Lionel Messi
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He's clearly a Gooner.
What is about you and Cal that renders both of you incapable of understanding that football is not a collection of statistics?
You claimed great teams thrash teams away from home regularly? I asked you to name some and as usual you can't.
Typical IK post. Make 3-4 ridiculous claims in a post backed by one spurious irrelevant stat. When questioned on these claims, ignore the questions and just carry on posting shite.
and Dirk Kuyt is better than Gerrard because he runs around more
....ignoring the statistics per your logic of courseand Dirk Kuyt is better than Gerrard because he runs around more
That is clearly what he said, isn't it?IK is too busy furiously searching for teams that have thrashed teams away from home in the CL regularly.
Typical Smith post...cant read or comprehend ....where have I posted that great teams thrash sides away 'regularly' (my post reads 'an European away game'). I just posted that a quality midfield will help dominate an away game and get a great result at least once in a couple of seasons without needing a striker and a defensive winger to play on the wing to cover their inadequacies (a few seasons ago Barca beat Chelsea, Liverpool and Arsenal away, Inter have thrashed Valencia away, Bayern have had some good away results, Madrid outclassed Roma and they could have easily sat on their first leg lead but chose to attack us in the fat Ronaldo hat trick game. They lost that game but its a far better performance than we have produced in an European away game in recent times). The point is that with a quality midfield, we would have had at least one or two good away wins like any other side but we have to play a very defensive tactic or our midfield may get run over and we have never thrashed any decent side away from home in recent seasons...not even the likes of Sporting or Lille.
You cant answer any of my questions with reasonable arguments/facts but carry on posting irrelevant crappy questions of your own though.
United thrashed Juve in the Deli Alpi 3-0, Giggs master class
We mullered Roma 7-1, the biggest victory margin (now tied) in Champions League history. Almost the same team as now
You don't need to thrash teams. You need to beat them, or simply even just do enough. That'll be why we're European champions then
You're a top class prat Karma, why keep up the pretence? You haven't got a clue what you're on about, and you support another club
We mullered Roma 7-1, the biggest victory margin (now tied) in Champions League history. Almost the same team as now
You don't need to thrash teams. You need to beat them, or simply even just do enough. That'll be why we're European champions then
You're a top class prat Karma, why keep up the pretence? You haven't got a clue what you're on about, and you support another club
who claimed he dominated? I just said he was instrumental. He played a good match, you think he was shit in that game?
You are so bitter and deluded, you hate Barca and then i guess you watched them dominate the match against Almeria and cried...
There you go again, makes idiotic assumption about what I would say and laugh at your own stupid assumption.
Did I ever say he was shit in that game? I merely pointed out that had Messi sat there and did nothing all game, you'd find some way to claim he had a brilliant game and vijay will no doubt claim he dominated the game.
You two are so blinkered about Messi that there is no point discussing any game involving Messi with the two of you.
The only way to discuss Messi has to be statistics, otherwise you two will just go on and on about how he dismantled the opposition, dominated in the big games.
No doubt Ronaldo will have disappeared for 90 minutes if he made the same performance, in fact, he always disappears for 90 minutes despite being our top scorer from the wing and 2nd in our assists table, but no, Ronaldo has been dreadful this season and in fact, he did nothing in any game last season and merely slotted away the penalties and scored tap ins and never created any goals for his team mates.
Since when did i become a 'Ronaldo fan boy'?
Typically putting people into little steriotypical boxes that suit you and help you support an argument. I've never been a Ronaldo fan boy. Im a Manchester United fan boy if that means anything.
Saying Ronaldo has been better than Messi last two seasons and Messi better this one, hardly makes someone a fan boy.
Spot on.....Eto'o has more league goals that Messi, Xavi has more assists in the league than Messi and per fanboi Vijay, 3 of their players are currently among the top 5 forwards in the world yet Messi has been carrying Barca on his own and doesnt have better attacking players scoring from his chances and creating chances for him
Messi is clearly in great form and having a superlative season but Ronaldo has done far more over the last 2 seasons in a tougher league to score in, surrounded by players perhaps not as great as Messi has around him.
I make assumptions just like you do, you assumed Messi "dominated" the game when i never said he did or actually thought he did anyway. Then you assume i would find some way to claim he had a brilliant game even if he didn't which i dont do, why would i this season when most of the time he's been brilliant. If Messi isn't great i'll say he wasn't great, he's set himself the highest standards in the world.
Here you go about statistics again...
Statistically in your eyes Messi added little to the match, he probably wont be credited with the assist although i'm not sure yet. But in Ronaldos game this weekend he was statistically good because he scored a goal. A meaningless converted penalty in a game he was other wise very below par in. Messi didn't score but he certainly had an influence on the game and he was as i said instrumental. He didn't dominate but he was instrumental.
Spot on.....Eto'o has more league goals that Messi, Xavi has more assists in the league than Messi and per fanboi Vijay, 3 of their players are currently among the top 5 forwards in the world yet Messi has been carrying Barca on his own and doesnt have better attacking players scoring from his chances and creating chances for him
Messi is clearly in great form and having a superlative season but Ronaldo has done far more over the last 2 seasons in a tougher league to score in, surrounded by players perhaps not as great as Messi has around him.
Even the stats back Messi up this season though, when Messi is on the park they average 3 goals every 70mins or so, when he isn't it's 1 goal ever 70 mins odds.
That statement proves your bias....the penalty was not meaningless when it was converted against a keeper renown for stopping them. If the defence fecks up afterwards to let the game slip, why would Ronaldo's contribution be devalued ?
Was Messi's performance and goal meaningless when Aguero outclassed him a few weeks ago?
Messi has dismantled top oppositions and dominated strong teams whilst Ronaldo hasn't done anything near that level, especially in big matches or against organized defending. Many here even went down to the extent of throwing youtube links but you're yet to come out of your delusion.
Stats means sod all and you lot lot dont bother watching games, but throw some arguments with some cut and paste stuff dragged from somewhere.
Madrid lost in Rome, Barcelona didn't win at Emirates, their win at Anfield meant they went out, only Chelsea result is spot on. Unless of course you're talking about some games that happened almost a decade ago, but in this case our win at Juventus counts.
Since when did i become a 'Ronaldo fan boy'?
Typically putting people into little steriotypical boxes that suit you and help you support an argument. I've never been a Ronaldo fan boy. Im a Manchester United fan boy if that means anything.
Saying Ronaldo has been better than Messi last two seasons and Messi better this one, hardly makes someone a fan boy.
Nah...Many of you have clearly aint seen Messi play much and argue he some how came out of the dark this season. He was already a tremondous footballer in 2004. Ronaldo winning those awards in the last year are mainly to do with Messi's fitness and United winning all trophies, shouldn't really mean Ronaldo being a better footballer than Messi.
That would be Real Madrid ?
He did feck all against us and was in Arbeloa's pocket against Liverpool. If they draw Chelsea, Cashley will be able to handle him. Ronaldo has match winning peformances against all these sides.
Messi has been dismantling poor defenses in Spain this season alongside two of the best strikers in Europe and the best play making midfielder in the world.
Who are those great European teams of the past that went away to away games and humble oppostions?
I can only think of three or four teams in the last twenty years, Manchester United 97-2003, Milan in the early and mid 90's, Barcelona twice sporadically and Marseille or Ajax for a brief period. Those are the only European teams in the last 20 years or so better than the current United team.
That would be Real Madrid ?
He did feck all against us and was in Arbeloa's pocket against Liverpool. If they draw Chelsea, Cashley will be able to handle him. Ronaldo has match winning peformances against all these sides.
Messi has been dismantling poor defenses in Spain this season alongside two of the best strikers in Europe and the best play making midfielder in the world.
Cashley able to handle Messi
..Even deluded Ronaldo fan boys wouldn't throw a statement to that level.The only winger who goes into Cashleys back pocket is Ronaldo, he's incredibly shite other wise
Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern managed by Hitzfeld, Chelsea tore them apart when he was barely 18. Liverpool match was when he was returning from injury, his team was unsettled and barely match fit, even Zidane and Fat Ronaldo weren't exceptions there.
Ronaldo never dominated against ANY top team barring the CL final for 50 minutes, not clearly dominating but penetrative whenever he had the ball at his feet.
2006/07 He was rubbish against Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Milan bottled down by organzied defending.
07/08 He played it safe in cagey matches and managed to score goals but was never able to take the attack to the opposition barring the CL finals.
The only top premiership opposition he has managed to dominate in England was against Arsenal in the FA cup final.
Can some one dig out Ronaldo's stat this season, minus his pens?
Barca are not great without Messi, proven in the last couple of seasons including the current dropping points, struggling to score whenever he wasn't fit.
When did this happen in the CL knockout stages?Over the last few seasons Barca have featured in 3 ties against Chelsea, 2 against Milan, against Liverpool and against United. Other than getting a shite Spanish Chelsea left back sent off, Messi was wank in all of those games and doesn't even have a single goal against his name.
Other than dominating poor Madrid defences, the only other thing Messi seems to dominate is your fantasies.
Cashley able to handle Messi
The only winger who goes into Cashleys back pocket is Ronaldo, he's incredibly shite other wise
Real Madrid, Juventus, Bayern managed by Hitzfeld, Chelsea tore them apart when he was barely 18. Liverpool match was when he was returning from injury, his team was unsettled and barely match fit, even Zidane and Fat Ronaldo weren't exceptions there.
Ronaldo never dominated against ANY top team barring the CL final for 50 minutes, not clearly dominating but penetrative whenever he had the ball at his feet.
2006/07 He was rubbish against Pool, Chelsea, Arsenal and Milan bottled down by organzied defending.
07/08 He played it safe in cagey matches and managed to score goals but was never able to take the attack to the opposition barring the CL finals.
The only top premiership opposition he has managed to dominate in England was against Arsenal in the FA cup final.
Please name me any big club we've played besides Barca that Ronaldo has failed to score against?
Over the last few seasons Barca have featured in 3 ties against Chelsea, 2 against Milan, against Liverpool and against United. Other than getting a shite Spanish Chelsea left back sent off, Messi was wank in all of those games and doesn't even have a single goal against his name.
Other than dominating poor Madrid defences, the only other thing Messi seems to dominate is your fantasies.
So you reckon matches happenning in the CL knockout stages only count then? Fantasy? So you havent found much luck in Google today.
Barca have played twice against Milan, Messi missed them both out with injuries.
Barca have played twice against Liverpool, Messi featured in the second leg barely match fit? How good was Zidane against Denmark in 02 or Ronaldo against Argie in 03 when they were barely match fit?
Messi has played only Chelsea twice, once away he was the MOM for every one favourite journalist, tore the best defence in the world. In the home leg, he was the best player on the pitch for 25 minutes, before getting subbed due to injury.
All top managers, players and fans except Ronaldo fan boys aint clueless whenever they compare him with Pele and Maradona. He is overhyped alright, it comes easily these days but the only player currently with the ability who can surpass Zidane and Goofy Ronaldo. Ronaldo even for all his goals is not in that league at least so far.
I've always wondered why Instant Karma had even the vaguest interest in "supporting" a club where he slates so many players and constantly criticises the manager.
Turns out he's an embarrassingly loved up Ronaldo fan-boy.
How pathetic.
Turns out he's an embarrassingly loved up Ronaldo fan-boy.
How pathetic.
I said dominating, not scoring goals. His form in the last two seasons was phenomenal not taking anything away from Ronnie though.
IK either dosen't have any clue about what he's talking or on a big wind up.
He says Messi was wank in some matches when the player never played.
He says Messi was wank in some matches when the player never played.
Fair enough, but wouldn't you were assured that someone would score goals as opposed to just 'dominating' games?
Goals guarantee results, domination doesn't.
You are hilarious providing excuses for Messi's wank performance. Messi featured in the second leg barely fit against Liverpool ? Rijkaard seemed to mention that he was was fit for the earlier 2 league games but keeping him as a sub as they had 2 back to back big games against Liverpool and Madrid. He was wank against Liverpool though he was fit and also scored a hatrick against a shite Madrid defence 3 days later. Whatever your excuse, Messi still doesnt have a goal against a top defence in the Champions league and people call Zlatan the big game bottler.
Zidane dominated games, but never found the net regularly yet still the greatest player of his generation. At the end of the day goals are the only stat that matters in football, shouldn't necessarily mean goal scorers are only the best footballers around.
Have you ever tried to figure out the difference between fit and being match fit?
Messi wasnt match fit against Liverpool, they rushed him earlier and played him sparingly as a sub, yet his lack of match fitness was apparent on the pitch.
As I said you don't have a clue on what you're talking about. You claimed Messi was wank in some matches when the player hardly played.
Cal and you lot have hardly seen him play before last season and let your ignorance out on internet.
I can't believe there is nearly 3000 replies in a thread which is not about one of our own players! And it only started in November.
If he is not a gooner, then he is someone who is supporting United because they're winning trophies. He'll swap shirts again if Arsenal start winning.
https://www.redcafe.net/f7/fake-ronaldo-200497/index2.html
Even in my thread for praising Ronaldo's feats Cal ruined it by turning it into a CR7 > everyone ever including Jesus.
The kid's quite possibly the biggest fanboii fecktard ever.
Even in my thread for praising Ronaldo's feats Cal ruined it by turning it into a CR7 > everyone ever including Jesus.
The kid's quite possibly the biggest fanboii fecktard ever.
But this is a United site. He may be a silly Ronaldo fanboy but it's certainly preferable to the Messi fanboys.
Without looking at statistics, you and your sidekick vijay will no doubt claim Messi was brilliant or dominated or instrumental or whatever every game he had ever played or he wasn't match fit.
That Real Madrid game where Ronaldinho got the standing ovation is the best example - Ronaldinho gets a standing ovation, yet you or your sidekick (can't remember which) insists on digging a hole about how Messi was the dominant player, yada yada.
Ronaldo's penalty was hardly meaningless, it put us ahead in the game, the fact Vidic and Evra had a shocker afterwards was down to Ronaldo?
Which are all these top oppositions that Messi dominated? in pre-season friendlies?
Fact is Messi still hasn't any CL goals against any of the top teams.
CL knockout stage shouldn't count, let's just look at how many teams Messi dismantled, dominated, pissed all over in PRESEASON FRIENDLIES...
Somehow Messi is always MoTM when he gets subbed off early, here against Chelsea, and also away at the Bernabeu where those 80,000+ Madrid fans must be clueless, why applaud Dinho when they should bow down to the brilliant of Messi?
All the managers, players & fans who praise Messi are geniuses, all the other ones who praise Ronaldo (Sir Alex included) are clueless wankers who don't know what they are talking about.
So it's nothing against Messi, he's just the ultimate Ronaldo fan boy, if you can't even admit that Ronaldo was better than C Ronaldo you are deluded. Even i would say that Messi has a way to go before being better than The Phenomenon (although he's certainly on his way).
Without looking at statistics, you and your sidekick vijay will no doubt claim Messi was brilliant or dominated or instrumental or whatever every game he had ever played or he wasn't match fit.
That Real Madrid game where Ronaldinho got the standing ovation is the best example - Ronaldinho gets a standing ovation, yet you or your sidekick (can't remember which) insists on digging a hole about how Messi was the dominant player, yada yada.
Ronaldo's penalty was hardly meaningless, it put us ahead in the game, the fact Vidic and Evra had a shocker afterwards was down to Ronaldo?
The penalty had no outcome on the match so it was meaningless in that context. The fact that Ronaldo scored it shows he is good at penalties and has good character. However for the rest of the game i thought he was remarkably average, and putting in two decent balls in 90mins doesn't change my opinion of that.
I say how i see it, i don't really remember going on and on about Messi dominating matches, when he performs well then sure enough i'll say so, if he doesnt perform so well i'll say so, no big deal for me. You are the one justifying every Ronaldo performance, i don't feel the need.
CL knockout stage shouldn't count, let's just look at how many teams Messi dismantled, dominated, pissed all over in PRESEASON FRIENDLIES...
Somehow Messi is always MoTM when he gets subbed off early, here against Chelsea, and also away at the Bernabeu where those 80,000+ Madrid fans must be clueless, why applaud Dinho when they should bow down to the brilliant of Messi?
All the managers, players & fans who praise Messi are geniuses, all the other ones who praise Ronaldo (Sir Alex included) are clueless wankers who don't know what they are talking about.
Messi was what? 18/19? in his first seasons. Did Rooney get played all the time by Moyes at Everton? was Ronaldo playing every minute in his first couple of seasons?
managers tend to bed players, allow them to get used to it and also use the sparingly to protect them. I thought this was fairly common knowledge in football.
As for praise well more respected figures do tend to say Messi is the real deal. I think the people who back Ronaldo as the best tend to be United men or portuguese where as Messi gets backed by most people, not just argies and barca fans, that tells it's own story but you'll ignore it.
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