Argentina lost the final, not Messi alone. When Argentina is deserving of a WC win, Messi will be deserving as a part of that team. But I guess the modern day football fan is supposed to feel joy and sorrow with individual players above teams.
Lionel Messi
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If I am not mistaken, he once claimed that he has scored 5000 goals. I tend to not fully believe those kind of stats (similarily when it comes to Pele who apparently counted goals on garden, playstation and on his dreams).
The weight on his passes is noteworthy indeed. The ball stops perfectly, he doesn't just punt it.
Some of those passes are *** worthy
The weight on his passes is noteworthy indeed. The ball stops perfectly, he doesn't just punt it.
So, in this sequence he dodge challenges from Pepe - Marcelo - Alonso - Khedira - Ramos! hmm...
He doesn't get marks for avoiding Marcelo tbf....
That third pass gif 
Neymar, Di Maria, and Bacca have been nominated for best South American player for La Liga 2013/2014.
Errr...
Errr...
WTF?
Aye.
It's odd. Last season he was second top scorer with 28 goals (3 less than 1st place Ronaldo), and was joint fourth in the assists table with 12 (5 behind Di Maria and 1 behind Koke & Fabregas). Put on a masterclass at the Bernabeu too. That with his injury woes.
Seems because there were many saying he's not playing at the same level he was 18 months ago, that's been interpreted as him being shit. Ronaldo's consistent goal form probably hasn't helped that either. I'd love to know the reasoning behind that decision though.
Reason is simple, Messi is held to a higher standard than everyone else. Rightly or wrongly people criticise him for performances they'd laud if it'd been by any other player.
This. He's set impossible standards. Same reason his brilliance this season is not getting big hype. People look t his goal tally and think hes not been as good as usual. And the brilliant things he does do have sort of become "normal". The set up for Neymar's goal was something we'd be raving about had it been our own di Maria.
Exactly. I've bleated on about it for months now, but that seems to be the only stat people care about. It's happened with us this season actually. Costa's been brilliant, but Hazard's been in a different realm to him, he's not getting anywhere near the same kind of attention though. In fact, there was a handful of people on here saying Costa was better than Hazard when I mentioned his ability in the Champions League thread. Unbelievable.
This makes proper sense 
Anyways, I don't think any player is fussed about this award. So, not a big deal. It though raises few questions on how certain people watch the games.
Anyways, I don't think any player is fussed about this award. So, not a big deal. It though raises few questions on how certain people watch the games.
I think he's one of the best players of all time.
Messi was very poor in the decisive games vs Atletico M toward the end of last season, nothing to do with impossible standards or something. Go watch these games again, he was a passenger. The game against Real will be quite revealing about his form. He was poor against Malaga earlier this season. If he's poor again, there may be a tendency...
He had one average game and has been brilliant in others. It seems you're hopimg he struggles so you can form a sample of greater than one to beat him with. If Ronaldo is poor, will it be revealing about his form?
Tendency? He's had one poor game all season, 2 doesn't make it any more concerning...
The games against the better teams are more revealing about the actual form of a player, you know. Malaga are a decent team, Madrid are even better.
When was the last time Messi had a great game against a very strong team? Remind me about that.
Maybe you are right that he is close to his best. I want to believe it because I support Barca in Spain. I'm not sure though...
Name one player (just 1 is enough) who didn't have a bad game throughout last season.
Wasn't he great in the Classico last season as usual?
And he wasn't bad against atletico in the title decider either. It's just that atletico managed to defend better as a team than barca attacked. Messi did have a clear goal wrongly disallowed.
How about the hattrick against Real Madrid last season? He was good against PSG this season too if that counts as big game.
Is Cristiano's disappointing performances against Atlético this season (1 half aside) not a tendency?
He was great against PSG. I don't get the criticism. Every player has an off day every once in a while, even Messi and Ronaldo.
Quick look at some stats from last season, he blew madrid away in March last year with a hat trick to win the game 4-3. Scored in both games against City in the champions league. Remember him making a fool of kompany in that one.
But yeah, it's messi, so it feels like he hasn't done it for ages of course.
The difference between them as of late is whilst Ronaldo does have many more sub-standard games in comparison to Messi, he will pop up with more goals. You'll have noticed that in La Liga this season. Pretty much like a centre-forward seemingly playing poor then earning the Stevie G MOTM special for grabbing the winner. A certain Jimmy Greaves was the master in that, and Ronaldo's developing more and more into a striker than a wide forward.
Forgot about those City games. He was made to look a cart-horse in those matches, still didn't stop the team of buffoons at Sky blaming Demichelis for all Kompany's mistakes though.
Messi wasn't good in the three season defining games against Atletico, not in some random game during the season. Then, he didn't have a single great game during the WC against a strong team. He started very well in the final but then faded pretty badly.
IMO, he's not the same player anymore. He lost some of his energy, explosiveness and speed. However, he was the best footballer ever before that, therefore, he's still one of the best in the world and can decide games on his own, particularly against avarage teams. But he's declining physically and this will become clear in the second half of the season when he will have played some 35 games or so. Watch this space.
Of course, I could be completely wrong. I'll be the first to admit it and I will be happy for him and Barca. The longer we watch Messi in his peak as a player, the better for football in general. Wish him to avoid any injuries and prove me wrong.
So the last Classico in la lig doesn't count eh? Scored three and assisted one in that. Only games against atletico madrid seem to matter. Ronaldo was abysmal in the World Cup but I bet you won't draw these conclusions in his case.
I feel sorry for Ronaldo; one of the main reasons he won't be considered GOAT status will be because he never had a great international cup run. But the thing is, Ronaldo does all he can to carry his NT. Portugal wouldn't have even made the World Cup had he not carried the team.
^^ Everybody has bad games in a season. And when someone isn't physically 100%, you can't have 'amazing' matches everytime.
Any team would have struggled with Atletico last season, and virtually every team struggled. Real could never get a measure of Atletico even now. That's how good Simeone is. Real had back-to-back home loses against Atletico, 1st time it ever happened. That's how good Atletico are when playing against good teams. Chelsea found out how tough they are to beat. It was just a Ramos's header which turned the tide in CL final, or your would have been looking at their 1st CL win as well.
BTW, that goal (not given) in the final league game vs Atletico would have clinched the title for Barca. Just 1 mistake from linesman (it was a tough call) changed the title. But I am not much worried about that, such mistakes happen. Barca and Argentina didn't win anything, but they ran close. And with Messi still not at his best, he was still the best player in both teams, comfortably.
The 'goal' which should have won Barca the title, but I agree that Atletico deserved the title last season.
Any team would have struggled with Atletico last season, and virtually every team struggled. Real could never get a measure of Atletico even now. That's how good Simeone is. Real had back-to-back home loses against Atletico, 1st time it ever happened. That's how good Atletico are when playing against good teams. Chelsea found out how tough they are to beat. It was just a Ramos's header which turned the tide in CL final, or your would have been looking at their 1st CL win as well.
BTW, that goal (not given) in the final league game vs Atletico would have clinched the title for Barca. Just 1 mistake from linesman (it was a tough call) changed the title. But I am not much worried about that, such mistakes happen. Barca and Argentina didn't win anything, but they ran close. And with Messi still not at his best, he was still the best player in both teams, comfortably.
The 'goal' which should have won Barca the title, but I agree that Atletico deserved the title last season.
There's a very simple explanation of the fact that Messi was great against Real and poor against Atletico which is quite consistent with what I say. He was still fresh in March (due to being two months out during the season) and already tired in May. And he was still a bit tired during the WC. Now, he looks relatively fresh again. My take is that it won't last long enough and he will finish the season in poor form again. I'll happily admit my mistake if this season proves that Messi is still in his peak years.
As regards Ronaldo, there were at least two objective reasons why he wasn't great in Brazil and you know them well. This season, he's scored more goals than Messi and Neymar taken together and looks physically far superior to them,despite being olderthan them. I can see you admitting in two years time that Ronaldo was more special than you were ready to admit back in 2014
You keep ignoring the point so I'll ask it again, maybe you'll answer this time:
How come if Messi plays poorly against Atlético it proves he's not the same player he used to be but Cristiano playing poorly means nothing? He hasn't been good numerous times against them this season and last season, out of the many games they've played it's only the Copa del Rey games last season and 1 half of a Liga game this season when he performed. Otherwise he had bad games (but scored a few penalties).
Messi has been outstanding this season. If you can't see that I feel sorry for you (though to be honest it reads more like you haven't seen much of him?).
There's barely any difference between then in terms of stats alone. Then you have to consider the fact that Messi is playing a different role to last season which accounts for his decreased goal output. And then there's the fact that Ronaldo has scored about 4/5 pens as well.
Messi has 18 goals/assists in 11 games.
Ronaldo has 22 goals/assists in 12 games.
In terms of performances, Messi is still far ahead of Ronaldo even if the latters performances have gone up a notch this season. Not sure why you keep bringing up the physique of the playes. Come the end of the season Messi's stats will be right up there with Ronaldo if not better. Suarez will not be as wasteful of Messi's sublime passes as Pedro is.
Messi has 18 goals/assists in 11 games.
Ronaldo has 22 goals/assists in 12 games.
In terms of performances, Messi is still far ahead of Ronaldo even if the latters performances have gone up a notch this season. Not sure why you keep bringing up the physique of the playes. Come the end of the season Messi's stats will be right up there with Ronaldo if not better. Suarez will not be as wasteful of Messi's sublime passes as Pedro is.
The answer to your question is above. I'm sorry if you can't grasp it.
There is evidence about Messi's performances which allows different interpretations. My interpretation is that Messi is declining physically wise which means that he cannot sustain a top form over the course of a whole season for he lacks the stamina he had earlier. Watch him fade in th esecond half of the season if not evenm earlier. As regards Ronaldo, he is stronger than ever, that much is obvious.
So...Messi isn't the same player he used to be because he faded badly last season, but Cristiano is stronger than ever despite also fading badly last season? Messi isn't the same player he used to be because he had a few poor games against Atléti but Cristiano is stronger than ever despite also having poor games against Atléti?
That makes total sense. Seems like 1 standard for judging Messi and another for judging everyone else.
How do you measure the level of their performances, given that Ronaldo's stats are better?
By watching them. Cristiano Ronaldo has been excellent this season, even his performances have been better, so I wouldn't personally say Messi's are far better...but basing it on Cristiano's stat alone is something only chumps who don't watch players do.
Ronaldo didn't fade badly last season. He was injured. He still scored 2 and assisted 1 out of the 5 goals Madrid scored against Bayern. This season, he's having the finest start in his career. Is it the same with Messi? Is he as good as he was 2011/2012?
If you are biased toward a palyer, then your bias is likely to interfere with what you see, Bob. It's quite simple. That was my last post here. I'll come toward the end of the season. Hopefully, Messi is still in his prime. I very much doubt it though.
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