By watching games. Messi's passing and creativity this season has been sublime and it's something Ronaldo will ever match.
If there was a huge gulf in their stats then you could argue your point but in reality they are quite even stats wise as well.
Lionel Messi
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By watching games. Messi's passing and creativity this season has been sublime and it's something Ronaldo will ever match.
If there was a huge gulf in their stats then you could argue your point but in reality they are quite even stats wise as well.
He was great against Bayern and in 1 leg against Dortmund (didn't play the other) but those two are near enough the only good performances from January onwards, including the World cup.
He was injured, yeah, but isn't that partly down to him not coping with the demands that his body used to handle better? Basically, isn't that similar to what you said about Messi?
This season it's hard to compare Messi with his 2011/12 form (though for me that wasn't his best season, again not everything is about stats) because he's playing an entirely different role. He's not as clinical as he was then, for sure, but in terms of performances I think he's about the same...though of course it's too early in the season to make any bold statements, just as it is with Cristiano.
Actually by turning the tv on and watching the football matches. Messi has always been objectively better than Ronaldo.
Ronaldo deserved to win the last Ballon Dor.
Since then I think Ronaldo has been better than Messi again but it's closer than last year, Ronaldo's incredible start to this season may just swing it his way. I think both Ronaldo and Messi looked knackered towards the end of last season, I thought maybe there would start to be a little dip in their stats but it doesn't look like it.
Since then I think Ronaldo has been better than Messi again but it's closer than last year, Ronaldo's incredible start to this season may just swing it his way. I think both Ronaldo and Messi looked knackered towards the end of last season, I thought maybe there would start to be a little dip in their stats but it doesn't look like it.
It's already been clear enough to see for over a year now that he has declined physically to some extent, but not exactly in the way you're describing. He still has that energy, explosiveness and speed, but what has noticeably diminished in my opinion is his capacity to employ these attributes with the same frequency as pre-injury (ie. stamina). That said, I doubt you'll see a noticeable difference in the 2nd half of the season as he's capable of overcoming this issue by adapting his game as he's been doing so far.
Re: last season's performances, he started off excellently (hat-trick at the Mestalla, last-minute heroics v Sevilla, hat-trick v Ajax) until getting injured against Almería at the end of September, after which he came back immediately but was struggling (with his match fitness, performances and "stat" output) for a good month until he got injured again and was out until January (he failed to score in 5 league apps, but remarkably did score 3 times against AC Milan in that period). From then on until the end of March he was brilliant in some games (Getafe & Levante in the cup, Sevilla (A), Man City (H), Real Madrid (A), most notably), woeful in others (Levante (A), Valladolid (A), Espanyol (A) and Betis (H) especially) but mostly just plain "invisible"/ineffective in the final 2 months of the season (both legs v Atlético in the CL, apart from one moment of playmaking brilliance that Iniesta couldn't finish; the Copa final v RM, and basically every other game after his hat-trick at the Bernabéu).
It was strange to see him going through games with so little influence in the build-up, so little energy (even if he wasn't pressing like under Guardiola before he was almost catatonic now), not even that many "flashes", partially due to the accumulation of injuries throughout 2013 (he had to leave the pitch injured 5(!) times that year) and subsequent physical decline and partially due to Tata Martino's tactical scheme less involving Messi (he both made and received the least amount of passes per 90min compared to his previous three seasons and also took the lowest % of his team's shots).
This season he's shot out of the starting blocks once again and has been a lot more involved in the build-up, both on and off the ball (making more runs and making himself available more often), and with pressing and defensive work (averaging nearly 1 successful tackle per game). More positives: an increased number of Key Passes per game (the highest average in his career so far). Negatives: losing his clinical touch (both shooting accuracy and conversion rate are down by a lot) and having a far worse success rate at dribbling than anytime before (which is likely related to said physical decline).
It'll be interesting to see how the addition of Suárez will affect Messi: will he become even more of a "provider" or will he get more space to score himself? Or both?
One was him being unable to finish and being generally shit. The rest will be excuses you'll make for him.There's a very simple explanation of the fact that Messi was great against Real and poor against Atletico which is quite consistent with what I say. He was still fresh in March (due to being two months out during the season) and already tired in May. And he was still a bit tired during the WC. Now, he looks relatively fresh again. My take is that it won't last long enough and he will finish the season in poor form again. I'll happily admit my mistake if this season proves that Messi is still in his peak years.
As regards Ronaldo, there were at least two objective reasons why he wasn't great in Brazil and you know them well. This season, he's scored more goals than Messi and Neymar taken together and looks physically far superior to them,despite being olderthan them. I can see you admitting in two years time that Ronaldo was more special than you were ready to admit back in 2014
Ah, so messi was fresh in March and tired by may. This isn't a great point really.
You're basically making excuses for any poor peformance from Ronaldo but being overly critical about messi.
You didn't actually answer his questions. Not in this post and not in the one before. Probbaly because it will show your view to be a bit ropey and biased.
My opinion is that messi did look a little unfit at the World Cup despite being one of its better players. And that he does seem less explosive than he used to be and you could say that is related to fitness/health as well. But even taking that into consideration, he's still the best footballer in the world for me. He's been outstanding this season.
What I find odd is people making up things by saying daft things like "when was the last time he performed against a good team?" Or saying he was rubbish against atletico in the decider, when he was acually good and should have had the title clinching winner. It smacks of bias.
It's one thing having an opinion on him or even things he's gotten worse at, I do too, but it's another making up things to suit your agenda.
What I find odd is people making up things by saying daft things like "when was the last time he performed against a good team?" Or saying he was rubbish against atletico in the decider, when he was acually good and should have had the title clinching winner. It smacks of bias.
It's one thing having an opinion on him or even things he's gotten worse at, I do too, but it's another making up things to suit your agenda.
I think his physical decline has little to do with his worse performance level. Nearly every bad game he has is down to not looking for the ball enough, and therefore not getting on the ball enough.
The only times he's actually been getting on the ball enough and looked motivated - while still having a bad game - has been when he's just been back after injuries.
Even when he is having a bad game he's at the level of the best strikers in the world.
The only times he's actually been getting on the ball enough and looked motivated - while still having a bad game - has been when he's just been back after injuries.
Even when he is having a bad game he's at the level of the best strikers in the world.
Top post, enjoyed it very much.
Ok, so everyone (including me) that were still a bit sceptical about saying that there is something wrong going on with Messi can now be more brave about it. Really weird performance, he lost a lot of pace.
ssssshhhhhhhhhh
You don't watch football enough. Go watch football enough.
Rubbish. He just can't do everything on his own.
Skorenzy is right about his finishing, that has regressed, but he still created chances and Neymar fluffed them.
How many times did Barcelona probe Real Madrid's back line today? After the first half hour, they fell apart. They reverted back to getting it to Alves to put in umpteen pointless crosses that suited nobody but Ramos and Pepe.
On the counter attack? Non existant. Barcelona don't have one. They see space in front of them and jog up pitch, pass it sideways, let the opposition regroup, then try to play through them.
Messi was very average tonight, but it has feck all to do with him individually. Barcelona are finished, and they refuse to strengthen the areas that matter most. With the transfer ban, it'll continue and I personally hope it lasts for a long time yet. Very arrogant Club.
Skorenzy is right about his finishing, that has regressed, but he still created chances and Neymar fluffed them.
How many times did Barcelona probe Real Madrid's back line today? After the first half hour, they fell apart. They reverted back to getting it to Alves to put in umpteen pointless crosses that suited nobody but Ramos and Pepe.
On the counter attack? Non existant. Barcelona don't have one. They see space in front of them and jog up pitch, pass it sideways, let the opposition regroup, then try to play through them.
Messi was very average tonight, but it has feck all to do with him individually. Barcelona are finished, and they refuse to strengthen the areas that matter most. With the transfer ban, it'll continue and I personally hope it lasts for a long time yet. Very arrogant Club.
Yep, it's all the opposition players trying to stop him. How dare they, those buggers.
Wum aside, tonight was a strange one, I'd have thought he'll put in an extra special performance the game being at the Bernabeu, but boy was he disappointing. Xavi and Iniesta have regressed a lot and Busquets hasn't been doing great either. They still, as a team, somehow succeed in their attempt to accumulate the most no. of pointless 5-yard passes, so kudos to them.
You're such a Ronaldo fan boi.
Messi's dribbling seems to have regressed. He's been brilliant in the number 10 role so far this seaosn but as today showed he's more reliant now on his team mates. In a sterile team peformance he looked sterile. I'm sure if they turn it on next week hell set up his usual 5 or 6 chances. But his old dribbling used to set him apart from every other footballer on the planet in that he could basically pick it up and beat a few and rely less on his team mates.
That's the thing with tiki taka. When it works and you're not defending like clowns, it looks imperious. When you're leaky at the back it looks pointless. If they can't get this midfield to up their level then they probably should adapt their style.
Exactly. They have a non existant midfield, Busquets offers feck all protection to their back four and he's awful transitioning defence to attack. Xavi and Iniesta hold onto the ball for too long and play the safe pass, it's Mikel-esque most the time.
Neymar was horrid tonight aside from his goal, Messi dropped deeper and couldn't influence play as much with no movement up front. Suarez looked like the only one who was actually trying. Moment he went off and Pedro came on they were done.
Hmm, sorry, never been impressed with that, I'd prefer the Real of today to any of the Barca sides of the past. I understand it's pleasing to many, but I also believe it's just boring for many like me.
He's defiantly lost that burst of acceleration that he used to have. He's not slow by any means, but he just hasn't got the same 'bang' that he used too.
Right, you were never impressed by the bets club team most people have seen and certainly in recent memory.
I actually did find their style a bit boring too, but "not being impressed" by it is ridiculous.
He's not running anymore. Most of the team isn't running anymore. It's like " ok guys we've won enough in the past , let's just have some fun.... or retire "!!
That's all good and no player can maintain that level every game every year. To me he is still and will always be among world's best ever even if he retires tomorrow without a world cup. My problem is same considerations are not made for Ronaldo, who is much more of a wide player and easy to cut out of the game by stopping supply to him. Yet when that happens all Messi fan bois like you are quick to jump on him. It is unbelievable that after tonight's game there are more posts berating Ronaldo performance but excuses are being given for Messi's. I hope some people realize their hypocrisy...It is beyond ridiculous.
He was actually quite good in the first half IMO, created two or three clear chances out of nothing just for him teammates to ruin them.
But why are the attackers doing poorly? Because Iniesta and Xavi refuse to play on the break, they hold on too much untill the attackers have to face 7 players defending them again.
Must be that "philosophy" thing. The same philosophy that made Spain lose in group stages of WC.
Guardiola transformed Bayern from unbeatable champions to a 0-4 laughing stock.
Philosophy...
He missed the goal that would've sealed the game. No excuses
Oh, don't get me wrong, I was impressed by how effective they were with their style, I was just not impressed by the style itself.
Did not see how messi was mocked at the World Cup final here,mand excuses of lack of fitness and injury were made for both him and Ronaldo?
That was actually great save.
You can't say that for definate. Real took Barcelona apart in the second half and could have ended with alot more than just the 3 goals.
I would say he still gets more slack than Ronaldo. I wasn't posting/reading much during world cup time though. I don't agree with Messi berating after each and every bad performance as well. Kind of stupid. I don't think I have done that often and you can search. To me those are 2 players who are at very different levels. There is not a lot between them and I would agree if someone calls Messi better overall by hair margin but that's it. Very thin margin and Barca's stable style helped probably. I get into discussion where Ronaldo's good things are downplayed under variety of reasons and attempts are made to show how Messi is considerably 'better' player than Ronaldo. He is not.
He used to be, for sure. Attempts were not just made on the caf. There was a consensus that messi at his peak on a different level to everyone else.
Coming back from 1-0 down and 2-0 down are totally different scenarios. Circumstances change, psychologically there is change. Should be obvious to anyone who has watched football. I won't blame Messi's miss for their loss, these kind of things happen but it would have given Barca a big advantage and would have put lots of pressure on Madrid.
To me, that thing is to be discussed over the years not based on a season. Better or considerably better player. There are circumstances other than their individual form only which has affected one and handed other some advantage each season.
Loads disagreed.
Also, loads think FC Bayern under Heynckes last year was better than Barcelona at their best.
It's not a big difference between Ronaldo & Messi, there hasn't been for quite some time (back to before Messi developed into... Well Messi.)
Disappointing game today, didn't even look half-arsed to chase the game back when trailing behind. I expected more from him, the 5 yards missed and overhitted freekick sum up his performance.
messi didnt play well today, nor did ronaldo
His intelligent run created the space for Neymar to get his shot off for Barca's goal. Even when he has a bad game, he's still influential.
Not sure what's your point but in case you don't know Bayern did the double last season.
Recently they also thrashed Roma 7-1 at thee Olimpico.
He's clearly on the decline, he's physically nothing close to what he used to be.
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