Lionel Messi

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DesiBD said:
http://messivsronaldo.net/calendar-year.php

He's scored 45 goals in 2014 while Ronaldo is at 50 goals.
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Nice. For a player who's apparently lost his pace, goalscoring instict and hunger for the game, he's sure as hell not doing half bad is he?

About time people realised he's not declined, Barcelona have as a team. Non existent midfield, poor defensively, one man attack.

Barcelona - 31 goals in all competitions. Messi's contribution 11 goals and 9 assists. 20 of the 31 goals have gone through him, and that excludes the chances he's created and the goals he's played a huge part in during the build up.
 
I don't understand the logic of Barca coaches (atleast Tata did much better with regards to changing the formation). Why do they think that every game has to be 4-3-3? Barca don't have players now to play 4-3-3. Once their midfield was the strength, now this is a liability. Messi/Neymar are creating all chances, the midfield is simply being worthless. Midfield + Alves is enough to lose matches, and that's exactly been happening. Enrique is a pure noob in terms of tactics, he's just lucky that the we have some exceptionally talented players to mask his tactical ineptitude. But that won't last for long.

From within my limited footballing knowledge, the fix for this issues isn't very tough.

First, Alves has to dropped. He shouldn't be on the bench even. All he does is pump the ball aimlessly. 13/77, that's his crossing success in league. Most of all, when you have tiny guys like Messi/Neymar in penalty box, why would you cross?? He goes up the field, doesn't remember that he's supposed to defend. And as such, Rakitic or another guy has to cover for him. You end up losing the creativity of a midfield player if he's burdened to cover for a RB. And this makes playing Xavi even more difficult as he simply doesn't have the legs anymore. Even Ajax were cutting through him easily every time in the 1st half. Marcelo literally walked past him every time.

4-3-3 has to be forgotten, maybe use it for easier games at home. I would play a double-pivot. You need protection when playing against elite of Europe. Busquets isn't a traditional DM. He's good on the ball, and keeps possession wonderfully, but he's slow and not exactly a proper cover for the defense. Masche has to play in his proper position of CDM. He's literally the best guy for this role, a perfect destroyer. I don't know if Lucho missed his performance in the WC.

……… Montoya … Mathieu… Bartra………
Pedro … Rakitic… Masherano … Alba
…………….Messi …. Neymar……………….
…………………..Suarez…………………………

or

… Montoya … Mathieu… Bartra.. Alba...
..… Busquets… Masherano.....
....Rakitic……….Messi …. Neymar……….
...…………………..Suarez…………………………

Playing Pedro instead of Alves is much better as he can run and press better than most Barca players, and he has amazing chemistry with Messi. And playing Montoya would mean that defensively the team will be better.

Iniesta doesn't have a starting place as this time, he needs to improve. Same goes for Pique.
 
He HAS regressed though. I don't care what anyone says, he's definitely slower, his finishing has been very slack. I don't doubt a huge part of his game change is the fact he's carrying his team more than ever now, but he has definitely lost a bit of spark.

With regards to his team in general, they need a huge overhaul, which they cant even do now haha. Alves i downright loathe at the minute, just staggers up the pitch leaving gaping holes, he's a crap dribbler but obviously thinks hes Maradona given how often he tries it, and his crossing is hopeless 9 times out of 10.

I'm glad to see Pique suffering a bit too, his heads been so far up his own arse for the past few years it's not even funny.
 
Snake Plissken said:
He HAS regressed though. I don't care what anyone says, he's definitely slower, his finishing has been very slack. I don't doubt a huge part of his game change is the fact he's carrying his team more than ever now, but he has definitely lost a bit of spark.

With regards to his team in general, they need a huge overhaul, which they cant even do now haha. Alves i downright loathe at the minute, just staggers up the pitch leaving gaping holes, he's a crap dribbler but obviously thinks hes Maradona given how often he tries it, and his crossing is hopeless 9 times out of 10.

I'm glad to see Pique suffering a bit too, his heads been so far up his own arse for the past few years it's not even funny.
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No he isn't. This is a complete myth born out of him being such a lazy git over the last 18 months. When he needs to shift he can, in fact, look at the last gif on the previous page. The way some of you go on you'd think he used to be as fast as Usain Bolt.

Barca have regressed all over the pitch, so it's natural Messi's influence is going to take a hit too. They're slower going forward, they're deviating away from passing it to Messi at every opportunity and they don't have the quality in midfield anymore to retain the ball as much as they used to.

Very naive to even suggest Messi could retain his sort of levels from two years ago in a side which are struggling this much. Defences have also wised up to Barcelona's style of play. Re-watch the Inter match from back in 2010, then watch Messi now. You'll see absoloutely no difference.
 
TheShedEnd said:
No he isn't. This is a complete myth born out of him being such a lazy git over the last 18 months. When he needs to shift he can, in fact, look at the last gif on the previous page. The way some of you go on you'd think he used to be as fast as Usain Bolt.

Barca have regressed all over the pitch, so it's natural Messi's influence is going to take a hit too. They're slower going forward, they're deviating away from passing it to Messi at every opportunity and they don't have the quality in midfield anymore to retain the ball as much as they used to.

Very naive to even suggest Messi could retain his sort of levels from two years ago in a side which are struggling this much. Defences have also wised up to Barcelona's style of play. Re-watch the Inter match from back in 2010, then watch Messi now. You'll see absoloutely no difference.
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I must be imagining things then. Think one big realisation recently was in that clasico when he shifted the ball past Marcelo, then Marcelo caught him up and got the foot in to disposes him, never used to happen, used to skin Marcelo comfortably, but that loss of acceleration see's him caught up a lot more frequently.

No-one's going to convince me he hasn't lost a yard of pace when I can blatantly see it with my own two eyes.
 
He has got slower. Not by much, he is still very quick - but that lightening pace he had at 19 - 25 has definitely gone down a notch.
 
Adam-Utd said:
He has got slower. Not by much, he is still very quick - but that lightening pace he had at 19 - 25 has definitely gone down a notch.
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It was the acceleration not the pace. He was never ultimately that quick (remember Kaka waltzing away from him for that goal at the Emirates) but his movement from a standing start, or from just jogging was incredible. As you say though, he's just not got that anymore.
 
matherto said:
It was the acceleration not the pace. He was never ultimately that quick (remember Kaka waltzing away from him for that goal at the Emirates) but his movement from a standing start, or from just jogging was incredible. As you say though, he's just not got that anymore.
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No way. He may not be at the very top when it comes to pace, but still on (the middle/low-end of) the top IMO. That Kaká instance is a poor example as Messi had been on the pitch for 89 minutes by that point and Kaká only 30 mins.
 
He's got a point though, he's always been quick but he's never been one of the really top speed merchants, it was always about that burst of acceleration from a standing start, something few players have.
 
Snake Plissken said:
He's got a point though, he's always been quick but he's never been one of the really top speed merchants, it was always about that burst of acceleration from a standing start, something few players have.
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You've literally rephrased what I said in the post above. I know all about Messi's acceleration, was just reacting to the phrasing "never ultimately that quick" which makes it sound like his top speed is/was average.
 
Skorenzy said:
You've literally rephrased what I said in the post above. I know all about Messi's acceleration, was just reacting to the phrasing "never ultimately that quick" which makes it sound like his top speed is/was average.
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I agree with what you said. He was a lot quicker than you average player, I mean his top speed was lightning quick. He just wasn't in that top bracket with top speeds of the likes of those reached by Ronaldo, Robben etc.
 
haha ridiculous numbers

he should be getting to his peak years now, so well see what the feck is he going to do next... the big ronaldinho? or keep going amassing numbers?
 
How the feck did he actually score 91 goals in the calendar year? Even when everyone is saying Ronaldo is having an amazing goal-streak, he's still nowhere near that number, or am I wrong?
 
The only thing more inevitable than the weekly injury to a united defender is a thread warping into a Messi vs Ronaldo chat whenever one of them is mentioned.
 
CLARiiON said:
How the feck did he actually score 91 goals in the calendar year? Even when everyone is saying Ronaldo is having an amazing goal-streak, he's still nowhere near that number, or am I wrong?
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Where did you get 91 in a calendar year from?
 
CLARiiON said:
How the feck did he actually score 91 goals in the calendar year? Even when everyone is saying Ronaldo is having an amazing goal-streak, he's still nowhere near that number, or am I wrong?
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I think he scored 56 goals in La Liga itself. So probably over 60 just counting domestic competitions. CL and Inernationals would be around 30 odd.
 
Here's an interesting infographic about that period, also comparison with Ronaldo's 63..

91_gols_messi_engv02.2vow6.jpg


compareoaon7.jpg


Another interesting fact during that season was the form of RvP. RvP got 36 points, very close to Messi's 38 points that season in the league.
 
Had a bad game today. He looks frustrated due to the non-existent midfield. Had to drop deep a lot to get the ball. Barca forums are literally up in arms again Lucho. He has lost any support he might had initially. It won't take long to things to boil over. Bad signs for the team. That's not where he should be playing.

You don't want him playing so deep.

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The question which has been in my head for sometime now. Who is a better coach? Enrique or Moyes?
 
I'd love to see him in a counter attacking side like Real Madrid. He'd be absoloutely devastating. He's 27 years old now, should be in the prime years of his career, and right now that's looking like it'll be wasted with Barcelona with their incompetence in appointing a qualified manager and inability to target the right players to rebuild the squad.
 
Skorenzy said:
No way. He may not be at the very top when it comes to pace, but still on (the middle/low-end of) the top IMO. That Kaká instance is a poor example as Messi had been on the pitch for 89 minutes by that point and Kaká only 30 mins.
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That's just nonsense from a physical point of view. A player as small as Messi will NEVER produce the high maximum pace of a taller athletic player. Over a distance of 50m, Van Buyten a couple of years would probably be faster than him. I remember a game against Arsenal (early 2nd half if I remember correctly) where Messi attempted to reach a pass into the wide open field by sprinting for almost half the length of the pitch towards the corner flag. Initially, he blazed past the Arsenal defender (can't remember who it was, but he was around 1,85-1,90 tall I guess) but after about 25 meters the defender pretty much strolled past Messi at full sprint.

He LOOKS so fast because on his first 5 or 10 meters he is (was, as some might say) so much quicker than anybody else, be it from a standstill or from slow jogging pace. As my cousin, who watched him live a couple of times, put it: He accelerates so quickly that it looks like the other players are frozen in time for a second. That's were his stature helps him tremendously, while a taller player with a longer stride will eventually build enough speed to overtake him easily.

It's the same with people doubting Jagielka to be the "fastes" player in the EPL, expecting a smaller, mora agile player in the top spot.
 
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^^ Well, good thing is that there is more to football than just sprinting at full pace for 50m. And players who rely less on pace can cope better with growing age.
 
CLARiiON said:
^^ Well, good thing is that there is more to football than just sprinting at full pace for 50m. And players who rely less on pace can cope better with growing age.
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I'm just trying to work against this misconception, propagated by Fifa-stats (at which people probably look most often), that "small" and "quick" equals "great sprinter", which leads people to shout "bullshit!" when a supposedly slow, tall defender tops the highspeed list.
 
TheShedEnd said:
right now that's looking like it'll be wasted with Barcelona with their incompetence in appointing a qualified manager and inability to target the right players to rebuild the squad.
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He should hand in a transfer request and move on to another club to reignite his passion.. wouldn't mind him here.
 
Piratesoup said:
I'm just trying to work against this misconception, propagated by Fifa-stats (at which people probably look most often), that "small" and "quick" equals "great sprinter", which leads people to shout "bullshit!" when a supposedly slow, tall defender tops the highspeed list.
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There are two different attributes in the game, just like there is in real life. Acceleration and sprint speed/pace. I'd say acceleration matters more. Rarely are you able to make a proper sprint. Not unless you're a really good sprinter and your team set out to utilize that, then you won't be reaching your heights nearly as often.

Messi with his acceleration, or few meter sprints, combined with his ridiculous ball control and dribbling makes him so fast on the ball. You don't see it off the ball as he's really about as quick, but when you've got the ball you're slowed down considerably. He just looks like one who doesn't.

Defenders top the sprint speed list for a simple reason. They feck up or have to cover for a feck up. When a man is clean through on goal, no matter how hopeless the situation is, you will see the CB run as fast as he can. Often that can be from the half way line all the way back to the penalty are. That's about the distance you need to reach your top speed.
 
Snow said:
There are two different attributes in the game, just like there is in real life. Acceleration and sprint speed/pace. I'd say acceleration matters more
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I played center half for both my Sunday league club and my college and I've yet to come across a striker faster than me, but if I get touch tight I can be outdone by acceleration, it depends on your position but acceleration is by far the most important physical attribute when attacking I find.
 
Trizy said:
I played center half for both my Sunday league club and my college and I've yet to come across a striker faster than me, but if I get touch tight I can be outdone by acceleration, it depends on your position but acceleration is by far the most important physical attribute when attacking I find.
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That's why Messi would lose significant amount of impact power were he to lose this incredible advantage.
 
Piratesoup said:
That's why Messi would lose significant amount of impact power were he to lose this incredible advantage.
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Indeed, but he can still become a play maker which he seems to be adapting his game a lot towards creating lately. I'm not sure is it the manager or him that wants it, good idea for prolonging his career though.
 
Piratesoup said:
That's why Messi would lose significant amount of impact power were he to lose this incredible advantage.
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It's already happened, since the PSG injury in 2013 to be exact. He hasn't been the same Messi, physically. Decline of Barça, both collectively and individually, hasn't helped either. You're right re: pace/physical limitations, my attempt at ranking him was misguided but I still maintain that he's got a very good top speed (based on a figure I'd come across that clocked it at 35km/h in a particular game, I don't recall from where, maybe it was bs). So perhaps I'm wrong, but it's not "the same" as with people doubting tall defenders could be among fastest, as I didn't even mention this let alone deny or doubt it.

Otherwise completely agreed with everything you and @Snow touched upon in the above posts. Nice insights.
 
Skorenzy said:
come across that clocked it at 35km/h in a particular game
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Don't think that's possible for Messi for now. Some old stats say his max speed recorded was 33.8km/h.
During the world cup, he clocked around 30km/h. For comparison sake, Robben's top speed during Spain-Netherlands game was 31km/h according to FIFA. Di Maria also recorded around 32km/h during the world cup.
 
And still only 27, will have crazy numbers once he retires.
 
And that for a player who isn't just defined by goals and assists either. If I see another player like him, or even in the next 20-30 years, I'll make sure I actualy enjoy watching him play. I've spent too much of Messi's career being a bitter feck.
 
amolbhatia100 said:
And that for a player who isn't just defined by goals and assists either. If I see another player like him, or even in the next 20-30 years, I'll make sure I actualy enjoy watching him play. I've spent too much of Messi's career being a bitter feck.
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:lol::lol::lol:
 
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