Lionel Messi

[Brwned]

you should read the rest of the thread before jumping on my back based on a couple of posts made when i pointed out to him what he'd done.

muppet.

Edited in there:

'Oh, and I realise this seems to have turned into a rant, but it's not at you at all just trying to make a point in general. I actually think you're spot on about most things.'

Wasn't jumping on your back at all, but you can't just criticise someone for wrongly accusing you of something and doing the exact same thing yourself two seconds later.

 

[vijay]

Stick to something like cricket or hockey mate, this football stuff is abit over your head. You are embarrassing yourself trying to make it our like you know what the feck you on about.

Its ironic it comes from a gooner who has figured out football only after 2000.

Stick your drivel in some gooner forums.

 

[Count Duckula]

no. and no. and no. and no.

no. i don't dislike Messi. i've always thought he was destined for great things, esp. after watching him in the Youth World Cup. what i don't like is people with a history of hating Ronaldo mouthing off pretending to be objective and making silly arguments about it. yes, you, FV.

no. i don't have a niggling suspicion at the back of my head about Ronaldo. the past two seasons, no one has come close to him. even Kaka in 2006-07. all Kaka did was show up in the CL, but over the course of the season, Ronaldo was better. and no, i don't hate Kaka. see 'no' #1 above.

no. the rest of the world knows about Messi this season. hell, one gets the feeling that Ronaldo was given his awards only grudgingly. after all, it was obvious to anyone and their blind, retarded uncle, that Ronaldo was the best young player at WC06. but he didn't get the award did he? just the other day, Hiddink came out with a bunch of nonsense to make a case against it. no. the rest of the world will jump at the chance to crown Messi, there's no doubt in my mind. he's less hated. hell, they might even add Dani Alves see?

no. Manchester United is Manchester United. we sell papers and always have, not because of Ronaldo, but because we are Manchester United. to claim otherwise is to rank yourself with a bunch of subliterate, trailer-park morons. and only an idiot would claim that we don't have some of teh best players in the world. matter of fact, i'm not sure quite how to respond to that. your 'reasoning' is so far off the mark, it isn't even wrong.

so, i'd suggest you dispense with the faux-Freudian bullshit; it might help you to know that his ideas have been long discredited.

Nice answer, just a shame most of it's rambling, irrelevant nonsense.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Edited in there:

'Oh, and I realise this seems to have turned into a rant, but it's not at you at all just trying to make a point in general. I actually think you're spot on about most things.'

Wasn't jumping on your back at all, but you can't just criticise someone for wrongly accusing you of something and doing the exact same thing yourself two seconds later.

didn't even see this, sorry.

changed my original post to remove the personal attack. leaving it there: now that would be hypocritical of me.

like i've said. my comments were based on what FV'd said over several posts prior to the one i made. he then amended what he'd said with the 'i think Ronaldo is a great player' schtick. i've pointed out what my facts are. i've never once denigrated Messi, in an apparent need to bolster my position. he's one of the players i enjoy watching.

i acknowledge that he is currently the best, but i don't have to denigrate Ronaldo to do that, something which FV has done repeatedly, as i've pointed out using evidence. so i fail to see how i've done something similar.

meh. i want to settle down to watch our game. multitasking since i have to do some work as well.

 

[marcus agrippa]

Nice answer, just a shame most of it's rambling, irrelevant nonsense.

nice answer = irrelevant nonsense?

highlight of wit you are.

 

[vijay]

Not playing down his part but in the big key games ie the semi and the final i don't think he inspired or performed well. He missed a penalty in each which is pretty brutal, infact some would say he bottled them or is a bottler for missing two massive penalties in consecutive rounds.

True though, but missing two penalities alone cannot belittle a player who otherwise had a flawless season. The miss in the final was shite, but it was pure bad luck the manner he blew it against Barca, had he converted that pen, he would've gained more confidence and played a blinder.

In 2006/2007 when he played a great allround game, he did lose his foothold in some matches when carefully marked. Last season he was able to make to difference in cagey matches, with goals even when against organized defending. Once he finds some form and put backs those pieces again he would become more devastating and another Ballon D'or might not be far away.

 

[Brwned]

didn't even see this, sorry.

changed my original post to remove the personal attack. leaving it there: now that would be hypocritical of me.

like i've said. my comments were based on what FV'd said over several posts prior to the one i made. he then amended what he'd said with the 'i think Ronaldo is a great player' schtick. i've pointed out what my facts are. i've never once denigrated Messi, in an apparent need to bolster my position. he's one of the players i enjoy watching.

i acknowledge that he is currently the best, but i don't have to denigrate Ronaldo to do that, something which FV has done repeatedly, as i've pointed out using evidence. so i fail to see how i've done something similar.

meh. i want to settle down to watch our game. multitasking since i have to do some work as well.

FV's far too harsh on Ronaldo, but at the start when he was just casually praising Messi he rarely took a dig at Ronaldo in doing so. After a while it eventually just comes about in a way of proving your point, really.

Fv's said a number of time's that he's a top player, deserved winner of the Ballon D'or and a great player to watch, but that just gets lost in everything because he talks about Messi 10 times as much.

In general whenever two players are being compared almost everyone talks down one player and talks up another to an unfair extent, however small it may be, so I'd be surprised if you never once talked down Messi, which seems to be the gist of your point - that Frank talks Ronaldo down all the time while you don't do the same to Messi, which pretty much takes away any form of hypocrisy?

Well if that is true, and you actually haven't talked down Messi to make a point about Ronaldo, then I'm well off in this case and I apologize.

 

[marcus agrippa]

FV's far too harsh on Ronaldo, but at the start when he was just casually praising Messi he rarely took a dig at Ronaldo in doing so. After a while it eventually just comes about in a way of proving your point, really.

Fv's said a number of time's that he's a top player, deserved winner of the Ballon D'or and a great player to watch, but that just gets lost in everything because he talks about Messi 10 times as much.

In general whenever two players are being compared almost everyone talks down one player and talks up another to an unfair extent, however small it may be, so I'd be surprised if you never once talked down Messi, which seems to be the gist of your point - that Frank talks Ronaldo down all the time while you don't do the same to Messi, which pretty much takes away any form of hypocrisy?

Well if that is true, and you actually haven't talked down Messi to make a point about Ronaldo, then I'm well off in this case and I apologize.

i have talked down Messi. i remember when we were comparing the two last season, i said Messi doesn't give us that aerial threat - the verticality we get from Ronaldo in wide areas. but i also said in the same breath that Messi is more spectacular to watch. meaning, more talented, more a get-you-out-of-your-seat type of player.

i also pointed out that in our semi-final meeting with Ronaldo, Messi seemed to want to do it all himself. admittedly his team was short on confidence and all through the lead-up to that much the Catalan Press had been saying that Messi was their saviour, so he was bound to look to himself to get the business done. but i felt he was too isolated as an attacking threat, and that, combined with a lack of end-product, that was why i didn't think he was better than Ronaldo. i also pointed out that, while Ronaldo had been quiet, he had played more for the team, since we had to be compact.

i've always tried to temper my criticisms. but FV, i feel, went too far when he just dismissed the previous seasons from Ronaldo, both for Portugal (for whom he played better long before he started doing so for us) and for us at the tail end of 2005/06 and almost all of 2006/2007. he also claimed that Ronaldo didn't really contribute that much to our doing the double last season. this of a lad who scored 42 goals, was CL top scorer and European golden boot. even in my most extreme myopic moments, i could never downplay, say, Gerrard like that. and him, i can assure you, i hate.

 

[Wonder Pigeon]

 

[vijay]

In 2003 Zidane won the World player of the year yet even idiots like you would recognize that Henry was far better than him and there were a few other players as well better than him.

Another round of blinkered rambling from the resident idiot.

Henry wasn't anywhere near Zidane in 2003 . Zidane won the La Liga for Real Madrid and if not for Buffons incredible save from his great freekick in the semis they would've been through to the final... in fact from 02-04 he had his best run at Real Madrid.

Henry on his part bottled in the final stages of the premiership especially against Leeds that won us the league, bottled and tactically outclassed against Valencia in the CL and was in the goal scoring run he normally does a striker in the second half of 2003. Normally these kinda prattlings carry sense only amongst gooners that choose not to look beyond their little club.

 

[Cal?]

Another round of blinkered rambling from the resident idiot.

Henry wasn't anywhere near Zidane in 2003 . Zidane won the La Liga for Real Madrid and if not for Buffons incredible save from his great freekick in the semis they would've been through to the final... in fact from 02-04 he had his best run at Real Madrid.

Henry on his part bottled in the final stages of the premiership especially against Leeds that won us the league, bottled against Valencia in the CL and was in the goal scoring run he normally does a striker in the first half of 2003. Normally these kinda prattlings carry sense only amongst gooners that choose not to look beyond their little club.

Henry wasn't even the best player in the Premiership in 2003.

Van Nistelrooy was...

 

[Gio]

You bet he won't retain his awards as we won't retain the CL or you bet Messi will win those awards even if United win the CL?

You predicted Ronaldo will retain the World Player of the Year Award if United win the CL. I'm saying that's highly unlikely given that Ron's some distance away from being United's player of the season never mind the World's.

 

[Cal?]

You predicted Ronaldo will retain the World Player of the Year Award if United win the CL. I'm saying that's highly unlikely given that Ron's some distance away from being United's player of the season never mind the World's.

Fair enough... we'll see... Ronaldo just scored...

 

[kouroux]

So I was right, your little theory only applies to Messi-Ronaldo comparisons, not anywhere else.

Glad we've cleared that up.

Yeah fo sho' you were right .fecking idiot

 

[Brwned]

Fair enough... we'll see... Ronaldo just scored...

He hasn't even been as good as Park this season for christ's sake!

Berbatov has more chance of winning it ahead of him, seeing as he's already our top scorer in Europe and he did well for Spurs in the Uefa Cup as well.

And he's scored plenty for Bulgaria.

Wouldn't surprise me if his game suits the pace of Europe more at all, and he's a heavy favourite to be our top scorer in the Champions League this season.

 

[vijay]

Our boy has scored again.

He's back!

 

[Erics_Collar]

[scouser] Its on! [/scouser]

 

[Cal?]

Yeah fo sho' you were right .fecking idiot

You were the one who came up with that ludicrous theory...

 

[kouroux]

You're the one who kept calling it a theory,you're the one who wanted me to generalize it.You're deluding yourself man

 

[JazzG]

Its ironic it comes from a gooner who has figured out football only after 2000.

Stick your drivel in some gooner forums.

hehe if you say so mate. Been watching since the early Nineties actually, since the George Graham days.

Henry wasn't even the best player in the Premiership in 2003.

Van Nistelrooy was...

Unless I'm mistaken RvN scored one more goal than Henry that season and Henry set up around 20 more so Premier league wise I'm not sure how RvN was the better player? In the 03-04 season (around half of that season counts towards the awards) Henry was head and shoulders above RvN.

Another round of blinkered rambling from the resident idiot.

Henry wasn't anywhere near Zidane in 2003 . Zidane won the La Liga for Real Madrid and if not for Buffons incredible save from his great freekick in the semis they would've been through to the final... in fact from 02-04 he had his best run at Real Madrid.

Henry on his part bottled in the final stages of the premiership especially against Leeds that won us the league, bottled and tactically outclassed against Valencia in the CL and was in the goal scoring run he normally does a striker in the second half of 2003. Normally these kinda prattlings carry sense only amongst gooners that choose not to look beyond their little club.

Complete and utter nonsense and yet again more shit coming from you.

Did you even watch the Juve vs R.Madrid match? After being beat at the Bernabau Nedved and co ran them ragged in that match. Figo missed a penalty that would of made the tie level but apart from that it was one way traffic for the most of the match. Zidane grabbed a consolidation goal in the 90th minute to make it 4-2 on aggregate (remember him controlling it and hitting a lovely left foot shot past Buffon) but apart from that Juve dominated them. I'm not quite sure what freekick you are talking about, I don't recall that happening but it has been a while so I can't remember every little detail.

How did you come to the conclusion that Zidane was great that season? Watch a few highlight compilations on youtube? Henry, Nedved and Sheva were all easily better than him that year. Even RvN was better than him as well. To say Henry wasn't even near Zidane just further highlights your complete lack of knowledge, are you sure you been watching football since the Eighties? In the Ballon d'Or award Zidane was put down in 5th place behind Nedved, Henry, Sheva and Maldini. He won that World player of the year award on reputation alone because he certainly wasn't the player in the world that year. For your information the Ballon d'Or award is voted by journalists around Europe unlike the World player of the year award where I believe is voted by International coaches and captains, most people know the Ballon d'Or holds much more credibility especially when you look at some of the erratic voting in the FIFA awards. Some odd choices put down in years gone by certain countries.

Many R.Madrid fans had Makelele as their best player that season, he was immense for them and did a fantastic job defensively and many put their CL exit at the hands of Juve down to him not being available. No conincidence they were a pale shadow the following season despite the addition of Beckham but they lost their key man. Zidane himself was quoted as saying "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?". He was the engine of that team and what held them together defensively and it took them quite a few years to recover defensively after that loss.

 

[vijay]

Complete and utter nonsense and yet again more shit coming from you.

Did you even watch the Juve vs R.Madrid match? After being beat at the Bernabau Nedved and co ran them ragged in that match. Figo missed a penalty that would of made the tie level but apart from that it was one way traffic for the most of the match. Zidane grabbed a consolidation goal in the 90th minute to make it 4-2 on aggregate (remember him controlling it and hitting a lovely left foot shot past Buffon) but apart from that Juve dominated them. I'm not quite sure what freekick you are talking about, I don't recall that happening but it has been a while so I can't remember every little detail.

How did you come to the conclusion that Zidane was great that season? Watch a few highlight compilations on youtube? Henry, Nedved and Sheva were all easily better than him that year. Even RvN was better than him as well. To say Henry wasn't even near Zidane just further highlights your complete lack of knowledge, are you sure you been watching football since the Eighties? In the Ballon d'Or award Zidane was put down in 5th place behind Nedved, Henry, Sheva and Maldini. He won that World player of the year award on reputation alone because he certainly wasn't the player in the world that year. For your information the Ballon d'Or award is voted by journalists around Europe unlike the World player of the year award where I believe is voted by International coaches and captains, most people know the Ballon d'Or holds much more credibility especially when you look at some of the erratic voting in the FIFA awards. Some odd choices put down in years gone by certain countries.

Many R.Madrid fans had Makelele as their best player that season, he was immense for them and did a fantastic job defensively and many put their CL exit at the hands of Juve down to him not being available. No conincidence they were a pale shadow the following season despite the addition of Beckham but they lost their key man. Zidane himself was quoted as saying "Why put another layer of gold paint on the Bentley when you are losing the entire engine?". He was the engine of that team and what held them together defensively and it took them quite a few years to recover defensively after that loss.

As I told earlier either you know feck all about what you are talking or writing your nonsense based on few highlights you normally see .... like you normally spout your bullshite out of one line editorials or some rubbish cut and paste quote dragged out of some creepy website.

Juventus - Real Madrid

Juventus won the match but it was nothing like Nedved running them ragged, the two oppurtunistic goals he scored exploiting the pace of Hierro. When the second goal was scored Hierro was caught some where in the midfield, and Cambiasso had to run all the way back from the midfield to defend, as Nedved was unmarked, latched on to a through ball and made the most out of it. For the third goal, Heirro was once again napping when Nedved slammed the winner, any other decent defender would've atleast made an attempt to cut it down, Heirro hardly made any attempt and got sacked by the end of that season.

Still Real Madrid missed out the finals, simply because Figo missed a crucial penalty and Buffon pulling out an incredible save from Zidane's freekick, else they would've been easily been through by away goals, in fact Real Madrid had more possession and also created more chances in the match.

Admit I didn't watch much of Serie A that season but cannot figure out the hype about Nedved and Juventus being outstanding in the CL . Juventus were very lucky even to reach the quarter finals they were thrashed from pillar to post not only by Real Madrid, United or Deportivo but even Newcastle pipped them in SJP and ran them close in Turin and they barely scrapped to a win against Barcelona in the quarters. Nedved for the start wasnt even the best player in the CL and was mediocre in most of the matches and was hardly missed in the finals. The best players in the CL that season were Shevchenko, Rui Costa, Pirlo, Veron, Ruud, Raul and Zidane.

Maybe Juventus retaining Serie A and Nedved delivering in that one big match earned him a Ballon Dor' but interms of their league form however good he was in the Serie A cannot figure out how he can be better than the greatest footballer of his generation playing some great football at Real. Madrid for instance were only outclassed only once in the CL when they played their strongest team, that was against Milan at San Siro. Even when it was a 1-0 win they were tactically overrun.

As for your famous cut and paste ENLIGHTENING point about Makelele, he was the only footballer in the Real Madrid squad who had some DNA to defend and still Madrid lost some matches and struggled earlier in that season whenever Makelele was partnered with an attacking player like Cambiasso with Zidane playing on the left. It was only after the debut of Fat Ronaldo, DelBosque switched on to 4-2-3-1 with a defensive Conceicao partnering Makelele their midfield, their defending became more consistent, not because of Makelele alone. Incidentally they lost all those matches whenever they never fielded those two together including their second leg against United or in the second semifinal against Juventus - ironically Makelele played along with Guti and Cambiasson in those matches they lost but was partnering a defensive Conceicao when they won the first legs - a pattern that was prevelant through out their season. Makelele provided the solidity but it wasnt anything like him being the best player at Real Madrid, as all their attacking players were formidable throught that season. Perez replaced Makelele with Beckham and it was no brainer they would suffer sooner than later.

United would've won sod all last season had there been a clown like Barthez or Carrol in the goal instead of Van Der Saar but it shouldn't imply Van Der Saar being undisputably our best player last season. This internet Makelele theory is similar to that, a players like Gattuso and Baraja outshone him whenever they faced off each other.

For Real Madrid in the same season Raul playing from the midfield, scored nearly 20 goals and almost the same number of assists and Fat Ronaldo was their top scorer still Zidane was a cut above them, running their midfield setting high standards in every other match and even their own fans voted him as their best player. Any one with a bit of commonsense and in reality have watched Real Madrid that season cannot find it hard to figure that out.

 

[vijay]

2004 (or may be 2005) I would say that French man deserved the Ballon D'or ahead of Sheva, shame he did not win it. It was also a shame he wasn't even half good as Baros in Euro 2004, no shocker but a half decent tournament there would've saved his plight to some extent.

Getting back to this Henry debate, cannot preceive from where these goon muppets got the little idea that Henry was better than Zidane in 2003 or Makelele being the best Real Madrid player as both these shite usually feed off each other and works together as a tango.

Even a flea brained idiot who had watched Real Madrid with Makelele can figure out he was just a silent customer, did some great water carrying work, yet all he did was winning balls and laying simple 6 yard passes to their attacking players basically playing like a sweeper before the defence. His efforts got barely noticed on the pitch as he always played well inside their halfway line and it was only Real Madrid's great attacking play with their passing and movement a treat to watch.

Real Madrid without Makelele continued playing breathtaking attacking football in the first half of 2003, especially both Zidane and Figo in top notch before they started falling apart by Feb. This muppet theory that little Henry of 2003 was better than the greatest footballer of his generation, also in some great form, should go up there with the worst of Scouse delusions...

Kuyt > Rooney

 

[Brwned]

Vijay you talk so much about the past rather than you do about football nowadays that I wonder whether you actually watch football any more.

Joke.

 

[vijay]

Vijay you talk so much about the past rather than you do about football nowadays that I wonder whether you actually watch football any more.

Joke.

United forum has become bit ridiculous these days its hard find some sensible debate there.

 

[Brwned]

United forum has become bit ridiculous these days its hard find some sensible debate there.

Laughing at the muppets overreactions > sensible debate.

I think it's hilarious every time it happens because the team is filled with so much quality you know they're going to end up looking like idiots somewhere along the line.

Seriously though, is it really that much worse than a couple of years ago? There's still the odd bit of sensible debate if you look hard enough.

 

[vijay]

Laughing at the muppets overreactions > sensible debate.

I think it's hilarious every time it happens because the team is filled with so much quality you know they're going to end up looking like idiots somewhere along the line.

Seriously though, is it really that much worse than a couple of years ago? There's still the odd bit of sensible debate if you look hard enough.

I really miss some old timers like RUnited, Dans, devilish of the old, AEBM when he used to start less spastic threads, Amir, Julian Denny Plech and others, even Weaste and ukbob hardly post there these days.

Now a days its all about either starting a thread from a cut and paste argument or some talk about weird tactical systems that I am unable to grasp.

 

[Brwned]

I really miss some old timers like RUnited, Dans, devilish of the old, AEBM when he used to start less spastic threads, Amir, Julian Denny Plech and others, even Weaste and ukbob hardly post there these days.

Now a days its all about either starting a thread from a cut and paste argument or some talk about weird tactical systems that I am unable to grasp.

Devilish of the old as in to laugh at him, or did he actually talk sense back then? I know Plech and ukbob used to be top posters but that's about it.

Transfer muppetry, tactics and fanboyism seems to be the main topics these days.

 

[vijay]

Devilish of the old as in to laugh at him, or did he actually talk sense back then?

Devilish used to start some weird threads and it all ended up as a great debate.

After he got stoned twice he's bit reluctant to start threads.

Even Transfer forum used to be lively with more random names but less muppetry.

 

[Dans]

I really miss some old timers like RUnited, Dans, devilish of the old, AEBM when he used to start less spastic threads, Amir, Julian Denny Plech and others, even Weaste and ukbob hardly post there these days.

Now a days its all about either starting a thread from a cut and paste argument or some talk about weird tactical systems that I am unable to grasp.

If only you hadn't included RUnited and Devilish in your list...........

 

[Cal?]

Unless I'm mistaken RvN scored one more goal than Henry that season and Henry set up around 20 more so Premier league wise I'm not sure how RvN was the better player? In the 03-04 season (around half of that season counts towards the awards) Henry was head and shoulders above RvN.

Unless I'm mistaken, you were one of those who said Ronaldo's 42 goals should not be used as the only guide to the best player in the world...

Like it or not, winning the more important trophies is an important factor.

As I have previously said, personally I think Shevchenko should have won it in 2003.

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Henry wasn't even the best player in the Premiership in 2003.

Van Nistelrooy was...

And it was a travesty.

24 goals 23 assists.

to:

25 goals 2 assists.

You tell me which was which, dullard. Now if he'd won the player of the CL, which I'm assuming he did, then fair play. But clearly he wasn't the better in the PL that season.

 

[Red Pavan]

From Messi v Ronaldo

To RVN v Henry

Nice

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Well what can you do eh? You either fight the tide of shit or you get washed away by it.

I just started this thread to ask if people think we could be witnessing one of the all-time greats, someone who has the potential to become the best player ever. Or at least force himself into being held in the same esteem as the all-time greats in the peoples minds.

 

[gaffs]

Best player in the world right now.

 

[Merman]

From Messi v Ronaldo

To RVN v Henry

Nice

Alright, lets change the topic then. Bergkamp > Henry

 

[Cal?]

And it was a travesty.

24 goals 23 assists.

to:

25 goals 2 assists.

You tell me which was which, dullard. Now if he'd won the player of the CL, which I'm assuming he did, then fair play. But clearly he wasn't the better in the PL that season.

Hello, RvN won the Premiership...

 

[cesc's_mullet]

Hello, RvN won the Premiership...

And that makes him the better player for the year?

So by that idiot logic O'shea would've ranked higher than, say, Fabregas in the Player of the Year count last season.

Give up while you're well behind.

 

[vijay]

And it was a travesty.

24 goals 23 assists.

to:

25 goals 2 assists.

You tell me which was which, dullard. Now if he'd won the player of the CL, which I'm assuming he did, then fair play. But clearly he wasn't the better in the PL that season.

You recent fans all should stick these cut and paste stats some where in your backside. Ruud was better than Henry in the 2002-2003 easily and finished with 44 goals...I am not getting in to the argument whether he was really a better footballer than Henry here.

Henry started the 02/03 season brilliantly but Ruud grew stronger as the season progressed and finished with a better goal haul - he found his form against Basle after the disaster against City and never looked back, whilst Henrys form became shite as the CL progressed and finally blew the fuse against leeds. .Any one with a bit of commonsense who had followed football in 02/03 can tell you that.

 

[JazzG]

As I told earlier either you know feck all about what you are talking or writing your nonsense based on few highlights you normally see .... like you normally spout your bullshite out of one line editorials or some rubbish cut and paste quote dragged out of some creepy website

Well that is a load of rubbish again. Every goal conceded can be put down to defensive errors, ironic you talk about other copying and pasting. Is that your best argument you can come up with to put others down with?

Doing a quick google reveals this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2003/may/15/championsleague.sport
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/champions_league/3024733.stm

Also look what I found

Juve v Real Madrid - RedCafe.net - If you look carefully there you might find a quote from some guy named Vijay who called Makelele their most important player in midfield. Funny how opinions change down the years to suit your argument.

So three links with journalists and football fans alike saying Juve were dominant on the day.

My Makelele comments are backed by the players being upset when he left and their defensive play falling apart soon after he went. He came to Chelsea and played most games under and Ranieri and I even recall Mourinho naming him his best player of the season. No one player can hold a defence together but one player can be the difference between you being quite solid and regularly leaking goals. When Rio got banned for that drugs test incident your defence started to leak a lot more goals at the back. Last season we were ok defensively with Flamini but now he has left most of the same people in the back 5 but they look a shambles now. So one player can make a huge difference.

I haven't got much time to respond to the rest so I'll do that another time, got a few more important things to do than argue on the internet about completely insignificant things like this

 

[vijay]

Well that is a load of rubbish again. Every goal conceded can be put down to defensive errors, ironic you talk about other copying and pasting. Is that your best argument you can come up with to put others down with?

Doing a quick google reveals this

http://www.guardian.co.uk/football/2003/may/15/championsleague.sport
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/champions_league/3024733.stm

Also look what I found

Juve v Real Madrid - RedCafe.net - If you look carefully there you might find a quote from some guy named Vijay who called Makelele their most important player in midfield. Funny how opinions change down the years to suit your argument.

So three links with journalists and football fans alike saying Juve were dominant on the day.

My Makelele comments are backed by the players being upset when he left and their defensive play falling apart soon after he went. He came to Chelsea and played most games under and Ranieri and I even recall Mourinho naming him his best player of the season. No one player can hold a defence together but one player can be the difference between you being quite solid and regularly leaking goals. When Rio got banned for that drugs test incident your defence started to leak a lot more goals at the back. Last season we were ok defensively with Flamini but now he has left most of the same people in the back 5 but they look a shambles now. So one player can make a huge difference.

I haven't got much time to respond to the rest so I'll do that another time, got a few more important things to do than argue on the internet about completely insignificant things like this

Load of rubbish.

Then what can be said about the drivel you've spewed in the last couple of pages

No body in this thread or anywhere ever claimed Makelele was shite or not influential. The post you've tried to quote, simply reflects the opinon that was made two posts above....Help yourself..two defensive players in the middle...does it ring any bells?

https://www.redcafe.net/241738-post115.html

Three Journalists

Your little 2003-Henry argument has gone so pathetic, starting from a Google search you've finally landed in cafe threads.

As for your new thoughts about Makelele, he played in a different role at Real Madrid, compared to the roles he played at Celta Vigo (remember the Spurs match) and Chelsea both 4-3-3 where he was the fulcrum of their midfields, every attack went through him whilst at Real Madrid he was an out and out water carrier, barely crossing the half way line. Oh!...those concepts are clearly out of your reach.

Your started ENLIGHTENTING the world that Makelele was the best player at Real Madrid which was utter plonk, he was always in shade of their attacking players and no one noticed the good job he did including their president..Its evident you're continuing to talk out of your backside about things you have neither watched or clearly unaware with the regular cut and paste stuff.

Dont try responding again with another google search...So far you've embarasssed yourself completely.