I see logic in that. Well said for our own players,same things applies for your signings,Markovic for example was not that bad,new to league and country,think his English isnt good either and on top of that,as attacking winger/midfielder he went on wing back role to do the job. Dont think all of that in this season is worth 20 mil. but he might improve in the future. Same applies for your other signings who are first time in English football.
Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense
- Thread starter Wumminator
- Start date
I see logic in that. Well said for our own players,same things applies for your signings,Markovic for example was not that bad,new to league and country,think his English isnt good either and on top of that,as attacking winger/midfielder he went on wing back role to do the job. Dont think all of that in this season is worth 20 mil. but he might improve in the future. Same applies for your other signings who are first time in English football.
Rodgers ploughs the media but more and more he's becoming exposed by it. There is a Scouse orientated press at the moment but it cannot continue to show bias. They will abandon him if this descent continues; and sell more papers in the process - it's a win-win game for them.
For sure they will turn on Rodgers at some point, but to date he is a scouse loving media darling.
Paddy Power have always struck me as ABU (what other betting firms go to such lengths to pull a stunt like this?) so seeing this backfire on them and the Scousers was very nice indeed
They sponsored them for a while, I think.
Maybe next season
The press lap up tripe.
Does anyone else think Rodgers was a bit foolish in giving the captaincy to Henderson so early? It basically means he has to be first name on the team sheet in the future and its given him a really strong bargaining position in his contract negotiations. He's on 65K and pool want to give him 80k but I think Hendo wants 120k.
He doesn't really seem like a player you build around and give that kind of money too. But you kind of have too or else he could end up leaving for free to Man City who could use him as a Milner replacement. They should have made him sign the contract first and then offer him the captaincy in the summer once gerrard had left.
Is their any concern amongst liverpool supporters that he may leave?
He doesn't really seem like a player you build around and give that kind of money too. But you kind of have too or else he could end up leaving for free to Man City who could use him as a Milner replacement. They should have made him sign the contract first and then offer him the captaincy in the summer once gerrard had left.
Is their any concern amongst liverpool supporters that he may leave?
you could probably count the minutes lambert has played, and that's with sturridge injured half the season
I posted this on another forum but it seems apt to post it here too :
Using the average age of a squad can be very misleading considering how just a handful of much older players can distort that figure (esp. in a squad where they may not actually play that often, e.g. Lambert (32), Gerrard (34), Jones (32), Johnson (30), Toure (33) and even Enrique (28) for us this season).
Using the Median is a better assessment of the number of 'young' players in a squad. Or simply take out the likely retirement / transfers of older players in the Summer and calculate the Mean from the remainder.
The current ave. age of all our players in the 1st team squad is 25.42, deduct those listed above and it's 23.28. For Chelsea it's 28.47 (excluding those 4 youngsters listed but who haven't played a game but I have included Cuadrado, 26, with 2 starts) and United it's 25.23 (exc. non-starters) and Arsenal xx (exc. non-starters). We know City have an ageing squad that needs a major over-haul but when you have the bottom-less pit of funding of City/Chelsea you can afford to buy players are their absolute prime.
The ave. age of our 'core' for most of this season (players with 5 PL starts or more) has been 24.94.
Chelsea's ave. age won't change much for next season since Terry is going to sign a new 1 yr contract though Cech (32) and probably Drogba (37) will leave of course. Since the bulk of Chelsea's players are in the 26-29 age range and having 4 over-30's, but unlike where we will likely be shedding all of those this Summer Chelsea will probably only have 2 leave, it's more than likely (with those listed above leaving and Ibe certain to become a member of the 1st team squad) that the ave. age of our 1st team squad next season will be under 25 and Chelsea's 28-29 again.
This is in general following FSG's policy, to which BR allured to and it seems he disagrees with, though both Lovren and Lallana broke the mould (*Lambert as a 3rd/4th striker can be considered irrelevant to this example). If we continue to follow a policy of buying potential then not only will we become nothing more than a feeder club but also have very limited opportunity to challenge for the PL/CL no matter the manager or the amount of time he is given.
Totally agree. I said this pre-season. He would have been the perfect replacement for when Sturridge was out, could be used in tandem and brought on as an impact sub. How on earth he failed his medical with us but passed Chelsea's is ridiculous.
If the player is bought as a gamble and not a first team signing, as Assaidi was, then why not ? Cost virtually nothing and could have proven a decent squad filler. Didn't work out and we made a profit. All top teams try this from time to time.
I posted the Echo poll of what the fans think of Sterling going in the Summer and 75% had replies indicating they were fine with it if we get 35-40m. He's a superb player in form but he's still very young and there's no guarantee he'll reach the levels of say Sanchez for example. His shooting is poor and shows no signs of improving and his decision making is often terrible. For me Ibe has a far higher ceiling, strong, powerful, excellent shot and is the fastest player at the club, goes past defenders for fun. He has a very exciting future.If they do lose Sterling in the summer, it could be an absolute disaster for them.
Sturridge isn't doing so well with injuries at the moment. More than likely missing out on the CL. I can't really see Balotelli, Lambert or Borini still being there (Well Borini I can, he's loving it there)
With lower budgets than most, and with a few positions need filling, it could be a tricky summer for them
Thanks for your explanation. I think confidence in the manager, explanations about a team with future and the "Next year will be better" are all excuses, trying to see the sun through the clouds. I think the club needs to win a premier league to remove once and for all the inferiority complex in recent years. I see it as a desperate club like Madrid in '96 when needed to win the seventh European Cup, Barcelona in 92 after failing several times in Europe, etc ... I would sign players with name to try to get inmediate results. Pay what they paid for Markovic,Lovren or Lallana seems really crazy comparing to the cost of other top players. Someone has to be responsible for all this mess. With so much patience, respect, YAWN all the time , there is the risk of falling into complacency
Indeed. And the consensus of opinion is strongly that that is the case here too.
I don't see an complacency per se., what I see is BR struggling to fit his idea of the players he requires into the FSG transfer policy. The failure of Lovren is not going to help in that regard since he was supposed to be the solution to the central defence issue. Next Summer will demonstrate whether FSG are willing to mitigate their policy or continue to insist on the majority of signings being young enough to still be classified as having greater potential that their current level. Most of the players we have been linked with fit that mould.
I wonder if the cocaine rumor was true.
Just a point on Aspas, who I think it's universally agreed is/was a total train-wreck of a signing. This is easy in retrospect, as are most transfers, to classify. However if you look at his record over the previous 2 season for Celta (in the Segunda and then La Liga) you may think that 23 goals in 35 matches in the Segunda and then 12 in 34 in La Liga (playing for a struggling side) shows potential, though I agree at 25 yrs old (then) the ceiling may not be much higher. But for 7m + add ons he was probably worth a gamble .. even if it eventually turned out to be a catastrophic failure.
It should also be noted that it's not as if we weren't trying to sign proven players either as Costa was on our radar, and was no secret, for a while. Our offer simply not being enough or being used to bolster his current contract.
It should also be noted that it's not as if we weren't trying to sign proven players either as Costa was on our radar, and was no secret, for a while. Our offer simply not being enough or being used to bolster his current contract.
Really ? I hadn't heard that one, though would still have to assume that since Chelsea took him he was clear/clean at the time. I don't know how long it takes for coke to clear the blood as far as testing goes.
I don't think there is Scouse bias but I do think the press likes to see a British manager doing well since there are so few of them at the top teams and BR is the most high profile. Fat Sam was/is getting a lot of praise too this season. I do wish BR would keep his mouth shut from time to time, though I can understand that he took a lot of flack and then wanted some pay-back when we went on a good run.
Rodgers might disagree with the owners transfer policy, but I wouldn't be comfortable at all giving him free reign on transfers. Sakho Can Sturridge all comittee signings and all look to be excellent buys. With Rodgers you have Lallana Lovren Lambert and of course the persistent links to Ashley Williams. Then of course you have Coutinho whos a plus for Rodgers and Balotelli who's a minus for the comittee. You inevitably end up in a situation where it turns into a blame game (remember the article by James Pearce in the Echo who's essentially Rodger's mouthpiece) with nobody taking responsibilty. FSG need to either stick or twist, let Rodgers live or die by his signings or bring in someone who's willing to adhere to there modus operandi. Either way we can't have another summer like the last.
I do not know much about the philosophy of the investor group to comment on them. About the coach, if he can´t get a solution in a season I do not think suddenly will get miracles in the next. Having a coach does not mean to be mortgaged to him for the future. I remember the game against Madrid this year, the press in Spain was excited to play against Liverpool at Anfield ,against a historic team...That game was embarrassing for Liverpool (sorry for the honesty). I think if the players had a phone would have tried a selfie with Cristiano or Kroos in the middle of the game. About Aspas...was one of the most controversial and less mature guys in la liga. It is amazing how a coach who seems to know la liga so well and a club that seems analyze things calmly it signs a player without knowing how he really is
Henderson won't leave - where would he go ? However he wouldn't have been my choice for captain. He needs to step up as a player not just as captain and he is rather limited positionally, for a manager that likes flexibility and options Henderson doesn't fit that mould. He is never a RW/RWB and often goes missing when played there - he can't cross well or go past players, he is also not a defensively minded CM, he is a strong, harrying CM with attacking tendencies, an eye for a pass and can pop up with a goal from time to time, and that's what he does exceptionally well. I would have given the captaincy to Skrtel, absolutely no doubt in my mind.
I think Henderson will grow into the role, he has continued to improve and (I'm assuming) sets the right example off the pitch (as well as on it too).
I don't see last Summer's activity as a total failure. There are the obvious youth transfers with the FSG stamp all over them (Markovic - who I do think will be excellent in a year or two, and Origi and he looks a strong powerful forward so who knows, his managers and team-mates all seem to speak very highly of him), there were the obvious BR signings (Lallana, Lovren, Lambert) of which Lambert is irrelevant, he cost virtually nothing and was expected to fill 3rd/4th striker role, Lallana has been unlucky with injury, both in pre-season and during the season, yes we paid a premium but the reasons for that have been well covered over the past couple of pages but Lovren is the one you can put your finger on and say "WTF happened" ? He simply shouldn't have been the total cluster-feck he's been for most of the season. Even if he's not the best defender in the PL he at least should have performed above average for that position.
Of the two very young Spanish FBs (again strong FSG policy endorsement there) was in Manquillo's case worth the gamble since he's only on loan and was only expected to back up Johnson, however injuries to senior players meant he was used far more than anticipated. Moreno he has shown enough, though remains defensively weak against the better teams, to see him becoming a better player in a season or two. It's not unusual for a young 22 yr old defender in a new league to take some time to learn positional sense ... and £12m was not outrageous. Again however I don't think he was meant to come straight in and cement LB as his own, Enrique's injuries and failure to regain his form has been a major factor in that.
Can looks a great buy at £10m, very versatile and at 20 yrs old he could prove to be the strong midfielder we are desperate for.
Balotelli was a desperation signing after Remy failed his medical just 2-3 weeks before the season started, Balo was never on the radar until that happened and was a pure gamble to get us out of a hole, it didn't come off but he had a decent enough record to be a back-up to Sturridge. Ibe wasn't ready - the 6 months at Derby did far far more for him than sitting on our bench & playing only in training would have done, it was the kick-on he needed, so he wasn't really an option at the start of the season.
There was also no-one else that we sent out on loan, bar one all very young players, who could, IMO, have stayed and replaced one of the transferees, then considering the long-term injuries to senior players (Johnson, Sturridge, Flanno, Gerrard, Enrique and on/off Lallana) it meant that the younger players were forced into the team in far from the ideal scenario.
The issue as I see it is, as I mentioned above, trying to blend FSG's youth policy with BR's immediate needs. And I agree with whoever it was above that said spending that money on 3-4 proven, high quality, first team players and dropping the previous incumbents to the bench would have been far better, however in retrospect, as far as this season went with injuries to key players, that may not have worked out either.
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Basically, every failure has a mitigating reason, loans are only loans, if sold for a similar price, it doesn't matter because no loss? I'm sorry, but that's an year gone in the calendar. A lot of Arsenal fans also have issues on that with Arsene Wenger and United fans didn't like Fergie's later year policy of 'No value in the market. There's an opportunity cost involved in almost all signings. Chelsea for example and us previously, could afford to sign Bebe, Buttner or an Obertan and see if he makes it, or sell him for the same price later. There's minimum risk involved only because we won the league anyway and their signing was not detrimental. Liverpool simply can't afford to do that, if you invested a couple of more millions and got a better player than Aspas (using him as an example here), you may have won the league/gained top 4 etc etc. This notion of 'we didn't make a loss/it's just a loan with Sahin' is fine for some clubs, but not with clubs like Liverpool.
I'll be honest, I do not like Liverpool, but if Daniel Sturridge (Think about the percentage of games he played for Liverpool after he signed and looks like a perma crock) and Sakho (Seriously, everytime I've seen him play, he looks clumsy and yet I hear Liverpool fans making fun of Smalling) are your best signings, I'd be very wary of trusting the manager with a big summer spend. The only signings that could be rated us great signings so far are Coutinho (still think he goes missing in many games) and Can (great first season, hopefully he fails next time)
I'll be honest, I do not like Liverpool, but if Daniel Sturridge (Think about the percentage of games he played for Liverpool after he signed and looks like a perma crock) and Sakho (Seriously, everytime I've seen him play, he looks clumsy and yet I hear Liverpool fans making fun of Smalling) are your best signings, I'd be very wary of trusting the manager with a big summer spend. The only signings that could be rated us great signings so far are Coutinho (still think he goes missing in many games) and Can (great first season, hopefully he fails next time)
Got no idea how you can have Can down as a great signing and not Sturridge.
The Mirror is reporting dressing room unrest at Liverpool. Some players supposedly had at a go at Rodgers after he said they weren't playing for him.
I'll be surprised if him and Sterling are both still there next summer. It could be a big summer upheaval at Liverpool.
I'll be surprised if him and Sterling are both still there next summer. It could be a big summer upheaval at Liverpool.
I'll be very surprised if Rodgers isn't here next year. Unless we go on a 9 match losing streak to end the season, of course
Realistically, who could we get to replace him? Would Ancelotti come, knowing the United job would be available a few years later? Probably not. Would Klopp come, knowing he's already at a brilliant club with better future options no doubt available? Probably not.A bit more Rafa? Hm.
I'm not sure its a case of failing the medical or not. I think it may be the same as with Demba Ba. Only certain clubs would be willing to take the hit on insurance etc of a player who isn't getting through their medical particularly well.
As for Rodgers going, why? Have they really been that bad this season?
I think people just expected more from us (and rightly so) after being one of Europe's top spenders in the summer. Truth is we had to add depth to the squad, and looking at everything as objectively as possible... We don't have a top four squad, we don't have a top four manager, we're fifth I believe in terms of league income, we don't have a top four level of pull, and yeah, the table proves it.
Glass half-full here, but I really don't think a 5th place finish would be too bad. All the teams above us are ahead of us for good reason, and if the owners/Rodgers think the best way to go about that is to buy & nurture young talent, then give the man another season, at least. Actually writing this makes me hope we keep Raheem... Not because I believe him to be some irreplaceable talisman figure like Torres/Suarez, but because there's no point in nurturing talent just to sell it.
(Although £50m would be nice)
Glass half-full here, but I really don't think a 5th place finish would be too bad. All the teams above us are ahead of us for good reason, and if the owners/Rodgers think the best way to go about that is to buy & nurture young talent, then give the man another season, at least. Actually writing this makes me hope we keep Raheem... Not because I believe him to be some irreplaceable talisman figure like Torres/Suarez, but because there's no point in nurturing talent just to sell it.
(Although £50m would be nice
)Have to disagree up until last night even the Sky app was endorsing The People for its open support of Rodgers in the Sterling issue. Frankly, the attitude of the press over Gerrard and Skirtel after the big game was quite pathetic. Given how they endorsed Rodgers over the Costa affair, the two were barely given a slapped wrist. The Telegraph with Scouse Winter was not exactly sticking the knife in over the Gunners' demolition or Rodgers' sad comments afterwards. I might agree that British managers get preference but that's a thin reason in the face of general bias.
This morning the worm has turned, as I think I said it would. Already cracks appearing and the spotlight is shifting towards the Sterling case, the losing streak and possible club crisis. It doesn't take long, they smell a rat and the press dig around. I expect your club to dig in, as always, which in the past was a good thing. Not sure it is in the modern game. Sooner or later people will get wise to Rodgers and his philosophy, after shelling out a lot of money only to build a house of straw. Been saying it since the last Europa game, your team is not very good, not really developing on last year, and now seriously in danger of dropping out of the top seven.
@Rafateria
Chelsea are linked with Henderson today, he definitely seems like the kind of workhorse that Jose likes. I think that Chelsea, Arsenal and City would be interested in him, especially with the new threatened English player quota looming.
Chelsea are linked with Henderson today, he definitely seems like the kind of workhorse that Jose likes. I think that Chelsea, Arsenal and City would be interested in him, especially with the new threatened English player quota looming.
They should definitely give Rodgers more time. He has his obvious flaws, but he's not a bad manager.
Their squad looks in poor shape to me though. There's just not enough good players available to go round and they find themselves relatively low down in the pecking order when it comes to attractive destinations.
Their squad looks in poor shape to me though. There's just not enough good players available to go round and they find themselves relatively low down in the pecking order when it comes to attractive destinations.
Liverpool haven't had a top class goalie in the last 25 years. Some would argue that Reina was but for me he wasnt a really top class keeper.
I think people just expected more from us (and rightly so) after being one of Europe's top spenders in the summer. Truth is we had to add depth to the squad, and looking at everything as objectively as possible... We don't have a top four squad, we don't have a top four manager, we're fifth I believe in terms of league income, we don't have a top four level of pull, and yeah, the table proves it.
Glass half-full here, but I really don't think a 5th place finish would be too bad. All the teams above us are ahead of us for good reason, and if the owners/Rodgers think the best way to go about that is to buy & nurture young talent, then give the man another season, at least. Actually writing this makes me hope we keep Raheem... Not because I believe him to be some irreplaceable talisman figure like Torres/Suarez, but because there's no point in nurturing talent just to sell it.
(Although £50m would be nice
Not sure we expected more but Rodgers' spending and his reasons behind them led to YOUR LOTs over expectation of success. His inability to develop on last year points to money spent in haste and set against an unrealistic philosophy. Lame performances in Europe, not that solid in the league, and tolerated by the press is a strange cocktail that couldn't last. Now comments appearing that players won't play for the manager, poor discipline and the rest of the torrid headlines just at the most crucial point of the season is a collective disaster. Have to say it has been Rodgers own making.
Your club have painted themselves into a corner with Rodgers. There is no rationale other than collecting a squad of young players and hoping for the best. The Klopp's-Rodgers style of manager of so called high intensity play have been found out and their respective league positions reveal this. There has to be more to a squad and system otherwise cracks appear. One of those was discipline. LVG banged on about discipline weeks ago and we have benefitted from it. Rodgers has banged on about his magnificent players and their discipline has dropped off.
In the long run the comparison with Dortmund is interesting because both sets of fans are left clueless about how to proceed after a dazzling previous year. Both lost their top strikers, and increased their squads. It hasn't worked and all the philosophy in the world can't change a trend of poor performances and a lack of goals. To quote Scholes a squad is only as good as its strikers - with no major funding on the horizon, the Scouses are in for a troubled summer of low expectations.
Yup. I would definitely take him at Chelsea to do a job in the midfield. He looks better to me than Ramires.
I'll be very surprised if Rodgers isn't here next year. Unless we go on a 9 match losing streak to end the season, of course
A bit more Rafa? Hm.
Spent over £100m in the summer after he came out with a remark that Spurs should be challenging for the title having spent that amount of money, despite selling the best player in the league.
Abysmal showing in the Champions League preceding an abysmal showing in the Europa League.
If he doesn't win the FA Cup or get top 4 I think he's gone. I've never seen Rodgers so downbeat after a game. Normally he comes up with rubbish about his team being 'outstanding' but he didn't even try this time. If he has actually lost the dressing room then that's even more reason to get rid of him.
Rodgers may see the City job free this summer and will rightly see them as a better bet to win trophies and recent rumours suggest he may be in the running for it. It would not be unfair to sack him after what may end up being in a season in which he misses every objective set.
Don't see why Henderson would come here and be a squad player when he'd start every match and possibly be captain at Liverpool.
Also don't think he'd be that much of an upgrade over Ramires. Mikel, yes.
In the Telegraph, Brenty's been straight on to Chris Bascombe to downplay any adverse fall-out from the weekend - now upbeat again, all about winning the last 7 games and a nice reference that Wed is their ''2nd semi final of the season''.
They'd be daft to sack the silly sausage though,wouldn't they?
They'd be daft to sack the silly sausage though,wouldn't they?