That's nonsense. Ronaldo at Inter Milan was everything for the team - creatively as well as in terms of goals.
Lionel Messi
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That's nonsense. Ronaldo at Inter Milan was everything for the team - creatively as well as in terms of goals.
Fair enough, i think Messi is better than Ronaldo was. You don't, i can accept that.
Your reasoning has been weak and for the most part, unchallenged.. and you've run riot with it with claims getting more fanciful with each passing week.
When Ronaldo went to Italy it was the strongest and best league on the planet, by far. He was playing against a veritable who's who of defending over there and championing them all, not only that, he was playing through the middle and going straight at the heart of teams, which is much harder to do than playing off a wing.
Although it's not Messi's fault, he is not facing defences who are as good; a league of the same quality, nor 1-on-1 opponents anything close to what Ronaldo had to face in Italy, hence your hyperbolic claims about his performance level are over the top in the extreme.
Let him tear up at least the CL before putting in the claims you have! La Liga is not impressive at this moment in time and Barcelona have no competition in that league. Real Madrid are a joke and have been even last season when they won the league and the defensive names Messi has faced cannot hold a candle to the likes of: Nesta, Ferrara, Maldini, Thuram, Costacurta, Cannavaro etc, etc or anything like the defensive units seen in Italy at the time Ronaldo was there.
Messi is doing well this season, but you should at least wait till he finishes this season and wins somethintg before jumping to conclusions.
I saw that volley last night, there was no defender anywhere near him, it's ridiculous to suggest Ronaldo would have "fallen over for the penalty".
Good post.
And what exactly did Ronaldo win whilst he was at Inter?
Why all of a sudden is La Liga looked down upon as a shit league? So La Liga is shit, Serie A is shit, is the bundisliga shit too? i guess it must be meaning that only players playing in England have a chance of recognition?
Hang on, Liverpool have thrown a lead away they shouldn't have, Chelsea are a shadow of their former selves and Arsenal aren’t even in the top 4. United had a slow start and had barely hit stride yet still are in a rather comfortable position in the Prem.
This belittling of other domestic leagues doesn't really bode with me whilst you make a fine point about Ronaldo at Inter, it was the strongest (although perhaps not at it's very peak, 80's i think for that) domestic league at the time he didn't win much. The UEFA cup but maybe if he hadn't got those really bad injuries he might have inspired them to win more.
La Liga isn't shit, it's just not as good as it used to be, you only have to look at how shit Real Madrid are and they're 6pts clear in 2nd place.
I didn't say anything about win, but if your bias is such that you're going to tell me Ronaldo didn't dominate and devestate what was the best league on the planet, by far, at that time, then this is pointless.
Besides which, in the Inter vs Juve game that was effectively the title decider, Inter were clearly robbed - scandalously so, in fact, which denied Ronaldo his scudetto.
I didn't say La Liga is 'shit' I said it's not very strong at the moment, and it is clearly miles away from its halycon days from 2000-2004. There's no strength or cohesion amongst the title challengers there and the quality of play has taken a massive dip because of that. Barcelona don't even have a title rival - that's pretty much unheard of and it is an indictment of how poor La Liga is this season.. and has been for the last two before this one as well.
You ask me about the strength of leagues across Europe, and I'd say this is not a strong season for any league, truth be told. Inter Milan are top of a dire league that has been decimated by scandal and debt, we're top of an English league where no team is playing great football or can even get their act together in anything like the fashion seen from United in 06/07 or Arsenal/Chelsea and ourselves last season. Ligue 1 is shit and a general procession for Lyon.
For excitement you've got La Liga and Bundesliga, but that is not mutually exclusive with quality where in past seasons you could say it was somewhat synonymous.
At the very least a top dog club this season will have to put the rest of Europe to the sword because domestic competition has not been of a great standard anywhere this term, but at least the Prem' is competitive where La Liga simply isn't. Wouldn't you have loved to see this year's Barcelona thrown into the mixer with the Valencia and Real Madrid sides of the turn of the century? That'd be something worth crowing about.
You're clouding issues with your last paragraph and relatively, Barcelona's squad has much more strength to it than the one Ronaldo was part of at Inter and should be expected to win more as a team because of it.
Good post!
La Liga started off brightly with many teams looking potential challengers but they have slowly fell away but you can't belittle what Barca have done so far. From finishing a mile off the pace last season in 3rd they have totally dominated. Inter Milan are not dominating in Italy despite being top they are stuttering and stumbling and i think Serie A is far from over despite still thinking Inter will take the title.
The Premiership has no outstanding teams so far, Liverpool looked genuine, Chelsea started brightly but neither have sustained. United have barely woken up or performed to the standards they set and realistically had to set due to the nature of the competition.
If Barca playing dominating and in the mannor they are isn't open to some praise i don't know what is.
Ronaldo was brilliant no doubt, Maldini himself said the best he's ever played against was Maradona, then Ronaldo which tells me all i need to know about how good he was.
La Liga started off brightly with many teams looking potential challengers but they have slowly fell away but you can't belittle what Barca have done so far. From finishing a mile off the pace last season in 3rd they have totally dominated. Inter Milan are not dominating in Italy despite being top they are stuttering and stumbling and i think Serie A is far from over despite still thinking Inter will take the title.
The Premiership has no outstanding teams so far, Liverpool looked genuine, Chelsea started brightly but neither have sustained. United have barely woken up or performed to the standards they set and realistically had to set due to the nature of the competition.
If Barca playing dominating and in the mannor they are isn't open to some praise i don't know what is.
Ronaldo was brilliant no doubt, Maldini himself said the best he's ever played against was Maradona, then Ronaldo which tells me all i need to know about how good he was.
Like I said, Real Madrid ran away with La Liga last season, yet no one gave them anywhere as much praise as Barca are getting right now.
Compare last seasons league with 21 games played and compare this seasons.
Then you might have a faint idea why Barcelona are coming in for praise. They already have a better goal difference than "run away" madrid did at the END of last season....
My point to you is that you've got to keep things relative to a degree. La Liga isn't known for its defending at the best of times and this season it's even worse than usual with teams simply going all out against one another attack vs. attack, which obviously favours this Barcelona side and it's not a coincidence that all of their attackers are firing at a ridiculous rate.
You then look at Serie A and what it was known for in the 80's and 90's and it was miserly, defensive football where attackers were afforded few chances per game to stretch their legs and perform and it gives a better sense of perspetive to what the likes of Platini, Maradona, Gullit, Van Basten and Ronaldo achieved there in an attacking sense. It should count for a lot in the assessment of these players, imo.
If Barcelona/Messi transfer their/his Liga form to the CL, then, by all means, praise them to high heaven, but before that, I feel it's incredibly premature given how easy they are finding their own league, which is not a very impressive one in it's own right.
After 21 games last season, Real Madrid had 53pts;
After 21 games this season, Barca have 56pts.
I guess the 3pt difference explains everything...
You run away with the league by building a gap in number of points to the 2nd placed team, NOT by having a big GD...
Well said, I've been saying for a while we should at least wait for the latter stages of the Champs League before jumping to any conclusions.
I forgot Messi hasn't played well against good teams or ever put in good performances in the champions league...
What are you going to do if Barca win the champions league? I think you'll be sick to be honest.
That's because they were average last season, it's just Barcelona were so much worse.
that's blatantly clear to anyone. It's like how we've been this season - nowhere near the level we can reach consistently, but we're still likely to win the league at a canter.
Messi was certainly pretty anonymous against us last season and in 06/07 in 4 games against Liverpool & Chelsea...
I will be sick if Barca win the CL, as that would mean United won't win it.
After 21 games last season, Real Madrid had 53pts;
After 21 games this season, Barca have 56pts.
I guess the 3pt difference explains everything...
You run away with the league by building a gap in number of points to the 2nd placed team, NOT by having a big GD...
So they only got 32 points in the last 17 matches, just atch how many Barcelona get - in style.
Now the praise for Barca is due to the ASSUMPTION that they won't take their foot off their pedal like Madrid like last season.
yesterday, barcelona, without messi where losing against racing de santander
when messi got in, he scored the two goals they needed to win the game
that good messi is
when messi got in, he scored the two goals they needed to win the game
that good messi is
It's fine that you live in a fantasy world where it rains champaign, united always win and everyone outside Old Trafford is a subhuman reptilian that can't kick a football. But please don't pretend everyone else lives there too. Your as bad as the worst RAWK members.
Now the praise for Barca is due to the ASSUMPTION that they won't take their foot off their pedal like Madrid like last season.
Their football's at the level of our back in 06/07, it's a mor than valid assumption.
Aren't you doing the same in saying Henry's worse than Ronaldo, assuming he'll maintain this level?
Or are you basing this on Ronaldo's career up until niow, against Henry's entire career?
Because that'd be even more bizarre.
How's he rated in Argentina, marcos?
as a player that can be the next maradona but who still needs to prove his value wearing the argentinian shirt
Which part of Messi being anonymous against United, Chelsea & Liverpool over 6 games in the last 2 seasons do you disagree with?
He hasn't played against any top Italian team in his career, so cannot give you any stats on that.
The fact is that Barca have got 3 more points over 21 games this season than Real Madrid managed last season.
Teams with a big lead often take their foot off the pedal, it remains to be seen if Guardiola prioritises the CL and rest a lot of players in league games.
Ronaldo has already won more in his club career than Henry, how hard is that to understand?
I can only remember him against United and Chelsea. And don't remember him being anonymous against either but i can't speak for your own eyesight, maybe it's better than mind. Or maybe you are actually blind....
Well, he wasn't totally anonymous, but he didn't score and Barca lost the tie both times against English clubs. (3 times if you add the group stage results).
Basically he's yet to score against English clubs in his career.
Over the last 5 El Clasico, Barca have 1 win, 1 draw and 3 defeats against Real Madrid.
I'm pretty sure they beat chelsea and went on to win the whole thing that year.
Surprisingly this season, the season in question is the win against La Liga. After all we are talking about this season and i don't know what relevance any of this has.
I'll give you one thing Cal? you would make for a good researcher!
No, you're thinking about 05/06 where they beat Chelsea, but as Messi wasn't a regular I thought it wouldn't be fair to include that season.
They drew 2-2 at Nou Camp and lost 1-0 at the Bridge in 06/07 and got knocked out by the Scousers at the first knockout stage.
I was just pointing out that Barca this season (statistically at least) aren't that far ahead of Real Madrid at this stage last season and Messi's record against English clubs leaves a lot of room for improvement. He might do that this season or he might not, we'll see.
Yeah it's all down to Messi this terrible record. But also please do leave out the two games against Cheslea in which a 18/19 year old Messi tore them a new one whilst drawing your conclusions
It remains to be seen indeed, but you can't honestly think Madrid were anywhere near the level Barca have been this season? Either you barely watched Madrid last season, or you're crazy.
Very easy, doesn't make him the better player though, does it?
as you can imagine, we all want him to become the next maradona, and conquer another world cup, so any good news about him is recieved with hope
but as i told you, he still needs to prove his worth with the argentinian shirt
Messi is doing well this season, but you should at least wait till he finishes this season and wins somethintg before jumping to conclusions.
I saw that volley last night, there was no defender anywhere near him, it's ridiculous to suggest Ronaldo would have "fallen over for the penalty".
Yeh, Ronaldo would never fall over with nobody near him...
Messi at 18 or 19 did tear apart the likes of Chelsea, Juventus, Bayern, Real Madrid, Werder to name a few, the best he came up against comparable to the Italian league of '98, if you choose the spread the opposition around. Last season albeit not being match fit he almost took apart the the best defence in Europe even with little or no support from his team mates. If Ronaldinho can do the damage against the Milan few years back, I dont see any reason why Messi with more pace and flair would fluff had he been match fit and played in the match.
Fat Ronaldo at Barcelona was incredible but unlike Messi he never really dominated full games. Spainish defenders were able to keep him quiet predominantly but he did the damage in just 10 or 20 seconds. Another point as a striker he played closer to the penalty box, once he breezed in to the box there wasnt any chance of fouling him whilst Messi got more horrible fouls in his first two seasons as he often picked up the ball from the half way line.
At Inter Milan when he played in a free role behind the striker, he was devastating, but defenders were able to punish him as often he played away from the goal and one full season of kicking around he was never the same player again.
At the moment Messi comes closer to Ronaldo of Inter, this season so far ironically his first full season without injuries his strike rate now is on par with Ronaldo of 96/97 not sure whether he can sustain it for the next four months. One more great season and a good world cup he should surpass Ronaldo.
Yeah it's all down to Messi this terrible record. But also please do leave out the two games against Cheslea in which a 18/19 year old Messi tore them a new one whilst drawing your conclusions
So if you include those 2 Chelsea games, that's another 2 games he's failed to scored against English teams.
Winning 3-2 on agg hardly constitutes "tore them a new one".
The difference there being Barca and Inter both broke the world record to get Goofy Ronaldo and they had to play him every match, and he got burnt out sooner than expected. As for Messi, Barca had the luxury to wrap him under the wool and groom him methodically unleashing him only in big games.
Cannot figure out any problem in Messi's record against English clubs, the only stumbling block being his injuries. He was the best player on the pitch against Chelsea or Manchester United and agaisnt Liverpool it was his first match after injury and was barely match fit. Goals..yes but in terms of dominating an opponent be it English or Welsh he's always in top brass.
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