as Liverpool might also), but that's a subject for another thread.
That's as much an organisational issue as it is a personnel one.
I'd love to see us sign Van Dijk but there are concerns about the number of set piece goals we conceded last season, and the fact that they were all pretty much identical.
Its both. Of your Klopp prefered defence, only Matip and Klavan can defend. Lovren left his talents at Spurs and Gomez is utterly untested. When you factor in Klopp's weakness in organizing defending at times it really doesn't help. especially since in center midfield you have our previous problem in the form of one natural 6 in Can. If you could get in another 6, and a superior partner to Mario who is consistent in the air (Sakho would have been), that would die out quickly.
have to admit, watched the game last night with my bro on stream..
Liverpool is looking good, their counter pressing is terrifying.
that front 3 of Firmino-Salah-Mane are full of explosion and flair.
They attack with purpose and Bayern was gasping for air.
compared to us, they are much in sync.
I fully expect them to start the season with a bang.
Liverpool is looking good, their counter pressing is terrifying.
that front 3 of Firmino-Salah-Mane are full of explosion and flair.
They attack with purpose and Bayern was gasping for air.
compared to us, they are much in sync.
I fully expect them to start the season with a bang.
He had a fantastic side, and another poster said, deserves great credit in building given his knack of finding good talent. But he won a two horse league when Bayern were in a rebuild, which is much different to the Premier League where you have more even spread of quality and sider variety of football styles across the 20 teams.
He also almost drove Dortmund to relegation zone by Xmas shortly after and whilst you mention finals, it's a good point to mention his terrible record on them, which is in no small part due to his lack of pragmatism in approaching difficult games.
Unless he finds another Reus, Gundagon, Lewa, Hummels etc. in a golden generation he's not going to be able to gloss over the tactical shortcomings. There is no plan B in Liverpool, it's a major flaw for you guys . There wasn't one for LVG either, who was more decorated and ultimately found out when he came to us and England.
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You ain't deluded enough to be a Liverpool fanHonestly, I think Mignolet proved his worth a bit in the second half of the season. Was overall very solid, and while I'd like a better GK, I think there's other positions in our defensive unit that need sorted first. Finding Matip an ideal CB partner is obviously the big one, but I wouldn't mind an upgrade on Clyne, either - Someone a bit more offensively minded, but who can still defend. I've always said, put Clyne & Johnson into a blender, and we might have a decent damn RB
Other than that, another body in MF & I think we're good for the upcoming season (so basically, FSG, sign Keita & VVD
That's a bold prediction. I honestly struggle to see Spurs making top 4 next season (as Liverpool might also), but that's a subject for another thread.
Keep digging, though I'm sure you can find even more disingenuous excuses if you put your mind to it. The German lads on here have already disproved your theories too many times to count. Search the threads when Klopp arrived and bias forced United fans to hold him in disregard.
Hats off, you've done marvellously there at proving he has (in your words) no discipline or tactical astuteness. In no way is that an exaggeration. You've even pulled out the "Bayern were on a rebuild" - always love that contrivance.
I'm convinced.
Bayern were rebuilding so much, they were having to contend with losing CL finals instead of winning them at the time, despite being favourites.
I don't understand this plan B BS. What does it even mean? If a team decides to park the bus are we supposed to just start furiously playing long balls and putting crosses in? We do have a different approach in the games against the top six and you can see that. The problem is the 14 other teams mostly park the bus and unlike Spurs we don't have brilliant full backs attacking wise so it all becomes a bit congested. I could say Mourinho doesn't have a plan B, he used to always take three points in the big games but these days his counter attacking isn't as efficient in the big games. Should he start playing tiki taka in the big games? Klopp's gameplan and tactics do work in the majority of the games but the issue is when we lose our pacey players and injuries mount up.
We went to plan B at the end of the season, where we played a much more contained style to avoid conceding and grind out points.
Should have focused on shutting up shop earlier to be honest, when the goals were drying up anyway.
I know it was a bad patch and we can't really use it as evidence for my point here but we only scored 6 goals in January and Feb. That's in all competions as well, what I'm saying is don't you think shutting up shop would have gone against us even more at the time?
What do the Liverpool fans on here think of Ryan Kent. I really like him, good cameo again last night.
Hope he doesn't go on loan as I think he could be a decent back up to Mane and Salah.
He is obviously young and a bit raw, but doesn't seem to lack confidence.
Suppose like Grujic though he needs game time, question is whether both will get it.
Hope he doesn't go on loan as I think he could be a decent back up to Mane and Salah.
He is obviously young and a bit raw, but doesn't seem to lack confidence.
Suppose like Grujic though he needs game time, question is whether both will get it.
By my count, we scored 8 and conceded 12.
The shocking part is how many we conceded from a winning position. That's exactly where we need to be better at focusing on shutting up shop.
We were 3-1 up against Bournemouth with 15 minutes to go, ffs.
I remember sometime last year where klopp talked about the differences in the premier league to the bundesliga and how getting the first goal was much harder in england, but once you go 2 up, matches get easier to control. I think we spent too long unlearned that lesson last season.
Bayern were still building under Heynckes, rebuild is probably a silly term looking back given they were a force.
Still though, if you want to point to a single season where Klopp won the league back in a 2 horse race in 2012 to overwrite his frailties since then be my guest. I don't need Germans to tell me the league has 2 contenders in it, I don't need Germans to tell me he scraped 4th with no European distractions and being a year ahead in the development to his peers. I don't need Germans to tell me where he drove Dortmund back to in his final season.
You don't need to be convinced, you just need to look back at what he's done since 2012, which is nothing other than choke in big games and fall out of title races when there's more than one other team involved.
As above.
I have low expectations of youngsters these days. If they don't have a clear wow factor, I don't expect them to make it. If Ibe couldn't, I'd be shocked if the likes of Kent or Woodburn do.
I think TAA has what it takes though.
Kent has what Ibe didn't. Oodles of confidence, witnessed by his superb embarrassment of Rafinha yesterday. And that's par for the course for him, he's a really talented and speedy winger. Other youngsters have been left out of this 30 man Audi squad to make loan arrangements but for me it's telling that AA, Kent and Woodburn (plus Ejaria and Grujic too if you want to add them to this category - personally I wouldn't) are all in the squad and all getting minutes (yes, I know that happened last pre-season too for some of them).
As far as Kent is concerned I am pretty sure Klopp is going to keep him around as a backup to Salah & Mane and so he can keep a similar formation when resting one of those two. Moreno could also be kept as a left winger if we were desperate ! I'm beginning to think that Klopp sees Woodburn more as a Coutinho type midfielder - witness where he played him yesterday, woodburn's size (though he is only 17) and that superb pass to put Sturridge away for goal 3 yesterday.
I really don't think there is any shame finishing 2nd to that bayern side. especially considering they kept stealing their best players.
As for "scraping 4", surely klopp has done much better than you expected a year ago?
Kent I agree has that arrogance Ibe never had, I really have high hopes for him.
It's getting him, Grujic, Woodburn and Ejaria the game time that might be Klopp's issue.
I agree with @B20 though on Trent, I don't think there will be any issues at all getting this lad in the team.
I'd be surprised. He's currently got to find gametime for Wijnaldum, Lallana, Sturridge, Origi and Solanke - All of whom are looking like they might not be 1st choice. Any one of them would be chosen for the wing ahead of Kent.
I suspect Woodburn will have a better career than Ibe. Possibly at Liverpool
I think that's more likely for Alexander-Arnold than Woodburn personally. I expect TAA to replace Clyne as first choice RB this season.
Woodburn has more to compete with in his positions as well which doesn't help his chances.
Possibly. As you say, full back is probably an easier 'in' that creative midfielder.
Oh agree. For me AA is already ahead of Clyne. Maybe, and that really is a maybe, I'd take Clyne if we were expecting to be up against a top attacking side or with someone like Hazard for example, though AA handled Ribery brilliantly yesterday.
And he's only 17
Lemme guess they are cook a hoop after beating Bayern? SIX TIMES LA
What was the difference in talent between them and the teams that weren't called Bayern Munich? Its a good enough achievement but it's the similar brand of football across the board in Bundasliga. Premier league, whilst questionable in quality has many different brands of football adapted by their managers and this is where certain coaches get found out in their lack of willingness to adapt or have a plan B.
To answer your final sentence, yeah they finished 4th and not 6th. 1 point above arsenal and comfortably above us who publicly threw the league for the closing month at least. Given people were praising Klopp as a title contender, I was closer with my predictions than theirs.
Bus parade for all the cups they have won in this summer?Guys please stop worrying about Liverpool and someone tell me if this is really happening right now!!
Who was praising us as titler contenders? Bookies generally placed us 5th or 6th likeliest with a fair drop compared to the top 4 candidates. United was 2nd likeliest almost across the board.
We finished 1 point above an arsenal team who had the highest points total of any 5th placed side ever. It's not as if it was handed to us.
I don't think you've much leg to stand on arguing yourself out of this one. The bias is obvious.
I'm not trying to be bias. Arsenal had other cups to concentrate on in FA and Champions League. Liverpool were out in early stages of whatever competition they were involved in, with no European commitments.
All I've said is Jurgen Klopp is no way tactical or pragmatic enough to contend for the league. He was a year ahead in his project compared to Conte, Pep and Mourinho and had the head start of no European distractions whatsoever. He skimmed 4th by 1 point. He bombed at Dortmund towards the end and had a couple seasons where we thought he'd be a terrific future manager, but he's since shown nothing to warrant it.
As for your biased accusations comments, I'm honestly not trying to be biased. My father supports Liverpool which makes me find it awkward to wish badly on them. And I actually thought Brendan was great for you guys, which is something no United fan on the caf would admit without being bitter about.
And as for title talk:
http://www.skysports.com/football/news/11669/10602805/liverpool-are-premier-league-title-contenders
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04mndrs
Are Liverpool genuine title contenders? - http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/37468237
Pre-season means zero. Literally zero. I am 100% sure they won't compete for the title.
I'm a fan of Sadio Mane by the way. Excellent player tbh.
I'm waiting once Liverpool start playing more than one match a week, & Kloppy having a meltdown how his players are flogged to death.
No way they will be competing for the league now they are playing in Europe & not just domestically, even if there squad was good enough.
No way they will be competing for the league now they are playing in Europe & not just domestically, even if there squad was good enough.
I think this is a big season for Klopp, & his reputation. All things considered we probably did as well as could be expected in the league last season. Our cup performances left a lot to be desired & that needs to be rectified. One trophy in 11 years is nowhere near good enough for a club like Liverpool. I'm certainly not getting carried away by our pre-season form because Watford will certainly prove much sterner opposition than Bayern did last night. & I most certainly won't be getting carried away should we hit a bit of good form early on in the season, especially when you consider that we eventually went from title challengers to top 4 hopefuls in the space of a couple of months last time around.
Our manager has a lot of positive qualities which were quite clearly evident during his time at Dortmund. However, he needs to prove himself all over again here in England. Not just in fits & starts but over the course of a full season. Like I've said before, his record in Germany got him the job at Anfield. But it's his record at Liverpool that will determine whether or not his reputation is enhanced & justified or becomes seriously diluted. So whilst you make some valid points, I believe we'll get a better picture of Klopp's suitability sometime next May.
They do have one of those. The problem is he gets injured getting out of bed
And yes, they do need one of those. Most PL teams will park the bus and look to break them on the counter. And there are three reliable ways to break counters: individual quality(liverpool don't have enough of this), set pieces, and a killer of a forward who can convert half-chances or turn normal chances into goals