Why are you arsed
Lisandro Martinez | Signs for United
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik (@Rood) and Jamie (@Vault Dweller) get the depressing job of reviewing United's 3-0 loss at Old Trafford to Liverpool. They discuss what went wrong, Casemiro's day to forget, and the pressure now on Erik Ten Hag. They also take some time to give McTominay a proper farewell, and give their overall thoughts on the Summer Transfer Window.
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Why are you arsed
Ajax are committing Daylight robbery at this prices.
He's only in the place 5 minutes.
Aren't you?
You don't complain about the way united pay for players, transfer fee and wages? Never?
It is what it is. We’ve cleared out lots from the squad already. There’s money and wages to spend. So what.
This is utter bullshit.
For one this Ten Hag damaging his legacy is being taken out of proportion a bit. I saw the video where Mike Verweij (tier 1 Ajax journalist) mentioned this. By the way he worded it, to me it did sound much more his opinion than Ajax officials feeling this way.
It is however becoming a more mutual feeling within the fanbase. You can say he has signed 0 players. But the fact is he first tried Timber, then when it didn't work he goes after Martinez and unless media are making everything up, he is also going after Antony. This eventhough Ajax have stated it doesnt want to sell Antony and Martinez and he should know this himself as well.
Ten Hag should treat Ajax with respect and not go after all Ajax players and unsettling them, whilst he knows the club does not want to sell these players. And then if you really feel like you need (one of) these players, at least pay up the requested fee to make Ajax sell a player against its will.
Suggesting Ajax should let its most valuable players go for cheap because Ten Hag wants them is one if the most ridiculous things I've ever read.
Nevertheless, the sentiment is ruining his credits within Ajax applies to a part of the fanbase. I don't think this is a feeling that lives within the management.
Daylight robbery for Brian Brobbey is next.
This would be like the spending on Maguire and AWB.
If everyone is fine with that then good, but don't make his performance thread toxic in the future.
I think alot of people, me included, trust Ten Hag and his judgement - until proven otherwise.
The bolded part is the bit I disagree with.
Klopp joined after the 15/16 started and wasn't around for the summer transfer window then. They had a typical, mediocre Liverpool-like window where they signed Ings, Clyne, Firmino, Benteke, Milner, Joe Gomez. Klopp almost had an entire season to evaluate the squad. I believe they were still moneyballing it then even if Edwards wasn't officially the sporting director. He had been working since basically FSG took over.
16/17 (Klopp's first full season): They got Mane, Matip, Wijnaldum and some random Bundesliga players who had no impact on the Pool season. This was the season where they scored a bucketload of goals and ended up conceding a lot as well. I'd argue the Bundesliga players had no relevance to this, it was just Klopp's coaching and signings outside the Bundesliga. In fact I remember Matip being trolled pretty hard that season. Their starting XI then:
Mignolet, Clyne, Matip, Lovren, Milner (LB), Can, Henderson, Wijnaldum, Mane, Firmino, Coutinho.
Maybe you can call Mane a Klopp signing but not anyone else in that list.
100% agree with this which is why I think we've had a discussion on if Rangnick can achieve anything as an interim given he doesn't employ positional play himself and if the Rangnick -> Ten Hag transition would be smooth. Even when Rangnick was appointed, Ten Hag was heavily linked to the permanent United job.
Anyway, Ralf imploded for unrelated reasons so we'll never find out the answer to that question.
Check this vid already posted, at 1:25, 2:37 and 5:30 he gets annihilated for pace.
I haven't seen enough of him to give a true judgement and it is quite likely I am overreacting to an off game (where he may have been carrying a knock for all I know) but still those moments are worrying.
So you rate Antony and Martinez the same as Maguire and AWB? Interesting
Just go back to the old Maguire transfer thread you'll realize we rate the new player every year
He's tiny and slow.
What could go wrong?
What could go wrong?
Should be adequate vs all the minnows in the Europa/Conference league
Actually it's you who has been unable to comprehend here. You made a statement and I added something else to it.
I have not watched a lot of Ajax but that gets me more worried about Ten Haag then Martinez tbh. That's a ridiculous high line they are employing with someone like Blind and they are so open for breaks. Something like that is what Leeds do in the PL and they get anhilated.
I wonder what your reaction of Fergie would have been when he lost isolated games? Where his teams were poor.
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Do you ever post without whinging? You certainly haven’t todayLeeds signed Feyenoord colombian winger Sinisterra, 23 for £21m pounds.
23 goals and 14 assist in all comp.
Where as United would double that for Martinez and even more for Antony
Thats the name of the game. 75% of the time it helps you dominate the game, others you get broken and let in chances.
We just signed their star LB for 13m mate. Maybe Feyenoord just give fair prices.Leeds signed Feyenoord colombian winger Sinisterra, 23 for £21m pounds.
23 goals and 14 assist in all comp.
Where as United would double that for Martinez and even more for Antony
Klopp joined Liverpool in October 2015 and his first summer window, was the summer of 2016. And Liverpool's transfer budget wasn't anywhere close to ours, so Klopp targeted players he was familiar with. And those players were mostly low risk punts from Germany, with the exception of Sadio Mane who was a Klopp signing, and he (Mane) was well versed in Klopp's heavy metal football approach from his time with RedBull Salzburg.
Players you've listed like Henderson, Coutinho, Lallana, Lambert etc were already there at the club when Klopp joined, and they were mostly Brendan Rodgers signings or transfer committe signings. But even the low risk punts he took in Germany came off for him because Matip on a free transfer has been a valuable player for Liverpool for a number of years now. So in that window two of the players he signed (Matip and Mane) via Germany and the RedBull link came good for him in a big way. So the strategy worked imo.
The common denominator here is Klopp's approach to the game at that time, which was to sign players who were in-tune with his heavy metal approach to the game whilst also having the attributes to apply the counter press in coordination with the team off the ball. And also having a strong 'rest defence' structure where players in the defensive transition were strong at defending a large space in isolation. Klopp got that going in his first full season at the club and they finished 4th. He's currently added positional play on the ball to his arsenal via the Dutch coach, Ljinders.
If Klopp had the finances I'm pretty sure he would've attempted to sign better players from Germany. But Liverpool had finished 8th in the league and they didn't have a lot to spend. But his big signing was Mane who he himself confirmed was a target for him at Dortmund via the 'Made in Senegal' documentary on Sadio Mane.
I think in our current situation with the two head scouts leaving, it's best to leave things to the judgement of ten Hag and the two scouts in Holland, Roy Buekenkamp and Henny de Regt. Because it's been widely reported that the scouts at the club drew up the final lists in January and ratified/filtered the process in April. So if you sack the two head scouts, then why utilise the work they've done up until April.
The biggest mistake we made in the last 5/6 years was to not appoint a director of football immediately post Mourinho. Because if Woodward had installed John Murtough in the role immediately post Mourinho, then I believe we would've had a functioning scouting and data analytics departments, that likely would've been aligned/streamlined to help/aid the head coach. The situation we're in now, is that we have a DoF without his choice of head scouts to lead the recruitment department. So it'll be interesting to see who is installed as the head of recruitment for next season. We have been linked to Lee Dykes, so it'll be interesting to see who is brought into lead the sub department in question. I think by the next summer window, we'll see the influence of the new head of recruitment.
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So I’m not making valid points then? Or what are you trying to say?
So to put this into context we have signed one player who was already moving to another club for a accepted sum. We seem just terrible at this, City and Liverpool just seem to be so much smoother when it comes to transfers it's beyond comical.
I'd rather someone faster and taller anyway. This guys not worth silly money. There will be games where he's starting with Maguire. Our CB has to have solid pace.
He probably does have a plan but it will take more than a few weeks to implement.
He knows his Ajax team so it's natural he'll go for what he knows while he implements his longer term plans.
Would you trust the current scouts if you were ETH ? I wouldn't.
The only doubt would be that we'd overpay for Ajax players.
Sack Fergie sell Giggs
That's what I keep trying to tell myself
Everything about this pre season so far is very moyes'esque, unproven manager at a big club that seems to want to play it safe with recruiting players from his old club who are asking for silly prices (fellaini, baines), new director taking over (woodward), most high profile player wants out with Chelse being linked (rooney), chasing a high profile midfielder that would prefer to be playing for Barca (fabregas).
I think there is a good chance we could finish 7th again as well if we don’t have good window.
It’s hard to see at this point and I hope I am proved wrong completely. I think in general it’s on ETH, whether he can setup the team and manage the game properly against different types of opponents in EPL. There will be a learning curve. I equally hope our fan base not immediately call our players crap after every negative result.
Other than him ofcourse being proven at a big club and this not being Murthough's first summer.
A very ignorant and lazy post
We are closer to Villa, Hammers and Newcastle if we fail to buy 2-3 starting players. Unless ETH can work some real magic with McFred, Martial, Maguire and Rashford. I cannot believe that we are going on a tour 4 weeks from the season starting and we have McFred and Garner as CM.
Not really wrong though is it.
The difference is ETH is a top tier CL quality manager chasing CL quality players that he used to work with. Whereas Moyes was a midtable no mark.
Personally, I have been so scarred by all the managers working at Utd that I don't trust anyone from the go anymore. Just wait and see
Of course its wrong.
Murtough has 2 signing while Woodward did feck all.
Murtough is inheriting an exodus and faces a more difficult time attracting players.
Literally the only similarity is we have a big Barcelona target.
He has improved much from that game. If you notice, his hair is shorter now, adding much aerodynamic to help him run faster.
look, I am an Ajax fan, I am a Dutch-Canadian, but I don't follow them as closely as United because Eredivisie is basically not available, whatsoever, in Canada, but I have a lot of love for Ajax.
I never said Ajax should just hand over any player, or give them cheap, I said a reasonable price. 50 mil euros fora 24 year old Eredivisie CB is way over the top, far more than reasonable. Yes he went for Timber, first target, Timber backed out, he went for a second, Martinez, and wants a third, Antony, knowing that Martinez is the only other one they are actually going for anymore. Do you really think it's unexpected, or too much, for a manager to take two players from his former club? That's pretty much the minimum I would expect, and Ajax had to expect it, I am sure he even had discussions with VDS about players he might potentially take. Maybe those aren't the first players Ajax wanted to sell, but unless Timber changed his mind and now plans to sign an extension, Ajax were actually willing to sell him because next summer he would defintely be sold and only have a year left on his contract because he wasn't planning to sign any extension. Apparently there was also an openness to selling Antony, in fear of repeating the Neres situation, where they didn't sell him at peak value in 2019. And again, 70/80 mil euros for Antony is way over the top for a 22 year old winger from the Eredivisie.
After the last 5 years, and all the success Ten Hag brought, Ajax fans should have a little more tolerance and not turn on him because he wants to bring two players with him. And I don't think at any point United has offered anything that would be considered an inappropriate or insulting offer, they offered 15 mil pounds more than Arsenal's first offer for Martinez.
Never thought of it that way. Interesting to see/hope it doesnt follow the same path all the way.
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