Lionel Messi

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Wrong..

Dunno how you can categorize the term brilliant defensively, Albeda was purely a defensive midfielder whilst Baraja a box to box player( I am sinned here?) good at defending but more renowned for his late runs in to the box. Benetiz at times stuck to a two man midfield with Aimar operating on either inside right or inside left with Baraja or Albeda in the middle and Vincente on the left. He was always switching between systems and many a time Aimar played in a two man midfield connecting attack between Baraja and Carew.

Valeron played in a three man midfield. At Juventus Lippi stuck to 4-3-1-2 with Zidane playing in the hole behind two strikers, with Davids on the side left and Tacchinardi in the middle if my memory serves right. At Real Madrid, Zidane was starting on the left when they had Cambiasso and Makelele in the middle and then he played in a free role behind the striker after they switched on to 4-2-3-1...I am bored here, read my posts in the previous page.

Veron was sucessful whenever he was played infront of two defensive midfielders 4-2-3-1 by Svens Lazio and 3-3-1-3...by Beilsa's Argentina. For a brief period at United, he had his fair run of success partnering Phil Neville from a deepish central midfield but not for long.

Getting back to this argument, Xavi like all other enganches, needs couple of ball winners to protect his backside whenever he attacks upfront, but all these footballers are worth to have the attack played around them.

I dont remember well enough on the other 3, other than I'm sure I remember Valeron playing in a two against us several times as Diego Tristan was always partnered up front.

But even today Alebelda is playing box to box. He shouldnt be because Valencia really need someone sitting on the edge of their own box, looking after their circus of a backline, but for some reason you'll still see Albelda getting to the edge of the opponents box and shooting - though never actually scoring. He covered Baraja's runs forward because Albelda is a great team player. Baraja's style should be compared to Ballack's - Ballack played deep for Leverkusen too and popped up late in the box to score often. Neither Ballack or Baraja have ever been very good defensively though. They've always needed someone next to them doing a lot of defensive work. Aimar was a south american attacking midfielder. From what I remember they'd play him anywhere they could fit him in, but in most matches playing him as a 2 in midfield would have been asking for trouble defensively.
 
Xavi was pulling the strings from the middle. You call that as expansive passing?

Yes. He was expanding play with his passing well, but wasnt very threatening. Just lots of balls from the middle out to the flank. They looked good but hurt little.
 
I dont remember well enough on the other 3, other than I'm sure I remember Valeron playing in a two against us several times as Diego Tristan was always partnered up front.

Valeron played infront of two defensive midfielders, Duscher and some one else with both Makay and Tristan upfront. He always had a free role behind the forwards picking the ball in his own half and distributing it upfront.

But even today Alebelda is playing box to box. He shouldnt be because Valencia really need someone sitting on the edge of their own box, looking after their circus of a backline, but for some reason you'll still see Albelda getting to the edge of the opponents box and shooting - though never actually scoring. He covered Baraja's runs forward because Albelda is a great team player. Baraja's style should be compared to Ballack's - Ballack played deep for Leverkusen too and popped up late in the box to score often. Neither Ballack or Baraja have ever been very good defensively though. They've always needed someone next to them doing a lot of defensive work. Aimar was a south american attacking midfielder. From what I remember they'd play him anywhere they could fit him in, but in most matches playing him as a 2 in midfield would have been asking for trouble defensively.

Baraja was a much better midfielder than Ballack, more solid defensively and he was as good as Keane in attacking and scored more goals than Keane ever did. Just because he partnered a defensive midfielder in Albeda shouldn't mean he was poor defensively, like whenever Keane was partnering Nicky Butt he always had the licence to move up field and attack compared to partnering Scholes. I can remember some matches Aimar playing the CM when either Baraja or Albeda were INJURED including some CL matches against Roma and Arsenal. Aimar starting a bit deep didnt affect them as they then had the best defensive line Europe.
 
Yes. He was expanding play with his passing well, but wasnt very threatening. Just lots of balls from the middle out to the flank. They looked good but hurt little.

It depends the kind of football you choose to prefer, whether its pushing the ball quickly up front with a string of six or seven passes to gether or playing a probing line and opening up defences. Spain was able to chain down almost all the teams in their own half, playing possesion football and if not for Xavi, I dont think they would've moved the ball that brilliantly.
 
Xavi played too far from goal in almost all involvements. Fabregas came on and played further up the pitch, providing more threat instead of just expansive passing.

You focus on that too much, and you brought it up over the summer as well as an argument against him not being the best centre mid in the world.

You don't have to play further up the pitch to be the best centre mid, it's not their role.
 
You focus on that too much, and you brought it up over the summer as well as an argument against him not being the best centre mid in the world.

You don't have to play further up the pitch to be the best centre mid, it's not their role.

But thats exactly what Xavi is now doing for Barcelona and he's scoring goals. Has he lost anything? Not from the games I've seen.

If I were to play 3 in the middle I'd definately want Xavi in my team. Not so sure about in a 2.
 
But thats exactly what Xavi is now doing for Barcelona and he's scoring goals. Has he lost anything? Not from the games I've seen.

If I were to play 3 in the middle I'd definately want Xavi in my team. Not so sure about in a 2.

So he's added to his game, right. Doesn't mean he wasn't doing enough before then to be called the best midfielder in the world last season. Because he was, by a distance.

Centre mids are there to control the game, he does that better than anybody in world football right now.

Xavi-Carrick would work just as well as Carrick-Scholes, don't you think?

And you never told me who you would say is close to Xavi, did you?
 
Because its hard to compare quite simply. I believe Fabregas would be just as good playing the same role in Barcelona's system.

He's not as good as Xavi is playing for Barcelona, playing in a 2 man midfield at Arsenal though. And I dont think Xavi would be better than Fabregas is, playing Fabregas' role at Arsenal.

Barcelona play a formation and style that gets the most of our your star midfield player. I think Alonso would be brilliant in that role too.

And yes I believe Xavi + Carrick would work as well as Scholes + Carrick works now. But not as well as Scholes (In his prime) + Carrick :p
 
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This maybe long overdue BUT after watching endless hours of this lad, I have come to the conclusion that, he may be the very best thing since a condom. He is simply breathtakingly devastating. Top Top Top Top player. Ibrahimovic, Ronaldo, Stevie Me and you are all other pretenders take note.

This little fella is a genius. Damn it I hate it admitting that an opposition richly deserves to have a BPITW.
 
No doubt about this lad. The finest thing I've seen on a football pitch. The Pele/Maradona argument is one thing. But those of you still trying to argue his status in world football are kidding yourselves. The best now. The best we'll see for quite a while me thinks. Just fecking enjoy it.
 
Comes on on the hour only to score a match winning double.

Primera: 16 (2) - 16 goals, 8 assists
Cup: 5 - 4 goals
CL: 3 (2) - 5 goals, 3 assists

The lad's just taking the piss nowdays.
 
No doubt about this lad. The finest thing I've seen on a football pitch. The Pele/Maradona argument is one thing. But those of you still trying to argue his status in world football are kidding yourselves. The best now. The best we'll see for quite a while me thinks. Just fecking enjoy it.

The Pele/Maradona argument is the only one left. He's already shown a level above anyone else playing the game right now and at 21 many have already said he is better than Maradona was at that age.
 
Comes on on the hour only to score a match winning double.

Primera: 16 (2) - 16 goals, 8 assists
Cup: 5 - 4 goals
CL: 3 (2) - 5 goals, 3 assists

The lad's just taking the piss nowdays.

25 goals and 15 assists :eek:
 
Could Messi's form depress Ronaldo?

Ronaldo will suffer from the comparisions with Messi, particularly if he heads for Real and Barca piss over them. I know Ronaldo is quite confident in his abilities but that guy Messi makes the other world stars look ordinary.
 
Yeah, he has made no assists in the cup, but the achievment is amaizing: Ronaldo's scoring form from last season with more assists.

That just means the Barca strikers are finishing better than Rooney & Tevez did last season.
 
You just have to accept it Cal? Ronaldo never created as many chances last season as Messi.
 
I don't think Messi's form will ever affect Ronaldo in any negative way, if anything it could add some more fire in his belly in a bid to re-take the best player mantle.
 
Is that possible? :wenger:

I guess so, i remember him coming off the bench in the champions league twice, once scoring 2 against Shaktar to win the game and the other a goal against Basil.

Dippers ripper is correct, even with 11 assists it could easily have been double that number, he creates an awful lot. Also assists are fickle. There are times when Messi will run past 2 or 3 or 4 players then lay it off to a guy who in turn kicks it to someone else for a tap in. Just him being on the pitch totally unsettles oppositions.
 
In Ronaldo's defence we may point out that Barca's midfield is more creative than ours. And they have Alves, too, who supports their attacking play big time.
 
I guess so, i remember him coming off the bench in the champions league twice, once scoring 2 against Shaktar to win the game and the other a goal against Basil.

Dippers ripper is correct, even with 11 assists it could easily have been double that number, he creates an awful lot. Also assists are fickle. There are times when Messi will run past 2 or 3 or 4 players then lay it off to a guy who in turn kicks it to someone else for a tap in. Just him being on the pitch totally unsettles oppositions.

Was just going to make that point myself, if Messi hasn't scored or directly assisted it he's probably just taken it past four players before laying it off to someone else.

He's had one average performance all season, the rest have been phenomenal.
 
I guess so, i remember him coming off the bench in the champions league twice, once scoring 2 against Shaktar to win the game and the other a goal against Basil.

Dippers ripper is correct, even with 11 assists it could easily have been double that number, he creates an awful lot. Also assists are fickle. There are times when Messi will run past 2 or 3 or 4 players then lay it off to a guy who in turn kicks it to someone else for a tap in. Just him being on the pitch totally unsettles oppositions.

And that's where the true value lies, there should be a discernable stat for 'forward thrusts initiated, that led to goals.'

It was also something Hleb was fantastic at, yet people got on his case about the 'raw' stats not being huge (or even big).
 
Was just going to make that point myself, if Messi hasn't scored or directly assisted it he's probably just taken it past four players before laying it off to someone else.

He's had one average performance all season, the rest have been phenomenal.

Ronaldo does the same thing time and time again.

Look at the game against Chelsea for example.

Ronaldo runs up to defence, draws in 3 players nice little back heel out to Evra who crosses it in and Rooney finishes it off.

These players have 2 and 3 players marking them all the time. That take enormous pressure off everybody else on the pitch.

I believe that we haven't seen the best of Cristiano yet. Even last year he wasn't perfect. If Ronaldo can combine both last year and 2006 then Ronaldo>Messi :drool:
 
Ronaldo does the same thing time and time again.

Look at the game against Chelsea for example.

Ronaldo runs up to defence, draws in 3 players nice little back heel out to Evra who crosses it in and Rooney finishes it off.

These players have 2 and 3 players marking them all the time. That take enormous pressure off everybody else on the pitch.

I believe that we haven't seen the best of Cristiano yet. Even last year he wasn't perfect. If Ronaldo can combine both last year and 2006 then Ronaldo>Messi :drool:

If Messi can just keep doing what he's doing this season then it'll be Messi>anyone else on the planet for the rest of his career.
 
Ronaldo does the same thing time and time again.

Look at the game against Chelsea for example.

Ronaldo runs up to defence, draws in 3 players nice little back heel out to Evra who crosses it in and Rooney finishes it off.

These players have 2 and 3 players marking them all the time. That take enormous pressure off everybody else on the pitch.

I believe that we haven't seen the best of Cristiano yet. Even last year he wasn't perfect. If Ronaldo can combine both last year and 2006 then Ronaldo>Messi :drool:

Sorry but ... no. Messi is on an entirely different level to even Ronaldo. The lad is the worlds best player, and the only reason he wasn't recognized as this in previous seasons is because of his injury problems. That volley last night (with his right foot and all) was magnificent.
If that was Ronaldo he'd have fallen over for the penalty, but not Lionel, just smacks it in to the top corner.

Unreal player, un-fecking-real.
 
Valeron played infront of two defensive midfielders, Duscher and some one else with both Makay and Tristan upfront. He always had a free role behind the forwards picking the ball in his own half and distributing it upfront.



Baraja was a much better midfielder than Ballack, more solid defensively and he was as good as Keane in attacking and scored more goals than Keane ever did. Just because he partnered a defensive midfielder in Albeda shouldn't mean he was poor defensively, like whenever Keane was partnering Nicky Butt he always had the licence to move up field and attack compared to partnering Scholes. I can remember some matches Aimar playing the CM when either Baraja or Albeda were INJURED including some CL matches against Roma and Arsenal. Aimar starting a bit deep didnt affect them as they then had the best defensive line Europe.


Pretty much on the money. Only thing to point out would be that Irureta usually played one up top - either Makaay or Tristan - with Valeron playing off a main striker. And usually ahead of a midfield of Victor and Fran/Luque on the flanks and Sergio / Duscher in the centre.

Baraja was a classic box-to-box midfielder, probably the best in the world at the time. Aimar usually played in front a midfield four but was known to occasionally partner Albelda/Baraja when Valencia were going for it at home.
 
He is the best player I have ever seen. (I have no right to decide if he's the best, or going to be the best ever, because i haven't seen the true greats like Maradona or Pele)

The only players that come close for me in my lifetime are Fat Ronaldo and Zidane.
 
The thread is denigrated by those posters who feel they have to defend everything United even in the face of overwhelming evidence. Messi is simply the best player in the world. Ronaldo is very good, scores lots of goals, does his job. But Messi has talent that Ronaldo can only dream of. He really is the new Maradona.
 
No doubt, Ronaldo was a phenomenon but quite a different player to Messi. His eyes were always for the goal but Messi is more for the team and i think that is what gives him the edge over even Ronaldo.

:wenger:That might be because Ronaldo was a striker and a number 9.
 
:wenger:That might be because Ronaldo was a striker and a number 9.

Yes but you get great strikers like Van Basten who whilst being a great goal scorer also gave a great deal to the team in terms of play.

Ronaldo blew away oppositions like Messi is doing but the difference is the amount of ways Messi can blow them away compared to Ronaldo.
 
No doubt, Ronaldo was a phenomenon but quite a different player to Messi. His eyes were always for the goal but Messi is more for the team and i think that is what gives him the edge over even Ronaldo.

:wenger:

You've gone so over the top in this thread that you're becoming a cliche, unfortunately.

La Liga is poor this season (as it has been for the last 2) and the season doesn't even get started until the CL starts up again, yet you're literally comparing Messi to the best players who have ever played this game.

It's premature at best and preposterous at worst. Cut it out!
 
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