Have to disagree with you there. I didn't think Messi did all that much except to score one great goal and two penalties. He also had a terrific assist of course and thus he is motm counting stats. Iniesta for me was everywhere; he defends like a champ, dribbles much better than anyone out there, creates, passes, moves the ball - for me there was no doubt that Iniesta was the best player - quite a bit like Mata was motm for me against West Ham, but Rooney's goals are hard to overlook.
Lionel Messi
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Have to disagree with you there. I didn't think Messi did all that much except to score one great goal and two penalties. He also had a terrific assist of course and thus he is motm counting stats. Iniesta for me was everywhere; he defends like a champ, dribbles much better than anyone out there, creates, passes, moves the ball - for me there was no doubt that Iniesta was the best player - quite a bit like Mata was motm for me against West Ham, but Rooney's goals are hard to overlook.
In the Clasicos he does for sure. Every time he is the difference and Real would win 9 out of 10 Clasicos if not for him.
I wonder if that someone was me...
Looking at today, Messi's passing was far superior to Ronaldo's, but Ronaldo has shown brilliant short passing in other games; that said, I don't watch these teams enough to really say. Sometimes I should just know when to shut up...
Great game from him tonight. Him and Iniesta ran the show for Barca tonight.
Ronaldo makes it difficult for himself in fairness, in the first half he went down under a slight touch from Alves, when he could have just leaped and won the header and probably scored, then he trys to stand Pique up who just pokes the ball away, players like Pique watch the ball not your feet, Messi takes the ball one way then the other, he's a magician like with slight of hand... he completely wrong foots defenders.
I think this has just reminded everyone after the Ballon D'or hype and Messi's injury that in fact Messi is still on a different level to Ronaldo and always has been.
not a slight on Ronaldo, but that is the gist of it.
Still a class above Ronaldo, its not really a competition between them two. Hope Argentina can win the WC this Summer. Would make him the undisputed GOAT IMO.
Judging from one match where the hat-trick is a little blinding and Ronaldo was not on his A-game? One extreme to the other I see...
Fair play to Ron for sticking it out and working harder and harder. He's a freak of nature, but yeah, Messi will always be a level above IMO.
It's similar to our trajectory. We could have had another 1-2 UCL if it wasn't for that Barca side.
Messi is better than Ronaldo though, not just basing it on one match.
If Messi puts in blinding performances adn Argentina get to the final and lose, people would still use that as a stick to beat him with. With some people, you just can't win because football is so subjective.
I do hope he wins the WC just because it'd shut a few such people up.
Silly comment to make, when you consider Pele has won 3 world cups.
He will never be undisputed GOAT, but he is already in the argument.
Ronaldo has been better than Messi for about 18 months, so you might argue both ways. I think the pro-Messi camps are making too much out of these games. The red card gave Barca a real advantage. Before that, I was thinking that neither Messi nor Ronaldo played very well; Busquets, Iniesta, Di Maria and Benzema were all better.
I'm not saying that number of WCs is a measure of how good you are, just that people will use the fact that Messi doesnt have a WC to put him down.
Maradona > Pele IMO, so in my opinion, its Maradona that Messi needs to overtake.
My dad is a huge Pele fan & I doubt anyone will ever surpass Pele in his eyes
.But I have to ask you, did Pele ever carry any of those team to victory, the way Maradona supposedly did & the way Messi would need to, if this Argentina side has any chance?
I'm just asking because I don't know the answer myself. Way before my time. I just know Pele played with some extraordinary players as well.
Two terrific assists. That pass to Neymar for the penalty was ridiculous!
He had a great game.
Before the red card? You think so, then we disagree.
"undisputed" anything is silly in sport. It's all about opinions. There's no right or wrong. Of course, if anyone thinks Ronaldo is equal to or greater than Messi then exceptions can be made...
You fail to mention that it was Messi's genius pass that created the red card. He also made the first goal and scored another. This was a huge match, Real had the chance to kill Barca out of the title race so I'm not sure your argument is holding up here.
My dad is a huge Pele fan & I doubt anyone will ever surpass Pele in his eyes
But I have to ask you, did Pele ever carry any of those team to victory, the way Maradona supposedly did & the way Messi would need to, if this Argentina side has any chance?
I'm just asking because I don't know the answer myself. Way before my time. I just know Pele played with some extraordinary players as well.
He didn't, but does he need to?
For what its worth he was the best player in 1970 at 29, in 1958 at 17 he was the 2nd best tournament, and the 2nd top scorer.
Thats what you call a phenom, when players like that have lived, i don't think you can say anyone who comes after is undisputed GOAT.
Do you get an assist for the penalty created by another to which you take? Sounds a bit absurd... it was a great pass, granted. I'm not saying that he wasn't good, but up till that sending off, he wasn't great. He scored a good goal, but didn't contribute all that much - couldn't really get past players, passing a little sloppy and all a little meh, probably because the tempo was much higher. It's just my opinion though.
Before the red he'd played two great passes that led to two goals... I don't think his performance in the first half was neither good enough or bad enough to be warranting any discussion whatsoever. If we want to talk about who was quiet or who didn't do much pre-red cards then clearly there'll be aboot 18/19 players ahead of Messi because he, Iniesta, Di Maria and Benzema were the main contributors.
It was also an offside. What does it matter whether or not it was a huge match? Do you get an extra point for that, from an 8 to a 9?
I did say his stats is what gives him motm; overall play, Iniesta was better, and up until that red card, there were at least four better players than him, imo.
@Rossa - you've made your point pal, you like Ronaldo more.
With all due respect, Ronaldo is an absolute beast. That can never be denied. The man is a hero among footballers.
Leo Messi is Leo Messi. I am not basing that on one game, I am basing that on his career. He is Leo Messi
With all due respect, Ronaldo is an absolute beast. That can never be denied. The man is a hero among footballers.
Leo Messi is Leo Messi. I am not basing that on one game, I am basing that on his career. He is Leo Messi
There is simply no comparison. It was an embarassing comparison.. you're talking about a guy who makes even the likes of Xavi and Iniesta look cautious with their passing, there is no way Ronaldo possesses the same vision. No way.
Iniesta was quality as per usual but for me Messi looked a threat every time he had the ball, it has been a while since I felt that surge of excitement when Messi has the ball in a top game but boy he had it in spades today.. thrilling.
But why would Messi be undisputed GOAT if he wins a world cup, what makes him convincingly better than Pele even if does go on to win say 2 world cups?
You genuinely think Ronaldo is a better player than Messi? Why?
Barca's attack basically goes through Messi AND he still manages to keep up with (and surpass) Ronaldo's goal tallies year in, year out.
He's just better.
I've said thirteen times that his stats were great; but besides that he didn't do all that much; it was Iniesta who ran the show and Busquets who facilitated the play. People are so touchy when it comes to Messi.
What else should he really be expected to when he's getting an assist and scoring? Even if he wasn't at his brilliant best, it's still an excellent contribution. A hat-trick is fantastic from him. Even if a couple are coming from penalties, he's still got to score those penalties.
Messi was central to almost all Barca's attacks, scored and had assisted a goal by that time, so I'm not sure how your judging him.
It's not just about stats to me. I can't explain it I guess. If you took the stats away, Messi's a superior player to everyone. That's just my opinion. It doesn't mean it's right of course.
I've always said, the difference between Messi and Ronaldo for me is that Messi is going to end his career as a potential GOAT, and Ronaldo is going to end his career as a potential top 10 GOAT.
No he's not. I'm pretty confident if Messi hadn't gotten any of the injuries he had Ronaldo would still be chasing that Ballon D'or. His injuries alone took him out of contention, after that there wasn't anyone else who could challenge Ronaldo.
OK - your opinion... I won't make a discussion of it here as I've learnt that there is absolutely no point and we'll be going at it till six a.m. My opinion, from a limited viewing, Ronaldo has been better for the last 18 months. Some seem to agree with me seeing that he won Ballon d'Or.
Well, injuries do play a part... simple as that. If RVP wasn't injured, he might be a helluva lot better. Fact is, Ronaldo, for me, was better in that period.
On the Messi-Ronaldo thing, I still think Messi is the better player, although I'd agree that Ronaldo has had the better past year or so.
No he hasn't. Messi was better until he got injured against PSG he carried Barca in the league and after the injury he still came back and won games for Barca scoring goals only he could. Then they started this season and Ronaldo went on an insane scoring run when Messi was injured.
This better for 18 months thing is nonsense.
p.s Also this is what people say about Ronaldo his lack of contribution in the build up in comparison to Messi. He was just hanging around the goal all game trying to score. Those passes Messi played to Neymar, he dribbling, close control.....
I think it's a greater achievement if you're carrying your team, yeah. Also world cups shouldn't really matter that much IMO, but I guess we need some sort of universal measure.
Agreed with your argument though. There's too many variables to take into account when comparing different eras for a start.
Oh, but for me you are going overboard there; Iniesta and Xavi are superior passers to Messi, especially Xavi who is great at both long passing and short passing. It's a matter of opinion though, and as I've said, seeing that I don't watch them all that much, I should know when to shut up. What I can say is that Iniesta is the one that impresses me the most every time I watch Barca, not Messi...
But now I have to sleep
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