Lisandro Martinez image 6

Lisandro Martinez Argentina flag

2022-23 Performances

View full 2022-23 profile

6.7 Season Average Rating
Appearances
45
Clean sheets
20
Goals
1
Assists
0
Yellow cards
10
Status
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Don't agree with the wage increase...
I mean after all, this is a player who is under 5ft, well below the average player.

His clothes are smaller, he eats less, his house is smaller too.

His salary should reflect that :nervous:
 
The other factor that may be at play is an accounting one.

As we have become very aware of with our discussions around transfer finances, the cost of a purchase is amortised across the years of a contract. So if you buy a player on a five year contract at 100m, that fee shows as 20m per year for five years.

But if after a year you then gave them a new five year contract, the fee would now show as 16m per year instead, because the remaining 80m amount gets spread across the new contract. If the club sees sufficient benefit in that reduction, you can give a player a pay increase and still potentially be happier with how your books look afterwards.

It's why there can sometimes be more value to giving a player a new contract on a wage increase than you think, even if in "real" terms you might be spending more.
 
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sullydnl said:
I would assume they want to get to a point where wages actually reflect status with the team.

As in if you come in, perform and become a key player, you get paid like a key player. Football isn't separate from the general rule that workers are happier and more motivated when they're getting paid what they're worth. As opposed to being a key player in the side but knowing so many lesser players still get paid more and will do for the next several years.

As an approach it would certainly make United more attractive for new signings. "If you come here not only do you get this increase in pay, but based on your performances you could quickly get a raise"
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There's a balance to be struck there though. It would also encourage players renegotiation expectations, and more or less make it impossible to have players on favorable contracts (which you should, as a bit of balance to all the overpaid ones you inevitably always have). It's a slippery slope.

Personally I think we got that about right with how it was handled with Bruno. No one really questioned it, it seemed obvious. If you prove over more than one season that you're delivering well above your pay level, and that you're someone we'll want to build around long-term, then it makes sense. But as good as he's been, Martinez hasn't done that yet.

We also have to consider that there may be external factors in play - such as interest from big, attractive clubs. In other words, to what degree Martinez needs persuading that his future is here.
 
This type of agreements are as old as football, this isn't sthg new for christ sake, more when it comes to confident players that accept lower wages than they want but many times in the contract itself or in words, they agree that if they deliver, they sit again...there are tons of cases like this in the history of the game and it looks like sthg in those lines, we would never know or someday both parts might tell it.
Plus if the numbers said here are correct, their still are way below other players so if he has another great season, don't be surprised that he already arrange sthg similar, it's how it works.

PD: Also in real life, negotiations aren't made between fans treating of farmer leagues other leagues, when they went after him, they went after the player of the year of the champs of that year and he still agreed to a low wage for nowadays standards and the already high wages of his new club in order to make the transfer possible. Clearly, Ajax demanded what they consider was fine to release their best player, yet the player didn't demanded in such terms as a gesture to go the club he desired to go, all parts know this, so it's not a bad move.
This happening or not, won't prevent BTW that his agent or him in the future wants a lot more if he continues in such level and more if other clubs start to try fishing.
 
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justsomebloke said:
Okay. But their United overview seems at least plausible, and they do have a methodical approach to estimating and are open about how they do it. It's the same figures you find everywhere else (although of course that doesn't necessarily mean they ultimately have more than one source).

In any case, even if we dismiss them, where is the basis for assuming Maguire is very highly paid in United's squad?
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He's the worlds most expensive defender. You don't think his wage is going to reflect that?
 
I really wish this guy were available for the FA cup final. I think he would make a big difference to our chances.

Based on that alone I don't mind them giving him a wage increase. Though I don't disagree with those who suggest it would be better to wait until after his second season.
 
It's amazing how people here try to judge something they haven't faced before: having a group of people and deciding their wages. Once you've found a solid player in many aspects as Lisandro, you want to keep him happy. He already knows for sure how many other players earn.

People see that as if it was a problem, look at what City did with Alvarez. It happens everywhere. The problem here is when you pay too much to someone who doesn't deserve it.

In this case I think the decision is correct.
 
Forevergiggs1 said:
He's the worlds most expensive defender. You don't think his wage is going to reflect that?
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It does. But there are nine United players making more. And please don't tell me you're disregarding the widely quoted figure for his wage in favor of a "stands to reason donnit". Or I'll counter with a "bloke down the pub told me".
 
justsomebloke said:
It does. But there are nine United players making more. And please don't tell me you're disregarding the widely quoted figure for his wage in favor of a "stands to reason donnit". Or I'll counter with a "bloke down the pub told me".
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I admit for a United wage it's pretty low down the totem pole if the £190k figure is true but that's more of an indictment of how badly run our club has been more than Harry deserving his wage. Just like 7 players above him.

With Licha there's a completely different vibe about him. Maguires first few seasons with us he was a steady player although he had his obvious limitations. Lichas first season up until his injury has been spectacular with comparisons to Vidic. These type of players need to he looked after and if it means a £50k pay rise to reflect his worth to the club then I have absolutely no problems with it

It's already been mentioned more than once on here that maybe it was written into his contract that his pay structure would be reviewed after the first season. If that was the case would you have a problem with him receiving x amount more?
 
justsomebloke said:
Also, Maguire isn't actually that well-paid for a United player. According to Capology.com, he's the 10th highest earner in the squad - essentially in the middle of the pack.
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Who are the other 9 players more paid than him? I guess Sancho, De Gea, Casemiro and Varane are all in above 300k, with Martial at 250k. Then I think Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and probably Antony are all at around 200k, right?
 
Revan said:
Who are the other 9 players more paid than him? I guess Sancho, De Gea, Casemiro and Varane are all in above 300k, with Martial at 250k. Then I think Maguire, Rashford, Bruno and probably Antony are all at around 200k, right?
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Considering the post you responded to gave you the source it would’ve been quicker to just go there and check it out for yourself (Sabitzer’s up there too at £210k/w)
 
Anustart89 said:
Considering the post you responded to gave you the source it would’ve been quicker to just go there and check it out for yourself (Sabitzer’s up there too at £210k/w)
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Sabitzer at 210k/week? :eek:

Why, just why? He isn’t that good.
 
Jeppers7 said:
Season Ave rating 6.7 :lol:
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The stats would say the voters did him dirty. Having said that they also say that Varane was pretty low, and if you're playing next to someone with low output its probably going to be harder as you are having to cover them

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Jeppers7 said:
Season Ave rating 6.7 :lol:
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People add or subtract a lot of points when rating player performance based on the result, regardless of how the player themselves actually performed. A player will get rated 4.0 if we lose a game 1-0 in the 90th minute, whereas the exact same performance will get rated a 7.0 if we won in the 90th minute.
 
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Fabio Rochemback said:
People add or subtract a lot of points when rating player performance based on the result, regardless of how the player themselves actually performed. A player will get rated 4.0 if we lose a game 1-0 in the 90th minute, whereas the exact same performance will get rated a 7.0 if we won in the 90th minute.
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I get that and we see it a lot that players rarely get over a 6.something by the seasons end. What I would say with Martinez though is that he has produced very few performances that were less than a 7
 
YouOnlyLiveTwice said:
I am assuming his wages are rather low compared to some of the other regular starters on the team. Improving his wages to reflect the fact that he has been brilliant and arguably the player of the year for us seems fair, and shows appreciation for what he is doing.
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But we have overpaid players to varying degrees for years. So the salary he is on is probably good when compared with what other clubs pay centre backs. Upping his salary because he has had a good season is ridiculous because we surely signed him expecting him to be good and his initial salary would reflect that.

It's just a bizarre move of the kind the club has consistently made throughout the glazer years and explains why we have a massive wage bill without having a great squad
 
Jeppers7 said:
Season Ave rating 6.7 :lol:
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Posts in the Bruno thread about how "it would be very unusual for the common consensus of various fans to be completely wrong over a sample size of about 40 games" in defence of why his low performance rating is justified.
Posts in the Martinez thread about how ridiculously low his performance rating is.
Never change @Jeppers7 :lol:
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Posts in the Bruno thread about how "it would be very unusual for the common consensus of various fans to be completely wrong over a sample size of about 40 games" in defence of why his low performance rating is justified.
Posts in the Martinez thread about how ridiculously low his performance rating is.
Never change @Jeppers7 :lol:
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It's almost as if people are bias towards certain players
 
Hope he comes back much stronger next season. He may have a new CB partner if we sign Kim.
 
Gabriel Djemba-Bebe said:
Posts in the Bruno thread about how "it would be very unusual for the common consensus of various fans to be completely wrong over a sample size of about 40 games" in defence of why his low performance rating is justified.
Posts in the Martinez thread about how ridiculously low his performance rating is.
Never change @Jeppers7 :lol:
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If you don’t understand the difference between getting the common consensus from posts for each game, where one differing poster doesn’t affect the outcome ie poor, ave, good, brilliant….and a marking system where one poster alone could make a huge difference to the overall rating then I don’t know how to help you.

Clue…You’re comparing Apples with oranges :wenger:
 
AndySmith1990 said:
We shouldn't, and I don't. I only bother giving ratings when we've been battered and then everyone gets a 1 anyway
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Well, you are the opposite of me. Given time differences, kids' sports, golf, family stuff and work during week I hardly get to watch even 30% of our games for the full 90 minutes.

I consider myself unqualified to fairly rate players without context and continuity. You instead go and revenge rate them :lol:
 
nav_10 said:
Don't agree with the wage increase...
I mean after all, this is a player who is under 5ft, well below the average player.

His clothes are smaller, he eats less, his house is smaller too.

His salary should reflect that :nervous:
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:lol:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Kind of feels like nothing news but when you think back to how bleak things seemed when all the pundits were trying to convince us he’d done his Achilles…
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Some posters were convinced his career was over. With this latest news I’m almost certain he’ll play again.
 
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