Liverpool - 2017/18

christinaa said:
I haven't seen lots of optimism throughout the season from Liverpool fans especially after a 'slip-up' or two.

They were very critical and many were baying for heads to fall - so the CL might be a saviour for the club, manager and players.

United have had 26 great years under SAF and we're still getting the right formula for success under Jose and therefore we can wait patiently until that time comes.

Thirteen (13) Premier Leagues and much more keep us happy for now seeing that there are many, many Liverpool fans who NEVER EVER saw their team win the Premier League.
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You’re so far off here. I can’t think of a single point this season where Liverpool fans have been collectively lacking in optimism, or calling for Klopp’s head.

If we lose on Saturday I can guarantee that no one will be demanding that Klopp is sacked either.

This isn’t about opinions, you’re simply wrong here.

I find it incredible that you’re talking about United fans waiting patiently when half of this forum seems to want Mourinho sacked as well.
 
montpelier said:
Oh jolly good, what excellent news to round the weekend off with, :D :D.
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:lol: They won’t do that against us. Ramos was talking about the final today and I think they might try and play a counter attacking game themselves.
 
No chance Real play a high line. I expect Liverpool to be a tad cautious as well.
 
haram said:
No chance Real play a high line. I expect Liverpool to be a tad cautious as well.
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Klopp has said that we will play our normal game and he doesn't usually play mind games. But you might still be right. Everyone is expecting this wide open free-scoring goal fest, which sometimes just doesn't materialise when the stakes are so high.
 
haram said:
No chance Real play a high line. I expect Liverpool to be a tad cautious as well.
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How are we not going to play a high line if we keep possession? We aren't going to hoof it up everytime the ball is in our defensive 3rd out of fear of liverpool's press
 
Think the debate about swapping seasons is pretty much sealed up now. I pity anyone who wouldn't swap because the FA cup final is easier, guess Chelsea isn't exactly cannon fodder just yet.

I think we will be able to shock Madrid as they are not used to anyone having a go at them, most teams sit back and hope for the best. One the other hand we have proved we can mix it up with sides that play football, and I'd be very surprised if Madrid approached the final cautiously. I think they are too arrogant to do that, which would play perfectly into our hands. On the other hand, Ronaldo :nervous:. I think if it will go well for us, it will be a 2-3 goal barrage inside 20-30 mins and another later on a counterattack. Anything less and RM will win.

Think its shaping up to be a great game and hopefully less one-sided than the last few finals.
 
giorno said:
How are we not going to play a high line if we keep possession? We aren't going to hoof it up everytime the ball is in our defensive 3rd out of fear of liverpool's press
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I meant deploy a high press with a high line, or similar to Roma.
 
haram said:
I meant deploy a high press with a high line, or similar to Roma.
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Every team is susceptible to turnovers and counter attacks. That's what counter pressing is all about. That's why our style has been so effective in the CL - we compress teams in the middle of the pitch, force turnovers and then advance with speed and in numbers. The approach suits our midfielders like Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner down to a tee (their strengths are their athleticism and transitional play) as well as our forwards, whom thrive on space. City - the best possession side around this season, couldn't cope with this. Even if Madrid don't start with an intentionally high defensive line, they as a side will naturally advance further up the pitch when attacking, thus rendering them vulnerable. Unless...

So far, the only effective way to negate this threat has been if you literally sit deep within your own half and play route one football. Then there is no space to attack in behind and we are forced to have the majority of the ball and be more inventive in possession, which our current midfield absolutely struggles with. It has worked for various smaller sides in the league, but I can only think of Athletico Madrid and Man Utd as being teams who would deploy this tactic in the CL. I don't think Zidane will, and so I think we have a great chance of winning this one.
 
giorno said:
How are we not going to play a high line if we keep possession? We aren't going to hoof it up everytime the ball is in our defensive 3rd out of fear of liverpool's press
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Exactly, Madrid are stacked with players who are comfortable with the ball in tight spaces. You guys won't panic from the pressing in my opinion. Not to mention the experience you guys have in playing in the UCL final. I think we'll try and press your midfield more so than your back line.
 
Can23 said:
Exactly, Madrid are stacked with players who are comfortable with the ball in tight spaces. You guys won't panic from the pressing in my opinion. Not to mention the experience you guys have in playing in the UCL final. I think we'll try and press your midfield more so than your back line.
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We usually press the midfield more than the defence in my opinion. I think we try and win the ball back from the deepest midfielder then break at the back four.
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
Every team is susceptible to turnovers and counter attacks. That's what counter pressing is all about. That's why our style has been so effective in the CL - we compress teams in the middle of the pitch, force turnovers and then advance with speed and in numbers. The approach suits our midfielders like Wijnaldum, Henderson and Milner down to a tee (their strengths are their athleticism and transitional play) as well as our forwards, whom thrive on space. City - the best possession side around this season, couldn't cope with this. Even if Madrid don't start with an intentionally high defensive line, they as a side will naturally advance further up the pitch when attacking, thus rendering them vulnerable. Unless...

So far, the only effective way to negate this threat has been if you literally sit deep within your own half and play route one football. Then there is no space to attack in behind and we are forced to have the majority of the ball and be more inventive in possession, which our current midfield absolutely struggles with. It has worked for various smaller sides in the league, but I can only think of Athletico Madrid and Man Utd as being teams who would deploy this tactic in the CL. I don't think Zidane will, and so I think we have a great chance of winning this one.
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Im aware of this, I just dont think they will leave the same spaces as Roma did. They will also keep the ball better in buildup.
 
It still baffles me why people expect Madrid to play like a Mourinho side. They have enough quality to beat us playing their own game.
 
Catching teams too high when the turnover occurs isn't it?

Against this, having the back-line stood on halfway is an especially bad idea. 10 -15 yards behind halfway is not quite so much of a problem, the team conceding possession is much less exposed to that ''pass finds man in loads of open space'' type break. Roma & City both conceded almost identical to this on the near side, it looks horribly naive when a top team is getting caught in that way.

And don't be moving your defensive line forward when the opposition is in good possession should be the guiding factor for anything the defence does. Because that's a disaster waiting to happen too.

Most good teams will try & get out of their own defensive 1/3 though, in order to have some play of their own at some stage.
 
Klopper76 said:
You’re so far off here. I can’t think of a single point this season where Liverpool fans have been collectively lacking in optimism, or calling for Klopp’s head.

If we lose on Saturday I can guarantee that no one will be demanding that Klopp is sacked either.

This isn’t about opinions, you’re simply wrong here.

I find it incredible that you’re talking about United fans waiting patiently when half of this forum seems to want Mourinho sacked as well.
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I find it incredible that you talk about Liverpool fans like being happy people.

It seems you spend more time here then on your team's forum and are therefore unaware of what is being said there.

I still respect your opinion but disagree with your views.
 
Halds said:
I believe it when you say, that Manchester United still has the right formula, and that the fans are happy and patient. Good for you. This place must be filled with threads worshipping your team and manager.

I didn't say a word about your team though, so why did you bring that up in this thread??
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Thank you for believing that United still has the right formula and the fans are happy and patient and i also agree with you that we have many threads/posts worshipping our team and manager.

There are also a number of posts of fans who are not happy with the present situation, although last year we won three trophies too, so not bad overall.

When a team is the most successful team in England you can expect this as we have been brought up on the SAF formula of toppling the team/fans that bragged lots that they had 18 league titles and we had 7, and it's really hard for that team/fans to stomach that we reached and surpassed them without them having even won one (1) Premier League.

I wait patiently for better times to come along.
 
I'm guessing, after the FA Cup final, the rotting cherry on the stale cake will be this lot beating Real...
 
christinaa said:
I find it incredible that you talk about Liverpool fans like being happy people.

It seems you spend more time here then on your team's forum and are therefore unaware of what is being said there.

I still respect your opinion but disagree with your views.
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If you are finding fights with Klopper on here, you are almost 100% certain to be in the wrong.
 
haram said:
No one expects Real to play like that.
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Literally half the posts I've read is high line is suicide or I hope he gave Mourinho and Ashley young a ring to see how to shut down Salah. That's been the main rhetoric for the past month.

One of the reasons Jamie Vardy has such a good record against the big teams is because his pace is lethal vs our high lines. That doesn't mean we're suddenly going to drop deep in our own box to negate that, because more often than not regardless of him nabbing 1 we'll still win. As has been alluded to many times there are very few sides in the back end of the CL who will play like that. Top sides just don't, they have faith in their own ability and quality.
 
Liver_bird said:
Literally half the posts I've read is high line is suicide or I hope he gave Mourinho and Ashley young a ring to see how to shut down Salah. That's been the main rhetoric for the past month.

One of the reasons Jamie Vardy has such a good record against the big teams is because his pace is lethal vs our high lines. That doesn't mean we're suddenly going to drop deep in our own box to negate that, because more often than not regardless of him nabbing 1 we'll still win. As has been alluded to many times there are very few sides in the back end of the CL who will play like that. Top sides just don't, they have faith in their own ability and quality.
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Have you not seen Atletico Madrid in the CL in the last few years?
 
Can23 said:
Exactly, Madrid are stacked with players who are comfortable with the ball in tight spaces. You guys won't panic from the pressing in my opinion. Not to mention the experience you guys have in playing in the UCL final. I think we'll try and press your midfield more so than your back line.
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Im not so sure, RM looked really uncomfortable under that fast high press when they went up against Spurs in the group stages. The experience and nerves count for a lot, if Liverpool are jittery and let in a goal in the opening 20minutes from an error due to nerves it will be a long way back into the game against a RRM with their tails up.
 
montpelier said:
Catching teams too high when the turnover occurs isn't it?

Against this, having the back-line stood on halfway is an especially bad idea. 10 -15 yards behind halfway is not quite so much of a problem, the team conceding possession is much less exposed to that ''pass finds man in loads of open space'' type break. Roma & City both conceded almost identical to this on the near side, it looks horribly naive when a top team is getting caught in that way.

And don't be moving your defensive line forward when the opposition is in good possession should be the guiding factor for anything the defence does. Because that's a disaster waiting to happen too.

Most good teams will try & get out of their own defensive 1/3 though, in order to have some play of their own at some stage.
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Keeping the backline 10-15 yards behind solves nothing, it just leaves more space between the defence and midfield, which means the team would have to immeditely track back as quickly as possible as soon as the ball is lost instead of trying to keep the pressure on and win the ball back with pressing. And it would still be a bad idea for us against them because they're so much faster than we are. We want to shrink the pitch as much as possible, not enlarge it. We can't win a track meet with them. Athleticism is their one massive advantage over us

Btw, none of liverpool's goals against city were down to the defence playing too high. Roma's problem, on the other hand, was that they had the father of all meltdowns - defence playing high to support pressing, while the attack and midfield forgot to press. And then they proceded to start losing every single duel, lose shape, forget their man, etc. High line wasn't the issue they were just shite
 
giorno said:
Keeping the backline 10-15 yards behind solves nothing, it just leaves more space between the defence and midfield, which means the team would have to immeditely track back as quickly as possible as soon as the ball is lost instead of trying to keep the pressure on and win the ball back with pressing. And it would still be a bad idea for us against them because they're so much faster than we are. We want to shrink the pitch as much as possible, not enlarge it. We can't win a track meet with them. Athleticism is their one massive advantage over us

Btw, none of liverpool's goals against city were down to the defence playing too high. Roma's problem, on the other hand, was that they had the father of all meltdowns - defence playing high to support pressing, while the attack and midfield forgot to press. And then they proceded to start losing every single duel, lose shape, forget their man, etc. High line wasn't the issue they were just shite
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well there are some fine margins involved sometimes but...

if you're stood on halfway like a row of ducks having pushed to there, the opportunity to do even the boldy stuff is taken away - like the Salah 'offside' goal vs. City & it's Roma near-duplicate for instance

but I see your point about Roma & it is about doing it badly or well for much of the time
 
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All this talk... Can't we just play the match now? I'm so bored with no football on :(
 
and when I said

And don't be moving your defensive line forward when the opposition is in good possession
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that is all about applying pressure to the ball / having some press of your own, as Roma singularly failed to do after starting reasonably well, bizarrely

and I was thinking City maybe just refused to compromise in any way, but were so quickly getting totally outscored, it just all went away & was never coming back
 
Scroto Baggins said:
Im not so sure, RM looked really uncomfortable under that fast high press when they went up against Spurs in the group stages. The experience and nerves count for a lot, if Liverpool are jittery and let in a goal in the opening 20minutes from an error due to nerves it will be a long way back into the game against a RRM with their tails up.
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Yeah and look who Madrid have dealt with on the way to the final. The French Champions the Italian champions and the German Champions, my biggest hope is Madrid come in overconfident thinking we will be an easy game.
 
Tommy said:
All this talk... Can't we just play the match now? I'm so bored with no football on :(
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Just want this game over and done with so we can get to the really important part, namely the release of Ronaldo's appropriately titled book:

'The Night I Made the Scousers Cry'

Bestseller in the making.
 
Random Task said:
Just want this game over and done with so we can get to the really important part, namely the release of Ronaldo's appropriately titled book:

'The Night I Made the Scousers Cry'

Bestseller in the making.
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More like...

"How I Kept Christiano Ronaldo In My Pocket" by Dejan Lovren :lol:
 
Random Task said:
I'm all for fiction mate, but this is way over the top.
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Probably :lol: I'm really looking forward to the game. I don't expect us to win, so if we do it's a bonus, and if we don't it's been a fun ride, and the fact we'll be playing more CL footy next year is just :drool:
 
Tommy said:
Probably :lol: I'm really looking forward to the game. I don't expect us to win, so if we do it's a bonus, and if we don't it's been a fun ride, and the fact we'll be playing more CL footy next year is just :drool:
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Correction: playing more CL football with Keita, probably Fekir and possibly Dembele is :drool::drool:
 
Liver_bird said:
Literally half the posts I've read is high line is suicide or I hope he gave Mourinho and Ashley young a ring to see how to shut down Salah. That's been the main rhetoric for the past month.

One of the reasons Jamie Vardy has such a good record against the big teams is because his pace is lethal vs our high lines. That doesn't mean we're suddenly going to drop deep in our own box to negate that, because more often than not regardless of him nabbing 1 we'll still win. As has been alluded to many times there are very few sides in the back end of the CL who will play like that. Top sides just don't, they have faith in their own ability and quality.
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There is a middle ground though, you realise that?
 
KIEV, Ukraine (AP) — Preparing for the pride and angst of watching Liverpool contest the biggest game in club football, John Henry is ready to take stock of the often-fraught, eight-year journey as owner.

The perilous plight of the club he inherited: The early mistakes as the Boston Red Sox ownership group found its feet in soccer: The challenge of restoring the team to the pinnacle of the European game: And the toughest decisions of them all: Reluctantly selling players adored by supporters.

"Maybe it's because I'm an American, but I have a difficult time understanding why anyone would want to leave Liverpool," Henry told The Associated Press in an in-depth discussion of the club carried out by email. "The club is so rich in history and tradition, supported by so many millions around the world, in virtually every country of the world."

That global standing wasn't enough to prevent Barcelona twice in the last four years tempting Liverpool's star forwards, paying around 240 million euros ($280 million) for Luiz Suarez and Philippe Coutinho.

"You don't want to be in the position where players want to go somewhere else, even if it is a great club like Barcelona," Henry said. "It's hard to understand why players would want to go to a league where the competition is so weak. They must play 30 or so meaningless matches per year waiting for Champions League matches."

When the final of the Champions League is played on Saturday it will be Liverpool taking on Real Madrid in Kiev's Olympic Stadium. For Coutinho and Suarez, the Champions League ended in the quarterfinals.

"They'll be watching this weekend and could have been playing," Henry said. "But (part owner) Mike Gordon, (sporting director) Michael Edwards and everyone in our scouting department have done a terrific job in making the best of those two difficult situations."
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https://apnews.com/amp/ac1aea0249b24da8b60a2b793c409d70?__twitter_impression=true

There is really something wrong with Liverpool water. Imagine a player making a choice between playing for Barca alongside Messi, Iniesta, Neymar or playing alongside Henderson, Milner.

Also Suarez won 2 league titles, 4 domestic cups and a Champions league. Coutinho in just 4 months won 2 titles and somehow owner can't think why players want to move to Barca from liverpool.
 
roonster09 said:
https://apnews.com/amp/ac1aea0249b24da8b60a2b793c409d70?__twitter_impression=true

There is really something wrong with Liverpool water. Imagine a player making a choice between playing for Barca alongside Messi, Iniesta, Neymar or playing alongside Henderson, Milner.

Also Suarez won 2 league titles, 4 domestic cups and a Champions league. Coutinho in just 4 months won 2 titles and somehow owner can't think why players want to move to Barca from liverpool.
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John Henry should have waited until after tomorrow night's final before speaking out on players wanting out of Liverpool. We get thrashed by Real & their decision to leave becomes even more justified. If we do manage to pull it off at least then he can say that they're trying to build something special at Anfield & want players who are hungry to become part of it. But as it is, getting to a major final is one thing, however, one trophy in 11 years is just cause for any top player to feel they may need to look elsewhere for success.
 
redman5 said:
John Henry should have waited until after tomorrow night's final before speaking out on players wanting out of Liverpool. We get thrashed by Real & their decision to leave becomes even more justified. If we do manage to pull it off at least then he can say that they're trying to build something special at Anfield & want players who are hungry to become part of it. But as it is, getting to a major final is one thing, however, one trophy in 11 years is just cause for any top player to feel they may need to look elsewhere for success.
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Even if Liverpool win, it doesn't change anything. For many players Barca is a dream and you won't get chance everytime.
 
redman5 said:
John Henry should have waited until after tomorrow night's final before speaking out on players wanting out of Liverpool. We get thrashed by Real & their decision to leave becomes even more justified. If we do manage to pull it off at least then he can say that they're trying to build something special at Anfield & want players who are hungry to become part of it. But as it is, getting to a major final is one thing, however, one trophy in 11 years is just cause for any top player to feel they may need to look elsewhere for success.
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The timing is quite amusing, reminds me of the league winners t shirts on the day of the Chelsea game
 
I think we played well overall. Our back four was solid throughout the night, with both full-backs playing superbly (Robertson is probably my MOTM). Midfield was competitive for large portions of the game, but we didn't look like the same team when Salah went off.

Karius...

Klopp couldn't have done much more. You look at Zidane, he brings on Bale, he changes the game - We don't have those options, and that's what we need in the summer. We need players that can come off the bench & make a difference, or push one of our current players to the bench so they can some on and make the difference.

Still, I'm proud of the team, I hope Salah & Carvajal can both recover for the world cup, and I hope Karius goes back to being a Sons of Anarchy stunt double.

Good season.
 
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