Liverpool 2014/15 | WARNING: Contains strong amounts of Scouse nonsense

Posted this in the match day thread, but since I'm promoted it can probably go here.
First and foremost, congratulations to United on a thoroughly deserved win. I expected us to start this game with a high intensity in your face ferocious pace, instead we were anything but, lackluster, lacking in aggression and failing to live with a simple yet extremely effective approach.Moreno at fault for both goals the lads not a bad player, but he doesn't do enough in an attacking sense and his main strength his crossing, is not a tactic we've ever utilised under Rodgers. I can see why he played Sterling at Wing-back, but it's made us look oh so predictable as neither Coutinho nor Lallana make any runs beyond the striker and Lallana in particular, constantly slows us down on the transition with his ridiculously inefficient Cruyff turns.

United kept the ball really well and dictated the tempo with consummate ease in the first half, i was genuinely astounded in the manner that half panned out I can't recall the last time we were that badly outplayed on home turf, Van Gaal got his tactics spot on. Still even at half time i thought with a few tactical tweaks we would still go on to win, however our captain threw the half time team talk out the window within a minute proceeding to get sent off in ludicrous fashion. We showed fight though, and Sturridge finished nicely and on another day we might've got a point or three, top four looks in doubt, but I'm hoping we're not looking back at this game ruefully as the defining fixture.
Once again well done to United on an excellent performance, definitely deserved on the balance of play, although yer don't half take your time with throw ins and goal kicks.

My Liverpool MOTM- Sakho, another assured defensive display and excellent on the ball, will always have his detractors and will never fully receive the plaudits he deserves due to the ungainly manner in which he plays, but anyone who's followed his career will tell you just how good he is. My pick for captain also.

Overall MOTM- Juan Mata- scored a breathtakingly spectacular goal, was always calm and poised in possession and I noticed he was providing passing angles and opening up channels that weren't always taken advantage of. Shut up the Mourinho bandwagon critics also, did more than his fair share of tracking back.

Great game, hopefully there is a few more twists and turns yet. :D


Edit-
Tactically Van Gaal neutralised our pressing game extremely well and implemented one of his own, that Swansea game seems to be a blueprint for managers and honestly Rodgers should've forseen that and tweaked the formation tactically during the week, his naivety shone through there. Would like to see Lucas and Ibe straight back in with Sterling supporting Sturridge, that should help negate the goal-scoring issue. If not that I'd like to see us switch to a diamond in the middle and push up Sterling and Markovic/Ibe alongside Sturridge to create some width and players who will almost always beat there man. Arsenal game a must win now.
 
Dumbstar said:
For the first time here I agree with Empire. All but the last paragraph. The way Blind pressed Sterling (intelligently rather than with force) epitomised that. Lots of learning to do yet for our young players. This experience should help them and a young Rodgers.

#gloryglorymanutd
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Rodgers is 42.

Louis van Gaal was 44 when he won the champions league with a bunch of dutch kids, he almost defended it the year after had it not been for a loss to Juventus on penalties in the final! I think he was 41 when he won the Uefa cup.

Mourinho was 41 when he won the champions league with FC Porto, aged 40 he did a treble I think winning the domestic league, domestic cup and Uefa Cup.

Guardiola was 38 when he won the treble with Barcelona including champions league.

Alex Ferguson was 35 when he won the scottish league with St. Mirren, 38 when he did it again with Aberdeen and 41 when he won the Uefa cup with Aberdeen.

A club like Liverpool should be challenging for the highest honours, you can't let your standards slip, you can't become a club that hires managers who have a lot of learning to do (every manager grows but they should already have mastery at this age). Rodgers should be given another season or two, three at most, last season justifies that, if you don't look like challenging for the championship though soon then you need to start looking elsewhere but of course only sack him when you have an excellent manager lined up.

Restoring Liverpool to its former glory is a challenge that I'm sure would interest some top managers. Louis van Gaal was available in 2009, he applied for the Sunderland job, they thought Steve Bruce was the better manager and hired him instead, in the end Louis van Gaal got himself a job at a Bayern team in crisis. Now Benitez did brilliant in 2008 - 09 but the next season you were looking for a new manager, Louis van Gaal's availability came a season too early but the point is managers with track records do become available and they will be interested.

What if Ancelotti (won champions league aged 43) joins City and Simeone (aged 42 won Europa league) wants to leave too this season, Simeone might find getting a top job difficult due to availability and so a destination like Liverpool might be attractive. Of course for now you should stick with Rodgers but the point is if he doesn't deliver soon then there will always be managers with good records looking for new jobs and it might be worth exploring that because Liverpool should be winning championships and champions leagues, Rodgers really isn't that young even though he tries to act it, you know fake tans, teeth whitening, cheating on his wife, renting an apartment from one of his players, he wants to be with the cool kids but he really needs to grow up and start acting like a manager.
 
I take your points @Empire but the fact you're using the world's best managers as a yardstick to assess Rodgers is pretty reassuring. Rodgers gets a bad press on here, when he does wonderfully well he gets faint praise but always a suspicion of fluke. As soon as he has one or two bad games everyone will jump on him from a great height a do Stevie G on his head for good measure.

In some ways I'm happy that you lot now, finally, acknowledge that he's no Moyes or Martinez (managers also considered better than him on here not more than 18 months ago).

Simeone won't come here, Klopp would be a gamble considering the season he's just had. Ancelloti won't want to touch us (City bound probably). Out of every other remaining realistic managers out there I'd take Rodgers over all of them.

#gloryglorymanutd
 
@Dumbstar

I would use the same measurement if Moyes was at United. I'm using the best managers to compare the Liverpool manager, even if it was Hodgson it's the same, that's on the assumption I think a club with Liverpool's history and finances would still be attractive to some top managers in world football therefore Rodgers (or whoever is in charge) needs to prove they are in that category but if they aren't then they are not good enough for the club.

Those managers I mentioned at Rodgers' age had won leagues and champions leagues or Europa leagues (and many of those sides didn't have the financial power of Liverpool), Rodgers doesn't look like doing either anytime soon and if he doesn't then he might not be good enough for the club.

What is your ambition for Liverpool? Because I'm not sure I would use the term young to describe him if you want to be one of the best in Europe.
 
Empire said:
@Dumbstar

I would use the same measurement if Moyes was at United. I'm using the best managers to compare the Liverpool manager, even if it was Hodgson it's the same, that's on the assumption I think a club with Liverpool's history and finances would still be attractive to some top managers in world football therefore Rodgers (or whoever is in charge) needs to prove they are in that category but if they aren't then they are not good enough for the club.

Those managers I mentioned at Rodgers' age had won leagues and champions leagues or Europa leagues (and many of those sides didn't have the financial power of Liverpool), Rodgers doesn't look like doing either anytime soon and if he doesn't then he might not be good enough for the club.

What is your ambition for Liverpool? Because I'm not sure I would use the term young to describe him if you want to be one of the best in Europe.
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My ambition for him is to get a proper team together, so we can start a season reasonably strongly. We know we can finish it strongly. My dream is for him to win us the league soon, if not then be right up there challenging for it. It will make all you laugh and label me a WUM again but he does make footballers play some neat football.

However, he still has some learning to do against some counter-formations and European experience. However, that all comes with time and losses. When you lose you learn more than when you win. I'm hoping he's making use of those notes he takes.

#gloryglorymanutd
 
Dumbstar said:
My ambition for him is to get a proper team together, so we can start a season reasonably strongly. We know we can finish it strongly. My dream is for him to win us the league soon, if not then be right up there challenging for it. It will make all you laugh and label me a WUM again but he does make footballers play some neat football.

However, he still has some learning to do against some counter-formations and European experience. However, that all comes with time and losses. When you lose you learn more than when you win. I'm hoping he's making use of those notes he takes.

#gloryglorymanutd
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Fair enough, it's going to be difficult to break into the top four if he can't this season, the rivals will strengthen. Perhaps with better defending he can start well and then who knows, if he is one of the best managers he needs to prove it in the next few seasons, he is at an age now where he needs to be winning things.
 
Cheesy said:
To be fair, I'd imagine that was because Liverpool have been in good form lately and often get a result against us at Anfield. Not to mention that until the Spurs game, some of our football had been rather poor, even if we'd been managing to get some results.

The bookies had them clear favourites,
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Liver_bird said:
Posted this in the match day thread, but since I'm promoted it can probably go here.
First and foremost, congratulations to United on a thoroughly deserved win. I expected us to start this game with a high intensity in your face ferocious pace, instead we were anything but, lackluster, lacking in aggression and failing to live with a simple yet extremely effective approach.Moreno at fault for both goals the lads not a bad player, but he doesn't do enough in an attacking sense and his main strength his crossing, is not a tactic we've ever utilised under Rodgers. I can see why he played Sterling at Wing-back, but it's made us look oh so predictable as neither Coutinho nor Lallana make any runs beyond the striker and Lallana in particular, constantly slows us down on the transition with his ridiculously inefficient Cruyff turns.

United kept the ball really well and dictated the tempo with consummate ease in the first half, i was genuinely astounded in the manner that half panned out I can't recall the last time we were that badly outplayed on home turf, Van Gaal got his tactics spot on. Still even at half time i thought with a few tactical tweaks we would still go on to win, however our captain threw the half time team talk out the window within a minute proceeding to get sent off in ludicrous fashion. We showed fight though, and Sturridge finished nicely and on another day we might've got a point or three, top four looks in doubt, but I'm hoping we're not looking back at this game ruefully as the defining fixture.
Once again well done to United on an excellent performance, definitely deserved on the balance of play, although yer don't half take your time with throw ins and goal kicks.

My Liverpool MOTM- Sakho, another assured defensive display and excellent on the ball, will always have his detractors and will never fully receive the plaudits he deserves due to the ungainly manner in which he plays, but anyone who's followed his career will tell you just how good he is. My pick for captain also.

Overall MOTM- Juan Mata- scored a breathtakingly spectacular goal, was always calm and poised in possession and I noticed he was providing passing angles and opening up channels that weren't always taken advantage of. Shut up the Mourinho bandwagon critics also, did more than his fair share of tracking back.

Great game, hopefully there is a few more twists and turns yet. :D


Edit-
Tactically Van Gaal neutralised our pressing game extremely well and implemented one of his own, that Swansea game seems to be a blueprint for managers and honestly Rodgers should've forseen that and tweaked the formation tactically during the week, his naivety shone through there. Would like to see Lucas and Ibe straight back in with Sterling supporting Sturridge, that should help negate the goal-scoring issue. If not that I'd like to see us switch to a diamond in the middle and push up Sterling and Markovic/Ibe alongside Sturridge to create some width and players who will almost always beat there man. Arsenal game a must win now.
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Liver_bird said:
Posted this in the match day thread, but since I'm promoted it can probably go here.
First and foremost, congratulations to United on a thoroughly deserved win. I expected us to start this game with a high intensity in your face ferocious pace, instead we were anything but, lackluster, lacking in aggression and failing to live with a simple yet extremely effective approach.Moreno at fault for both goals the lads not a bad player, but he doesn't do enough in an attacking sense and his main strength his crossing, is not a tactic we've ever utilised under Rodgers. I can see why he played Sterling at Wing-back, but it's made us look oh so predictable as neither Coutinho nor Lallana make any runs beyond the striker and Lallana in particular, constantly slows us down on the transition with his ridiculously inefficient Cruyff turns.

United kept the ball really well and dictated the tempo with consummate ease in the first half, i was genuinely astounded in the manner that half panned out I can't recall the last time we were that badly outplayed on home turf, Van Gaal got his tactics spot on. Still even at half time i thought with a few tactical tweaks we would still go on to win, however our captain threw the half time team talk out the window within a minute proceeding to get sent off in ludicrous fashion. We showed fight though, and Sturridge finished nicely and on another day we might've got a point or three, top four looks in doubt, but I'm hoping we're not looking back at this game ruefully as the defining fixture.
Once again well done to United on an excellent performance, definitely deserved on the balance of play, although yer don't half take your time with throw ins and goal kicks.

My Liverpool MOTM- Sakho, another assured defensive display and excellent on the ball, will always have his detractors and will never fully receive the plaudits he deserves due to the ungainly manner in which he plays, but anyone who's followed his career will tell you just how good he is. My pick for captain also.

Overall MOTM- Juan Mata- scored a breathtakingly spectacular goal, was always calm and poised in possession and I noticed he was providing passing angles and opening up channels that weren't always taken advantage of. Shut up the Mourinho bandwagon critics also, did more than his fair share of tracking back.

Great game, hopefully there is a few more twists and turns yet. :D


Edit-
Tactically Van Gaal neutralised our pressing game extremely well and implemented one of his own, that Swansea game seems to be a blueprint for managers and honestly Rodgers should've forseen that and tweaked the formation tactically during the week, his naivety shone through there. Would like to see Lucas and Ibe straight back in with Sterling supporting Sturridge, that should help negate the goal-scoring issue. If not that I'd like to see us switch to a diamond in the middle and push up Sterling and Markovic/Ibe alongside Sturridge to create some width and players who will almost always beat there man. Arsenal game a must win now.
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Welcome to the mains :)
 
Liver_bird said:
Posted this in the match day thread, but since I'm promoted it can probably go here.
First and foremost, congratulations to United on a thoroughly deserved win. I expected us to start this game with a high intensity in your face ferocious pace, instead we were anything but, lackluster, lacking in aggression and failing to live with a simple yet extremely effective approach.Moreno at fault for both goals the lads not a bad player, but he doesn't do enough in an attacking sense and his main strength his crossing, is not a tactic we've ever utilised under Rodgers. I can see why he played Sterling at Wing-back, but it's made us look oh so predictable as neither Coutinho nor Lallana make any runs beyond the striker and Lallana in particular, constantly slows us down on the transition with his ridiculously inefficient Cruyff turns.

United kept the ball really well and dictated the tempo with consummate ease in the first half, i was genuinely astounded in the manner that half panned out I can't recall the last time we were that badly outplayed on home turf, Van Gaal got his tactics spot on. Still even at half time i thought with a few tactical tweaks we would still go on to win, however our captain threw the half time team talk out the window within a minute proceeding to get sent off in ludicrous fashion. We showed fight though, and Sturridge finished nicely and on another day we might've got a point or three, top four looks in doubt, but I'm hoping we're not looking back at this game ruefully as the defining fixture.
Once again well done to United on an excellent performance, definitely deserved on the balance of play, although yer don't half take your time with throw ins and goal kicks.

My Liverpool MOTM- Sakho, another assured defensive display and excellent on the ball, will always have his detractors and will never fully receive the plaudits he deserves due to the ungainly manner in which he plays, but anyone who's followed his career will tell you just how good he is. My pick for captain also.

Overall MOTM- Juan Mata- scored a breathtakingly spectacular goal, was always calm and poised in possession and I noticed he was providing passing angles and opening up channels that weren't always taken advantage of. Shut up the Mourinho bandwagon critics also, did more than his fair share of tracking back.

Great game, hopefully there is a few more twists and turns yet. :D


Edit-
Tactically Van Gaal neutralised our pressing game extremely well and implemented one of his own, that Swansea game seems to be a blueprint for managers and honestly Rodgers should've forseen that and tweaked the formation tactically during the week, his naivety shone through there. Would like to see Lucas and Ibe straight back in with Sterling supporting Sturridge, that should help negate the goal-scoring issue. If not that I'd like to see us switch to a diamond in the middle and push up Sterling and Markovic/Ibe alongside Sturridge to create some width and players who will almost always beat there man. Arsenal game a must win now.
Click to expand...


Nice post Liver_bird - thank you. You'll be a very welcome addition to the Mains.
 
Liver_bird said:
My Liverpool MOTM- Sakho, another assured defensive display and excellent on the ball, will always have his detractors and will never fully receive the plaudits he deserves due to the ungainly manner in which he plays, but anyone who's followed his career will tell you just how good he is. My pick for captain also.
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Actually, just about as many people who have followed his career will say otherwise. He's got as many fans as he has detractors.

But anyway, good post overall, and welcome to the mains. Try not to go crazy like all the other Scousers! :)
 
Sturridge pulled out of the England games through injury, but wouldn't be surprised to see him start against Arsenal tbh
 
Can's out as well after having his ankles broken by Blind.

ParchedTidyItalianbrownbear.gif
 
Rooney in Dublin said:
Actually, just about as many people who have followed his career will say otherwise. He's got as many fans as he has detractors.

But anyway, good post overall, and welcome to the mains. Try not to go crazy like all the other Scousers! :)
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We'll have to agree to disagree then. ;)
 
Liver_bird said:
We'll have to agree to disagree then. ;)
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FWIW, I think Sakho's a very average defender. I think he's overrated by 'pool fans, but at the same time, opposition fans (i.e. most on here) put too much significance on the moments of madness and lapses in concentration that he's had.
 
Alex99 said:
FWIW, I think Sakho's a very average defender. I think he's overrated by 'pool fans, but at the same time, opposition fans (i.e. most on here) put too much significance on the moments of madness and lapses in concentration that he's had.
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Quite certainly I and most other Liverpool fans I know think he's the bees knees, most opposition fans think he's awful or like you say, very average. As is often the case the truth lies somewhere in between, good defender with a lot of potential scope for improvement. Certainly the best in his position we have at the club, his play style will always mean those lapses of concentration he has are accentuated by fans and pundits alike.
 
Skills said:
Can's out as well after having his ankles broken by Blind.

ParchedTidyItalianbrownbear.gif
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What a shame Can hasn't played a single minute at the match at Old Trafford otherwise his record against us would be

Leverkusen
2-4
0-5
Liverpool
0-3
1-2

+ Valencia (Yeah Antonio Valencia) totally destroyed him in both matches in his Leverkusen days, this gif above and the foul against Blind for the penalty
 
Tarrou said:
I chuckle every time I see someone say "Barney's alright" or some other such nonsense. He was a cnut. He lacked any kind of intelligence or charm that might sometimes afford a cnut a bit of leeway in life. Contributed absolutely nothing other than sliming around the scouse threads and generally acting like a butthurt school kid, unless you count the fact it was mildly funny to observe his dimwitted attempts at WUMing. I don't remember him once contributing to a thread where someone asked for help, or him posting something funny or interesting or worthwhile, ever.
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Agreed, was a weapon!
 
Empire said:
Louis van Gaal predicted before the match the team that beats the pressure will win, he trained his team to prevent Liverpool's pressing and trained them to press high up the pitch to force Liverpool into mistakes.

In the first half he said they did it but in the second after the sending off the players got complacent and didn't press.

I'm not sure what Rodgers' prediction was before the match but he did touch upon the importance of being high intensity, it's possible he thought it was a case of Liverpool pressing and passing with that high intensity and United simply wouldn't cope.

For Louis van Gaal it was easy, he knew what Rodgers was going to do but for Rodgers not so much, he had only the Spurs game as a reference but prior to that all indications were that United would be slow, hesitant and nervous in possession of the ball and so Liverpool's pressure would force them into many mistakes.

In the end I think it came down to preparation, United knew exactly what to do to counter Liverpool but Liverpool were surprised at how United played and had not been prepared for it. It's not that they lacked intensity but United prevented them from implementing that game, I also think when in possession they panicked because United were clever, they as usual tried to move the ball quickly but United cut off the spaces they could attack which mean't their pass was only going to be intercepted.

In truth Swansea put a lot of pressure on Liverpool and they caused problems, it's public knowledge Louis van Gaal will exploit any weakness possible therefore this should have been practiced in training. Rodgers in his post match press conference expressed disappointment Liverpool didn't press well in the first half and stated this was because the players were too deep however I would argue Liverpool were forced deep because they didn't know how to counter United. They started the first half 3-4-3 but as the minutes went on Coutinho and Lallana dropped making a 3-6-1, United forced them deep.

I honestly think it was not a lack of intensity that lost them the game but a lack of preparation. In his post match press conference Louis van Gaal said 'we beat them with their own weapons', for Rodgers it was a tactical surprise, nobody expected Liverpool to be beaten in the pressing game but if it happens then it's upto the players to figure out a solution on the field, I think this is why Louis van Gaal is determined to make the players think and not rely on instinct, he has said numerous times the players need to coach each other when on the field and his job is only to prepare them.

Rodgers probably knew on the touchline what they could do to make things more difficult for United and get themselves back into the match in the first half but he can't get the message to the players. This is the consequence of wanting every player in the team to be incredibly hardworking, Louis van Gaal said "Running is for animals. You need a brain and a ball for football.", he wants every player in the team to be intelligent first and foremost.

I mean look at how Liverpool press and look at how we did it, we had elegance and control, when they press they just run at maximum speed to harass the player, they're like a bunch of wild animals, they sprint, all of them sprint, it's a million miles an hour with them and Rodgers selects for traits like Stamina, survive or perish, if you don't have it you're not in the team, it really was animals vs humans. Think back to the Mourinho game, it was a little different then, they had a wild vampire and the humans really had to be careful, they were defensive but it was a simple strategy, give them the bait and they'll take it then just exploit all that space they leave behind and the crazy thing is they needed only a draw but look at how they played, like a bunch of barbarians.
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I think this is a brilliant post.

On Sturridge, is he really injured? Or is he just going to miss the international break to ensure he doesn't actually get injured?
 
Dumbstar said:
My ambition for him is to get a proper team together, so we can start a season reasonably strongly. We know we can finish it strongly. My dream is for him to win us the league soon, if not then be right up there challenging for it. It will make all you laugh and label me a WUM again but he does make footballers play some neat football.

However, he still has some learning to do against some counter-formations and European experience. However, that all comes with time and losses. When you lose you learn more than when you win. I'm hoping he's making use of those notes he takes.

#gloryglorymanutd
Click to expand...
Why do you think you've started the last two seasons so poorly? You've picked up pace after new year, although you were far more convincing last year.
 
Red Katie said:
Why do you think you've started the last two seasons so poorly? You've picked up pace after new year, although you were far more convincing last year.
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We started last season with three wins and we were top at Christmas.

Are you sure you watch football?
 
ShadesOfTomato said:
We started last season with three wins and we were top at Christmas.

Are you sure you watch football?
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My bad as I was sure you started last season slow. But you do seem to become stronger as the season progresses and wanted some thoughts on that. No need to be rude as I do watch my fair share of football, yes.
 
Red Katie said:
My bad as I was sure you started last season slow. But you do seem to become stronger as the season progresses and wanted some thoughts on that. No need to be rude as I do watch my fair share of football, yes.
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You're right, Liverpool only managed to pick up two more points than us in the first half of last season (and we were awful) and lost 5 games by the end of the year, sitting in 5th place.
 
Red Katie said:
My bad as I was sure you started last season slow. But you do seem to become stronger as the season progresses and wanted some thoughts on that. No need to be rude as I do watch my fair share of football, yes.
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My apologies, a bit cranky this morning.
 
Sakho looked very good in this game, I've seen a lot of people here mocking his passing and composure. Was this one off or is he quite good CB?

I hope this game makes a lot of demage on their confidence.
 
ZDwyr said:
On Sturridge, is he really injured? Or is he just going to miss the international break to ensure he doesn't actually get injured?
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Hip apparently, read a report that he reported for international duty and was actually sent home by the England medical team after they examined him.
 
Liver_bird said:
We'll have to agree to disagree then. ;)
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We can agree to disagree on his level, no problem, but that wasn't the point I was making. You said 'anyone that's followed his career will tell you how good he is'. Given I live in Paris, I have a lot of PSG supporting mates who have followed his career, and their rating of him is definitely not as unanimous as you're trying to make out.
 
Break's come at a good time for them. They've not really played well for a few weeks drawing with Blackburn at Anfield and also playing quite poorly against Swansea.
 
Borys said:
Sakho looked very good in this game, I've seen a lot of people here mocking his passing and composure. Was this one off or is he quite good CB?

I hope this game makes a lot of demage on their confidence.
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He's just a bit ungainly on the ball but his passing is fairly decent he usually picks out good forward agressive passes when given time. The only times he gets in a muddle is when there's no outlet for him to pass to, or he's sometimes guilty of dwelling on the ball slightly too long and inviting pressure. He'd be the first defender on my teamsheet thats for sure.
 
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Rooney in Dublin said:
We can agree to disagree on his level, no problem, but that wasn't the point I was making. You said 'anyone that's followed his career will tell you how good he is'. Given I live in Paris, I have a lot of PSG supporting mates who have followed his career, and their rating of him is definitely not as unanimous as you're trying to make out.
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Fair enough, I was basing my opinion on the very small handful of PSG and french fans i know, never a good overall barometer.
 
ArmandTamzarian said:
He's just a bit ungainly on the ball but his passing is fairly decent he usually pick out good forward agressive passes when given time. The only times he gets in a muddle is when there's no outlet for him to pass to, or he's sometimes guilty of dwelling on the ball slkightly too long and inviting pressure. He'd be the first defender on my teamsheet thats for sure.
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Agreed, my main gripe with him is his tendency to always try and keep it on the deck rather than just put his foot through it.
 
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