I haven't denied tapping up, have I?
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
Complaining?
Are you saying that...next year is their year?
I can't seem them challenging for the title unless they do get in some good quality signings.
Their goalkeepers are always good for a laugh and Klopp still doesn't convince me from the defensive side of the game.
I think they'll be better than last season mind you but won't have enough to win the league.
Indeed you haven't, but you seem to be pushing a line of 'this stuff goes in all the time, so why make a fuss this time'. Which doesn't wash, because what Liverpool have done here seems to be completely different to what goes on all the time.
Apologies if I'm misreading what you're trying to say though, there's a lot of guff on this thread that I classify as 'generic Liverpool fan' as opposed to attributed to one in particular.
I'm suggesting it goes on all the time, which is well documented. Liverpool got caught doing something that's rife. Make a fuss but it'll open a huge can of worms for the industry. Here's a Guardian article from last month which supports my position. https://www.theguardian.com/footbal...-chairman-peter-coates?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other
From the Guardian
What happened with Van Dijk has gone on for decades in one way or another and to such an extent that senior figures who have worked on the other side of the fence, trying to enforce regulation and deal with disputes, say it would be a conservative estimate to predict that 90% of transfers involve an element of tapping up.
What happened with Van Dijk has gone on for decades in one way or another and to such an extent that senior figures who have worked on the other side of the fence, trying to enforce regulation and deal with disputes, say it would be a conservative estimate to predict that 90% of transfers involve an element of tapping up.
Their midfield is just not very good. Neither in terms of quality nor in terms of balance. With Henderson, can, lallana and wijnaldum they have good workrate/hustle but none of these players can actually control the flow of the game or shield the defence. At times they blow hot and look great but over the course of the season, they just lack quality. They depend a lot on coutinho to orchestrate the attack but he is somewhat inconsistent himself.
Thats imo part of the reason why they lost so many points against minors.
Which is precisely why no one is suggesting the book be thrown at Liverpool for what they have done. But the fact remains a club has evidence that Liverpool tapped-up their player, because of the brazen manner in which Klopp has allegedly acted. Evidently, some punishment has to follow, and Liverpool publicly apologising and ending their pursuit of the player seemed fair enough. Your stance is funny, because I can guarantee if Guardiola met with Coutinho and Liverpool had the same evidence Southampton had and made a complaint, you and all the other Liverpool fans on here would be fuming if the Premier League did nothing as City continued to pursue Coutinho.
Yes it is rife, and yes it probably does happen in 90% of transfers, but the FA can't do anything without proof of it happening.
So in the majority of transfers, it's the agents talking to clubs rather than players, which makes it very hard to prove anything is happening at all. An agent is hardly going to do himself out of a job by talking about it.
In VVD's case, and I say the following without obviously knowing any details, but it appears that there is proof of Klopp talking to VVD, text messages and so on.
So the FA have to act if the complaint is made and there is proof. You have to see the difference?
What you seem to be arguing I akin to saying the DPP shouldn't pursue any murder charges ever because other murders are unsolved.
My stance is simply highlighting a common practice. I'm not suggesting Liverpool shouldn't be punished. Let the lawsuit begin... I'm just suggesting that it's in nobody's interest that Liverpool are punished.
Coutinho to join Barcelona: deal (almost) done
it's hard not to see Van Dijk at Liverpool next season regardless of what's gone on......
the player wants the move, he seems to be unsettled and I don't see a lot of competition from other clubs
Southampton are probably looking for a replacement and he'll probably move late in August for 65/70 million so Saints can save face when they invite a bid from Liverpool for the unsettled player
the player wants the move, he seems to be unsettled and I don't see a lot of competition from other clubs
Southampton are probably looking for a replacement and he'll probably move late in August for 65/70 million so Saints can save face when they invite a bid from Liverpool for the unsettled player
I think you're being naive to suggest that the VVD case is different. The suggestion that it's distinct because there's 'proof' is probably not true. I imagine there's proof about tapping up that is exactly the same as what Klopp did - pretty common behaviour I would suggest. The fact that it's very rarely pursued is indicative of the mutual destruction that would take place. Nobody wants to regulate this practice as it's counterproductive to all the vested interests involved.
Look, punish Liverpool - go ahead. But be prepared for the fallout.
err all kind of obvious that .... and little to do with what we were discussing. Try getting a handle on the discussion before jumping in next time.
Presumably there is nothing stopping southampton from crying foul again now - They seem more interested in dealing though.
Haha that's pretty simple .... most of those wanting to see us locked up and the key thrown away are United fans !
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Isnt this case a litlle different just because you raid Southampton every year?
They're probably sick of it and thought this was a step too far.
It's understandable.
They're probably sick of it and thought this was a step too far.
It's understandable.
Of course clubs 'tap up' other players but the difference is they have the good sense not to leave a clear evidence trail. Look at the way Utd use 'Agent Pogba' to tap up the likes of Griezmann and Lukaku. Even though it is brazen and everyone knows it's going on it's really hard for the authorities to pin anything on Ed Woodward, Jose or the club.
You can look at many similar stories over the years where players talk about how Utd stars tap them up on International duty. The difference is the club and the manager have to seen to be upholding the rules
I guess this must be why we had far and away the best record against the other Top 7 sides and were unbeaten ?
If you're going to critique the midfield at least make an attempt that is backed up by facts / stats. What you have done is taken the standard default United fan opinion of 'anything Liverpool must be crap' regardless of stats to the contrary.
The reason we dropped so many points to sides we shouldn't have is, as Klopp said, "a failure to defend as a team" (and disruption caused by an extensive injury list). Although it should also be accepted that the very nature of our football means we will always concede more than say Chelsea or United, currently more defensive teams by nature. We need to cut that by 10 goals this season.
I imagine that does indeed come into it. Understandable.
I agree actually and I'd love to know what actually transpired and why there was a need to meet. I'd love to know the agents part in all of this too. Guess we'll have to wait for Klopp's book in about 10 years time.
You're implying they examined "all the evidence" and decided not to punish you, as if there was insufficient evidence, which there was not. It's obvious that the apology was made on the condition that Southampton not pursue legal action with the PL, most likely by withholding the evidence of Klopps meetings and texts with VVD.
How is that hard to understand?
Edit: accidentally quoted myself!
The Coutinho rumours are still swirling around 
.
.Now you're arguing with yourself
You're right, and it's a bit hypocritical of me to only call out Liverpool when every club does it, I agree that it goes on all the time, it's a bit of a joke how it's very rarely punished.
How does Liverpool's record v the top seven prove or disprove that your midfield is 'not very good'? That's like a Chelsea fan dismissing any criticism of his/her team by responding 'we came first, so no'. Liverpool have other strengths and other teams have their own weaknesses, so I'm not sure what precisely you can deduce about the quality of Liverpool's midfield solely from their record versus the top seven.
It's in nobodies interest for it to be punished too harshly.
I'd bet around 95% of players at PL clubs are purchases.
Next year is yours. Believe.
Possession and territorial stats indicate Liverpool's midfield isn't as week as the initial post suggests. Furthermore, the fan thing to do is to be preoccupied by individual flair and talent which ignores the tactical approach. Genuinely, it's quite rare to read about the value of coaching to a system and the dividend that delivers on the pitch.
They won't go away mate, it's like De Gea for us. Gets so tedious after a while.The Coutinho rumours are still swirling around
Might be, who knows?Next year is yours. Believe.
I wonder if it'll be United's first league win in 51 years without SAF as manager. #bantz
I wonder who they could get if Coutinho does force a move to Barca. Lemar would be excellent but wouldn't be for sale this late in the window. Bernardo Silva probably would've been the best replacement that moved this summer but he had better offers.
Either way I don't think Pool will agree to sell him this late on. It would be madness.
Either way I don't think Pool will agree to sell him this late on. It would be madness.
Would Sakho be a key player for Liverpool next season?
Lucas Moura would be a good option. Lemar won't move this summer.
Of course not, but the odd outlier aside, the caf is pretty darn pessimistic. There are a couple of good Liverpool posters here like @Tommy or @RobinLFC, but on average you guys are just remarkably deluded. It's like talking to members of a obscure religious cult.Might be, who knows?
I wonder if it'll be United's first league win in 51 years without SAF as manager. #bantz
If Madrid hadn't messed you about with Morata, and they were desperate for DDG in return i'm sure United would have got around £50 million at least which would have been more than fair for a keeper (even though he is the best in the world). Barca on the other hand are taking the piss with that £80 million offer because we only offered about £14 million less for Keita who isn't as established as Coutinho. Sick of the transfer season already actually, I just remembered we actually rejected real life cash money for Moreno in the sum of £11 million which is just..
Deluded is possibly my pet hate term for fans. Twitter is full of football folks telling each other how deluded they are when, in truth, they just disagree.
I actually think one should be relentlessly positive about one's football team. Talk up your side, talk up your chances. Positivity is infectious and improves performance. By contrast, take Hodgson at Liverpool and Moyes at United. Both men wilfully set out to manage expectations as that was the safest bet. They talked about talented footballers as if they were average and spoke about rivals in glowing terms. The result was that their expectations were met by all around them. It was a showcase of miserable negativity taking hold.
Fans shouldn't follow that philosophy. Be positive and don't accept others talking you down. Not deluded, just being a fanatic...which is what we all are, aren't we?
How hard is it to understand that isn't what I said or implied ?!
Pretty damn simple question to answer so not sure why you asked it. He said Their midfield is just not very good. Neither in terms of quality nor in terms of balance. Over 12 games against the other Top 7 sides we performed better than any of those other 6 sides, is that even possible if our midfield is not very good, Neither in terms of quality nor in terms of balance ? Of course it isn't, not only would we not have outplayed some of them but we most certainly would have lost. So it's clearly bias-driven bollocks to claim that. Any team can get away with an underserved result in a couple of games .. but you can't reproduce that over 12 games with a midfield as poor as he is suggesting.
There is literally no way you can argue that a team's record against the other top teams says anything about the quality of their midfield, other than it's unlikely to be especially bad. Using your logic, I cannot say Liverpool's defence, midfield or attack is 'not very good' because your top seven record obviously precludes that as a possibility. Or does the record only bear relevance to the midfield? You can see why your statement doesn't really hold weight. I think this probably boils down to you interpreting 'not very good' to mean 'utter dogshit', when it reality he is just saying it's not great. Which I'd agree with. Liverpool have a good midfield. Is it very good? Probably not.