Very rare that Liverpool ever pull anything off at OT. Expect a draw.
Liverpool - 2017/18
- Thread starter Rafateria
- Start date
How very scouse of you to focus on easily manipulated and largely irrelvant stats such as shots on target or possession, as if they somehow award you a minor victory of sorts, when in truth the only stat of any real meaning is that of the final score. Either way, the stats from previous games will have absolutely no bearing on the OT encounter.
DDG is a goal keeper of world class ability and, by definition, his performances will reflect that in each and every game he takes part in. It's not like he would endeavour to raise his game when facing the mighty Liverpool for example.
As to the tactical approach Jose will adopt for this encounter, I think much will depend on where both teams stand in the league table prior to kick off. Jose is the ultimate pragmatist, should he find United in a somewhat comfortable position, ahead by 3 or more points, I think he will set us out in a rather defensive formation with the main focus on counter attacking - at least for the first 45 minutes anyway. One thing is certain though, Jose will be far more daring in throwing players forward when we get the chance to attack, as opposed to the Anfield encounter in which we offered no attacking threat whatsoever.
Liverpool's high press system is never easy to play against, our midfield will need to have their heads on a swivel and their movement needs to timely and clever if we are to get anything from this game. I think if United can keep Liverpool from scoring in the first 70 minutes - by which point the Liverpool players will tire and the game itself become stretched - I fancy us to take control and ultimately win the game.
I think United will win it 1-0.
1. I'll never understand this kind of thinking. I understand why you might say you should have expected to get a better result based on your final performance stats but that completely strips out context from the match itself. We were up 2-0 before half-time. Why should our ability to convert chances be held against us? It's not like most teams go up 2-0 and then become even more attacking afterwards. Liverpool's best attacking moments came after they were already behind by 2 goals. I'd say if you're creating a lot of chances, but not able to convert them, that's a bad thing. Perhaps it's more easily addressable in the future, but in terms of judging past performances, that should tell you that it wasn't exactly "pretty good"
2. Similarly, why should de Gea's brilliance be held against us as a whole? He's fantastic against all teams, not just Liverpool. Ask fans of any team and they'll all tell you the same story, that he makes unbelievable saves and denies them certain goals.
The 15/16 game was a 3-1 defeat under Rodgers wasn’t it?
Hi all, just wanted to say ‘Hello’ and introduce myself. My name is James (duh’), I am a Liverpool supporter. Yes, another one I’m afraid.
I’m a historian by trade, that and being a Liverpool fan are NOT connected (honest!). I have a BA in social and political history, and an MA in the study of Genocide throughout history (not much fun but an amazing subject). I am hoping to begin my PhD in September this year, on the effect of Russian Communism and Stalin in particular, on the socialist parties of Western Europe in the immediate post war era.
I have been reading ‘the caf’ for the last couple of years. It is the only forum I like, not only because of the wide and disparate variety of contributors, but also because of the general warmth, wit, and ‘feel’ of the place.
Anyway, Best Wishes,
James.
Oh, and I hate Man United....but I very much respect them as a Great club, who earned their place amongst the elite. I truly believe that.
Glory glory Man United (not added by a mod, swear)
Hey James, great to see you here. Can't believe we have another Liverpool fan!
I really like how you included a bit about your history. The study of genocide seems really interesting, hopefully you don't pick up too many ideas! (Lol, just kidding!) Let's hope the only thing Stalin about the future, is the continued stalin of the extension to Liverpool's trophy cabinet!
It's good to see a long term lurker of 'the caf'. We're a good group here (Honest!), just don't get too close to some of the regulars, they can bite if they're in the mood! I love 'the caf' because we have such a wide variety of posters. This forum never fails to make me think. For example I am currently thinking how a PHD student could find anything worthy of responding to on the 'ol' caf'.
Anyway, great to have you here,
Wumminator.
Oh and btw - feck off you Scouse prick.
Oh yes my mistake I apologise.
Not sure why your post is so defensive and passive-aggressive? But I'll look past that when responding.
Not sure how those stats are irrelevant when it comes to the performance of the team which is what I was commenting on in relation to those. In most cases those stats are very much related to performance. We were all talking about past results and saying Liverpool's results at OT were poor; all I was trying to make clear was yes the results were poor but we normally perform well as a team and seem to be up for the game. The stats have as much relevance on the OT encounter as previous results do ie not much at all but I was just trying to make it clear we normally perform well but don't get good results.
I obviously don't watch enough of De Gea to comment on whether he has that level of performance week in week out. All I know is every Liverpool game he's different class to any other keeper we face which is why I made that comment.
I don't know enough about the way Jose works to comment on how he will play so I'll leave it here in response to that. Personally, I am not sure what result to expect, like you said it just depends on what Jose plans to do with United as I'm sure we'll play the same way regardless.
I guess I was just trying to get across that the games weren't one sided and I thought that commenting on the stats would be an easy way to show that. But either way I remember the fixtures pretty well which is how I know we always turn up to OT and play well, just never seem to get a good result. In the highlighted one you were up 2-0 at HT because Mata's clearly offside goal wasn't given. Then Sterling somehow missed a sitter and then De Gea pulled off the worldy against Balotelli. Like I say we played relatively well, just couldn't get the ball in the back of the net and the bit of luck going against us obviously didn't help.
I'm not holding De Gea's brilliance against you? I don't get why you guys are so defensive about De Gea. I was literally complimenting him saying he's always the difference and is brilliant every time we play against him? I'd do anything to have a keeper like him at Liverpool. Yeah that's fair enough, I don't watch much of him bar MOTD highlights so I can't comment on his general week in week out 90 minute performances all I know is he's world class each and every time he plays us.
Even when we play well at OT we hardly ever manage to pull off a result. We'll need a bit of refereeing luck as well as a top class performance. An added incentive for Mourinho to attack us a bit would be nice too through whichever means.
Our big game record this year is decidedly average in comparison to last season so a result here would be good to give ourselves a barometer for the CL.
Although the vast majority of the sides left in the competition are footballing sides by nature. ( Europe's elite)
Our big game record this year is decidedly average in comparison to last season so a result here would be good to give ourselves a barometer for the CL.
Although the vast majority of the sides left in the competition are footballing sides by nature. ( Europe's elite)
Should have won last year but for that cnuting linesman.
Actually the penalty that put you ahead came from a corner that shouldn't have been given by said cnuting linesman. Considering up to then Pogba had spurned a 1v1 opportunity and we were on top, I wouldn't say you should have won.
With 6 minutes left in the game when Ibrahimovic scored, we would have if the linesman had seen that Fellaini was about 3 miles offside.
So it's fine to claim "we should have won" for a linesman error that goes against you, but you ignore that you were ahead in the first place because of one. Ok.
Benteke bicycle kick. We were awful that day. Literally the least fight we’ve ever shown at Old Trafford.
Let's be honest here, in-game stats such as shots/shots on target, possession, corners only become relevant if they amount to a goal being scored, failing that they become entirely irrelevant. Would you not agree?
That and the 2-0 in 06/07 are the worst I've ever seen Liverpool play at Old Trafford.
Think we lost 4-0 to you in 02/03 but Hyypia got himself sent off after four minutes so it was always an uphill task.
The 3-1 defeat in 15/16 was around about the time I completely gave up on Rodgers. Such a cowardly performance in the one fixture where it’s never ok to play like that.
I'm going to this match and absolutely can't wait.
Even the Moyes game the team getting tanked, it managed to be memorable because of the defiance of the fans singing '20 times non stop.
Saying that you could have swore Liverpool have a consistent win rate at old Trafford going by the way some off our fans keep going on about Liverpool. Ha be faith ladz
Even the Moyes game the team getting tanked, it managed to be memorable because of the defiance of the fans singing '20 times non stop.
Saying that you could have swore Liverpool have a consistent win rate at old Trafford going by the way some off our fans keep going on about Liverpool. Ha be faith ladz
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Good point but it doesn't work like that. For example if Sterling was still here Mane and or Salah may not be here.
I'm not gonna bother with the rest of your post but come on mate, this is just peak delusion.
Well I wont agree with that, at start of this season, when man UTD played us at Anfield, it was poorest performance at Anfield from any UTD team I have ever watched. Draw isn't a bad result for UTD at Anfield but most of the UTD fans didn't feel too good about it. Whereas if it was tight 2-2, fans would have felt very good about it. Another example- you guys lost to a city with very tight score line of 2-1 but man UTD faithful term it as one of the worst performance of the season. Point being performance counts in how you see a result.
In relation to performance they're normally somewhat relevant but in terms of what will happen at OT of course not. But then again neither are the previous results related to what will happen at OT this time. Whatever the case lets just hope it'll be a competitive and enjoyable game for all to watch
Not really. I remember the game well. You guys got a lucky second goal which was like 2 yards clearly offside and De Gea pulled off one of the best saves I've personally seen live as well Sterling missing an absolute sitter. Maybe a bit strong saying we were the better team but 3-0 certainly wasn't a fair representation of the performances of the teams that day.
All I was trying to get across was generally our performances at OT are pretty good even though the results never seem to be. I think it'll be a good game but hopefully for once we can get the better of De Gea!
Wrong, the amount it has wound you lot up is brilliant
Which means it must have been an even more pathetic performance from Liverpool not to be able to defeat dreadful United!
Agreed. You weren't the better team. Arguing that you were the better team in a 3-0 loss just comes across as deluded and bitter.
Wrong, the amount it has wound you lot up is brilliant
Which means it must have been an even more pathetic performance from Liverpool not to be able to defeat dreadful United!
First I didn't said we were better team or anything like that, I don't really bother about what happened in the past. My comment was to make it clear that, stats do matter, if team plays good but you still lose, you may feel disappointed but your morale doesn't take a hit. Infact it gives you inspiration to try even harder next time. That was My point.
I fail to understand why being poor at converting chances isn't part of assessing how well a team played. When we had a bunch of 0-0 draws at Old Trafford last season I counted them as poor performances despite the number of chances we created, because the conversion was absolutely dreadful. In the same vein, the performance of a goalkeeper is also part of the performance of the team.
I don't disagree. And i understand that you didn't say Liverpool were the better team on the day (even though you'd be correct to say that).
My point is that there is only so much one can criticize the United performance before looking introspectively and coming to the conclusion that Liverpool's performance wasn't good enough either, since they didn't walk away with 3 points at Anfield. If an opponent plays really badly, the onus is on you to best them. Questions must be asked if that doesn't happen.
It's partially what made SAF so great. He was highly introspective. He ensured that after a poor performance, a better one would follow - and that was partially done by motivation/hairdryer. Seldom did we not see a response after a disappointment. How times changed when he retired. Moyes was highly introspective and he masterfully ensured a poor performance was followed by an even worse performance. Anyway, I digress....
People like to conveniently fantasize about DDG not existing. "United would be midtable if not for De Gea". If we take away most teams' best players they will do worse! And DDG has been with us since 2011 so it gets a bit old hearing the same excuse spouted.
I’d take it as a backhand compliment rather than a slur. He really is a fantastic keeper - the best since Schmiechel.
But you’re also correct, Liverpool without Salah, City without De Bruyne (maybe not only him), Chelsea and Hazard and of course Spurs without Kane - independently, such scenarios would all have a detrimental effect on the respective Clubs league position.
Ofcourse Liverpool was responsible for not winning the game but my answer was to a poster who said nothing matters over the results, I disagree with such remark. In game stats and performance matters, I bet you it has happen to all once, when you feel that team did all they could but it just wasn't your day or sometimes when you feel like you just got lucky even though you win, it doesn't give you confidence going in next big match. It had nothing to do with United vs liverpool, because i feel two sets of fans can never agree on anything where rival team is pitted against their team.
Interesting latest injury stats :
Remarkably, 40 matches into the campaign, Klopp could have every member of his first-team squad available to face Rafa Benitez's side.
It's not luck, it's testament to Klopp's rotation policy and the expertise of the club's medical and sports science staff.
Much was made of the manager's constant tinkering earlier in the season - he's made more changes that any other top-flight boss.
But now Liverpool are reaping the rewards of Klopp's approach which was designed to help ensure they lasted the pace both domestically and in the Champions League.
It makes a mockery of claims from Dutch fitness coach Raymond Verheijen earlier this season that Klopp is some kind of dinosaur whose "outdated training methods" cause injuries by pushing players too far.
The former Wales assistant boss is a long-term critic of Klopp but he's been strangely quiet about the German coach since he last stuck the boot in back in October.
In reality the stats prove that injuries have reduced considerably during Klopp's reign.
The total number of days missed by Liverpool players due to soft tissue, preventable issues in 2016-17 was 144 - down from 623 the season before. There were three hamstring injuries last term compared to 17 in 2015-16.
Remarkably, 40 matches into the campaign, Klopp could have every member of his first-team squad available to face Rafa Benitez's side.
It's not luck, it's testament to Klopp's rotation policy and the expertise of the club's medical and sports science staff.
Much was made of the manager's constant tinkering earlier in the season - he's made more changes that any other top-flight boss.
But now Liverpool are reaping the rewards of Klopp's approach which was designed to help ensure they lasted the pace both domestically and in the Champions League.
It makes a mockery of claims from Dutch fitness coach Raymond Verheijen earlier this season that Klopp is some kind of dinosaur whose "outdated training methods" cause injuries by pushing players too far.
The former Wales assistant boss is a long-term critic of Klopp but he's been strangely quiet about the German coach since he last stuck the boot in back in October.
In reality the stats prove that injuries have reduced considerably during Klopp's reign.
The total number of days missed by Liverpool players due to soft tissue, preventable issues in 2016-17 was 144 - down from 623 the season before. There were three hamstring injuries last term compared to 17 in 2015-16.
Good welcoming Post!! Bravo!
The stats are much improved after getting rid of Sturridge.
Liverpool FC has filed its annual accounts for the financial year to May 31, 2017, which saw sustained growth and further investment across the club.
Summary
Overall revenue increased to £364m resulting in reported profit after tax of £39m. Over the past seven years, the club has been transformed to a financially stable, sustainable and growing football club since Fenway Sports Group (FSG) took ownership in October 2010.
Media revenue increased by £30m to £154m with the first year of a three-season Premier League broadcast deal, and commercial revenue grew by £20m to £136m following another successful year announcing 12 new partnerships including Malaysia Airlines, Konami and Joie. Three existing partners also renewed their deals, further demonstrating the club’s global appeal and consistent value to established partners. New wholesale retail businesses have also been established in USA, Hong Kong, Canada and Holland.
It was in this financial period that LFC opened its expanded Main Stand which saw an increase in Anfield’s capacity to 54,074. And despite not playing in Europe during this financial period, matchday revenue increased by £12m to £74m mainly as a result in the increased hospitality sales. Following the continued cash investment in players and capital infrastructure, net bank debt increased by £22m to £67m which is sustainable given the overall growth of the club’s financial performance.
Improving how Liverpool connects digitally with its supporters continues to be a priority for the club and reported a five-million increase in new followers taking the total to over 55m across LFC’s social media platforms.
The club also increased its commitment to the local community by introducing a new programme that is dedicated to supporting people who live in and around Anfield. Red Neighbours was launched in January 2017 and provides a range of community support programmes including unique free match tickets for over 1,100 local schoolchildren, fitness programmes for elderly residents, and vital support to help local families tackle food poverty.
On the pitch, there were six additions to the first-team squad including Sadio Mane, Georginio Wijnaldum, Loris Karius and Joel Matip. 11 first-team players left the club and seven renewed contracts. Youth players remain an important part of the club’s football strategy and 11 Academy players were offered professional contracts during this reporting period.
Andy Hughes, LFC’s chief operating officer, said: “With the full support of this ownership group, we have significantly improved the club’s financial position over the past seven years and these results further demonstrate our solid financial progress – despite the ever-rising costs in football.
“During the seven years, we have seen operating profits one year and losses in others, a situation which can be attributed, in the main, to player trading costs and the timing of payments. What is important is the underlying trend that has continued with the aim of strengthening our financial position with profits being reinvested back into the club and players, allowing this long-term stability to become a reality.
“In addition to the three-year Premier League TV deal, we have had a successful commercial year which included a new training kit partner in BetVictor, a record number of home shirts sold recognising the club’s 125th anniversary, and a successful first season with the opening of our expanded Main Stand.
“Giving back to the local community is also a priority for this football club and launching Red Neighbours during this period, in addition to the great work delivered by our Foundation, means we can support even more local people and initiatives.”
Liverpool maintained ninth position in the Deloitte football money league despite the rising cost of football and not playing in a European competition during this financial year. Since this reporting period, the club has continued its commercial progress and qualified for the UEFA Champions League.
Hughes added: “These results are approaching a year old. Further progress and reinvestments have continued to be made both on and off the pitch.
“Our recent capital projects which include the Main Stand, the new retail store, the combined training ground and the new pitch at Anfield will be close to £200m which further demonstrates the commitment from this ownership.
“We continue to work up design, capacity and economic viability options for Anfield Road working with an architect to help with that process. This follows the same comprehensive process we followed with the Main Stand expansion.
“Performance on the pitch and the reinvestment in our squad is always a priority and following the club’s record signing in January we will look to invest again in the summer.
“Progress on and off the pitch is critical to the growth of this football club – we all want success and everything we’re doing is geared toward fulfilling our football ambitions. We must also continue to manage our finances and cash flow effectively that we have worked so very hard to secure since FSG took charge of the club.”
Source: Liverpoolfc.com
Summary
- Overall revenue increased by £62m to £364m
- Reported profit after tax £39m
- Further net cash investment of £91m on players and infrastructure (£95m invested in FY2016)
- Six new player signings
- Work starts on new £50m training ground in the summer
- 12 new commercial partnerships
Overall revenue increased to £364m resulting in reported profit after tax of £39m. Over the past seven years, the club has been transformed to a financially stable, sustainable and growing football club since Fenway Sports Group (FSG) took ownership in October 2010.
Media revenue increased by £30m to £154m with the first year of a three-season Premier League broadcast deal, and commercial revenue grew by £20m to £136m following another successful year announcing 12 new partnerships including Malaysia Airlines, Konami and Joie. Three existing partners also renewed their deals, further demonstrating the club’s global appeal and consistent value to established partners. New wholesale retail businesses have also been established in USA, Hong Kong, Canada and Holland.
It was in this financial period that LFC opened its expanded Main Stand which saw an increase in Anfield’s capacity to 54,074. And despite not playing in Europe during this financial period, matchday revenue increased by £12m to £74m mainly as a result in the increased hospitality sales. Following the continued cash investment in players and capital infrastructure, net bank debt increased by £22m to £67m which is sustainable given the overall growth of the club’s financial performance.
Improving how Liverpool connects digitally with its supporters continues to be a priority for the club and reported a five-million increase in new followers taking the total to over 55m across LFC’s social media platforms.
The club also increased its commitment to the local community by introducing a new programme that is dedicated to supporting people who live in and around Anfield. Red Neighbours was launched in January 2017 and provides a range of community support programmes including unique free match tickets for over 1,100 local schoolchildren, fitness programmes for elderly residents, and vital support to help local families tackle food poverty.
On the pitch, there were six additions to the first-team squad including Sadio Mane, Georginio Wijnaldum, Loris Karius and Joel Matip. 11 first-team players left the club and seven renewed contracts. Youth players remain an important part of the club’s football strategy and 11 Academy players were offered professional contracts during this reporting period.
Andy Hughes, LFC’s chief operating officer, said: “With the full support of this ownership group, we have significantly improved the club’s financial position over the past seven years and these results further demonstrate our solid financial progress – despite the ever-rising costs in football.
“During the seven years, we have seen operating profits one year and losses in others, a situation which can be attributed, in the main, to player trading costs and the timing of payments. What is important is the underlying trend that has continued with the aim of strengthening our financial position with profits being reinvested back into the club and players, allowing this long-term stability to become a reality.
“In addition to the three-year Premier League TV deal, we have had a successful commercial year which included a new training kit partner in BetVictor, a record number of home shirts sold recognising the club’s 125th anniversary, and a successful first season with the opening of our expanded Main Stand.
“Giving back to the local community is also a priority for this football club and launching Red Neighbours during this period, in addition to the great work delivered by our Foundation, means we can support even more local people and initiatives.”
Liverpool maintained ninth position in the Deloitte football money league despite the rising cost of football and not playing in a European competition during this financial year. Since this reporting period, the club has continued its commercial progress and qualified for the UEFA Champions League.
Hughes added: “These results are approaching a year old. Further progress and reinvestments have continued to be made both on and off the pitch.
“Our recent capital projects which include the Main Stand, the new retail store, the combined training ground and the new pitch at Anfield will be close to £200m which further demonstrates the commitment from this ownership.
“We continue to work up design, capacity and economic viability options for Anfield Road working with an architect to help with that process. This follows the same comprehensive process we followed with the Main Stand expansion.
“Performance on the pitch and the reinvestment in our squad is always a priority and following the club’s record signing in January we will look to invest again in the summer.
“Progress on and off the pitch is critical to the growth of this football club – we all want success and everything we’re doing is geared toward fulfilling our football ambitions. We must also continue to manage our finances and cash flow effectively that we have worked so very hard to secure since FSG took charge of the club.”
Source: Liverpoolfc.com
Certainly looks like we're going the right way and it does explain why we're suddenly able to pay big fees and wages.
Looking forward to seeing who we bring in during the summer now
Looking forward to seeing who we bring in during the summer now
I agree. For example Arsenal vs United game at emirates where gunners did everything they could but it was just not their day. I think their fans though disappointed, didnt go hard on their players that day.
What do you need? Keita in, Can might leave. From the outside you'd think a DM, fullback and goalie.
A solid DM has been neded for a very long time. From the top of my head it's been eight or nine years since we had one.
Thanks Wumm, (I think, ha!). Great post. I do think there are some decent discussions on here.
I like to think I’ve maybe grown out of some of the tribalism (that goes out of the window next week of course) and I can give United or Chelsea a bit of credit without it hurting too much. However, before originally finding Redcafe, I did look at a few of the other prominent sites. Rawk was too partisan for me, nothing against that approach really, I just prefer an actual debate. Otherwise where’s the interest or the hook?
The worst by far was/ is Bluemoon, it’s just ridiculously over the top and pretty vile in places, especially with regards to United and Liverpool.
Anyway, thanks for taking the time to say ‘hello and welcome ‘ and to Fridge Chutney.
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