I remember when this used to be a bookable offense but Messi is often subjected to different rules when it comes to defending
Lionel Messi
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I remember when this used to be a bookable offense but Messi is often subjected to different rules when it comes to defending
I remember when this used to be a bookable offense but Messi is often subjected to different rules when it comes to defending
Actually, out of all the attackers in La Liga, he is subjected to probably the most fouls, and because he sees Messi shrug it off, then he thinks nothing more of it. This then gives other players a free licence to kick lumps out of him, but as long as he scores goals, then that is all that counts for the officials. If they actually started booking players for challenges of that nature plus the sliding tackles that he is subjected to, day in, day out, then Messi might possibly score more goals since they would be too afraid to tackle him again. Yep, the most fouled player in La Liga but the officials turn a blind eye for some reason. In fact, they would prefer to see a great player be crippled, because it will happen one day because the officials are giving defenders the green light to go medieval on him, which is wrong. The least protected player in La Liga.
He's quite clearly a class above everyone else. Forget his goalscoring and unparalleled dribbling, none of the other guys scoring loads of goals can play the kind of magical passes he can.
That is probably true. However, I believe that the post by FCBarca has a very valid point. We know that Spanish referees are card happy feckers, yet few are willing to show a yellow card to someone who fouls him, even though he continues his run. I mean, normally, a referee would go back to the offending player when the ball goes out of play and then card him. Surely when a goal is scored, that should mean there is a break in play and as such, a yellow card should be given to the offender. If a yellow card isn't given for a serious foul simply because Messi scored a goal gives the others a green light to continue to foul him. He can be his own worse enemy at times, since he doesn't fall down too easily, instead preferring to try and score rather than have a break in play for a free-kick. However, your point about his "unparalleled dribbling" is spot on, and when I watched the George Best tribute, it is clear that these two and perhaps Maradona are or were the best dribblers the game has ever seen.
He's got such a lovely technique when he passes. Seems to be almost no backlift sometimes and the ball flys off his foot perfectly.
Maradona, incidentally, is also the most fouled player in Serie A history.
Loves to nutmeg
Yeah, I just read something about that. It was in the 1986/87 season when Napoli won Serie A and the Italian Cup. Now, to put things into perspective, I have to use a player that has played nearly the same amount of minutes. With that in mind, and knowing that he does indeed get fouled a great deal, Cristiano Ronaldo, according to Whoscored has been fouled an incredible 36 times in 1,584 minutes of La Liga football or a foul every 44 minutes. Now, let us go back to Serie A in the 80s when it was hard as nails and anything went. Maradona apparently played something like 1,490 minutes of football in that season and only got 10 goals as a result and he was fouled an incredible 87 times or a foul every 17 minutes. Of course, if he had made a meal of it by going down, it could have been even more. Today, I found another site where they compared the two modern greats of todays game in Messi and Ronaldo and there was only 2 fouls difference; 72 fouls to Messi and 70 for Ronaldo. However, these statistics are skewed somewhat since they do not count the number of times Messi has been fouled but continues on to try and score a goal or set up a teammate. For me, he is clearly the most fouled player in European football without a shadow of a doubt, yet also the less protected.
Two interesting facts at Diego Maradona too:
Maradona holds the record for suffering the most number of fouls in a World Cup – 53, during the 1986 World Cup in Mexico, and He also holds the record for the most number of fouls suffered in one game in a World Cup, when Italy fouled him 23 times in the 1982 edition of the tournament.
This is how genies are treated.
Where do you get your stats from?
I think it's definitely true. I can't think of another goal a game attacker who can split defences the way he can. The rest of them just play intelligent passes at best.
And I don't think he's his biggest enemy in that regard. Thing with Messi is, he's good enough to make use of the subsequent situation whereas the others aren't and hence they go down. For him, getting past the tackle is an opportunity whereas for a lot of others getting the foul is a better opportunity instead. Also most of the time, these guys lunging at him cant even get close enough to put him off.
The bloke on the bottom right of the gif at the very beginning seemed to know what was coming.
How the feck is that weirdo of Ray Hudson allowed to commentate ? fecking atrocious voice.
Now, even though Messi received a red card on his Argentina debut for reacting, I felt that the referee actually got his decision spot on for yellow carding the player who was clearly fouling Messi at the start. If this rule was applied in La Liga where he constantly gets fouled then perhaps the defenders will reflect on this. Whether Messi scores or not is not at issue, it is the constant fouling that goes on and the lack of punishment.
Referee's rarely if ever give fouls, let alone yellows, if the player continues with the ball. It happens everywhere, I don't think Messi is some kind of exception. Only in that he's so fecking good and refuses to go down easily, so it happens a lot more to him.
That's the reason I can't blame players that go down easily (different than diving or seeking contact of course). It makes absolutely no sense. Players who refuse to do that are at a massive disadvantage, unless their name is Lionel Messi and the momentum they've gained will allow them to skip past the next 3 opponents.
That's the reason I can't blame players that go down easily (different than diving or seeking contact of course). It makes absolutely no sense. Players who refuse to do that are at a massive disadvantage, unless their name is Lionel Messi and the momentum they've gained will allow them to skip past the next 3 opponents.
I agree with you. However, in the video I posted, the player that apparently got elbowed by Messi was actually shown a yellow card. You cannot deny that Messi is the most fouled player in La Liga, however, if he was to go down at each tackle, he would be well out there on his own. The same thing happened to Maradona, another player who refused to go down when he got tackled. It is about time that the officials grew a backbone and started to book players for fouls. I have seen occasions where Messi has been tackled from behind (which is a yellow card offence all day long, or a red should he be the last defender) but he has continued towards the goal to either score or pass to a teammate to score. The referee completely ignores the serious foul that went on, accords the goal and then lets play continue. This gives the offending defender yet another opportunity to commit yet another serious foul.
It actually feels great to see a ref coming back to book a player after he let the advantage on whereas he's just doing his job.
It might actually stop defenders in La Liga playing like butchers. I don't think we need reminding of what happened to Maradona when Goikoetxea decided to take him out of the game and only got a warning. This happens against Messi in most matches but the referee says nothing simply because he scored a goal. One day, history could repeat itself; another Argentinian genius injured simply because of his footballing ability.
Rarely do refs even bother to give a booking let alone go back to deliver a yellow/red retroactively
Though you do agree however that if those who have fouled Messi over the years been given a yellow card then, it is possible that Messi could have scored more goals since they would be on a last warning and thus might not want to try to tackle him. This is turn means that it gives Messi even more freedom. However, when there is a vicious tackle and the player doesn't get carded, then it gives the defender ample opportunity to do the same again, and again, and again until Messi gets seriously injured. Do you have any statistics for the number of tackles he has been subjected to i.e. genuine fouls when he wins a free kick and those where he gets challenged from behind; the shirt gets pulled etc and he scores a goal? And I am sure you must be in agreement that Messi is the least protected player in La Liga.
Definitely and frankly we're denied even more magic, tbh. All that incessant physical play & fouling has to take some toll and reduce the number of great runs he even attempts nevermind scores from. And as you say, defenders are basically given license to foul. Pepe & Alonso are good examples but there are even worse thugs in the Primera who aren't shy about chopping him down. That vid really only scratches the surface, I have several in my mind that were so offensively red card worthy that they didn't even get a booking - boggles the mind.
Perhaps it's my American perspective where superstars were on the receiving end of protection from the referees but I can think of a great number of top level footballers today who do enjoy that sort of protective whistle. Seems an odd way to advertise your sport, giving little protection to it's biggest talent
Perhaps it's my American perspective where superstars were on the receiving end of protection from the referees but I can think of a great number of top level footballers today who do enjoy that sort of protective whistle. Seems an odd way to advertise your sport, giving little protection to it's biggest talent
I will get back to you on those two and respond accordingly. I believe that these two players are amongst the worst of all defenders in La Liga with regards to bad challenges. When we are blessed to see a player like Messi, it brings back memories of Diego Maradona in that they are/were geniuses, they are/were untouchable unless you just want to go out there and cripple them, which is the goal of most defenders. Perhaps it is an over-exaggeration on my part but, when the officials let them get away with the disgusting behaviour they inflict on Messi means that sooner or later, he is going to get seriously injured.
The only way they can stop this is by implicating some system where an offending player can either be yellow carded or red carded according to the severity of the tackle. That way, La Liga might get back to some sort of respectability rather than the thuggishness we see, week in, week out.
Unreal passing against Levante,
Not that unreal at all to be fair MM. The defending in both is piss poor at best
It was in reference to the whole game today, though those are still some very good passes. He dropped back and acted as a #10, and was MOTM by far.
Edit -
Those are links to the passes.
Those were some quality passes.. If any of those was made by a United player we'd be drooling all over it..
Are you being sarcastic?
First time Messi has had 3 assists in 1 match for Barcelona
The Messi-Tello connection really came to life in the 2nd half. Three direct assists and also played the through ball that created the own goal. All of them originating from deep, the most "10"-alike performance I've seen from him at club level anyway.
First attempt with Adriano (near end 1st half)
Excellently weighted through ball to Tello, difficult angle
Through ball to Tello leading to 1-1 (Juanfran og., cut from gif)
Assist to Tello, 2-1 [near perfect weight, cutting through 3 Levante players]
Assist to Tello, 3-1 [excellent vision & execution after a trademark run from deep which began with him being fouled around the half-way line and playing a quick 1-2 with Sergi Roberto(?) which was cut from the gif unfortunately]
Assist to Tello, 4-1 [lobbed over the back five, great finish too]
The 3-1 one is my favourite (also because of part that came before the start of that gif, which I described), the keeping was a bit suspect for the other ones, but frankly Messi has seen far better passes not converted into goals so deserves some luck on that front.
Tello is an interesting enigma... clearly not as rounded as the players in front of him in the picking order, but offers Barça something different in attack, which would surely work most of the time against the smaller teams given the right service (and could be a handy plan B in certain match scenario's). It also helps that he plays the perfect position/role for Messi's trademark through ball (diagonal or near-diagonal from R to L inside the full-back).
First attempt with Adriano (near end 1st half)
Excellently weighted through ball to Tello, difficult angle
Through ball to Tello leading to 1-1 (Juanfran og., cut from gif)
Assist to Tello, 2-1 [near perfect weight, cutting through 3 Levante players]
Assist to Tello, 3-1 [excellent vision & execution after a trademark run from deep which began with him being fouled around the half-way line and playing a quick 1-2 with Sergi Roberto(?) which was cut from the gif unfortunately]
Assist to Tello, 4-1 [lobbed over the back five, great finish too]
The 3-1 one is my favourite (also because of part that came before the start of that gif, which I described), the keeping was a bit suspect for the other ones, but frankly Messi has seen far better passes not converted into goals so deserves some luck on that front.
Tello is an interesting enigma... clearly not as rounded as the players in front of him in the picking order, but offers Barça something different in attack, which would surely work most of the time against the smaller teams given the right service (and could be a handy plan B in certain match scenario's). It also helps that he plays the perfect position/role for Messi's trademark through ball (diagonal or near-diagonal from R to L inside the full-back).
Will be a great playmaker if/when his legs go.
Probably the best "creative" passer in the world.
I remember reading his mega-thread in barcaforums and they were saying he's a superior passer to Xavi and Iniesta. High praise.
I think he is too, he has developed into an awesome one. He can retain it like they do but his creative edge is on another level.
Yeah, late in the match Tata switched to a bit of a 4-2-3-1 and Leo was basically playing from a deeper role since Caparros' tactics were all about taking space away from him in that final third
All I've ever said about Tello too, he gives the team something different, unique really. No one has his pace in the squad and he's a good enough finisher that he certainly deserves to have more minutes than he has gotten (Least in the squad). There remains a real risk he could be moved in summer.
Best creative passer in the world.
I've always said he's a better passer than Xavi and Iniesta. His pass for Villa's 2nd in the 5-0 humiliation was unreal. It's not only the vision but the weight on the pass is often absolutely perfect.
Xavi rarely plays any risky passes forward the way Messi does though he's capable. A few years back under Pep they were drawing or losing at home v Malaga I think and Xavi played an absolute stunner of a pass to Dani Alves who set up Messi for a tap in. One of the best passes you'll see.
Xavi rarely plays any risky passes forward the way Messi does though he's capable. A few years back under Pep they were drawing or losing at home v Malaga I think and Xavi played an absolute stunner of a pass to Dani Alves who set up Messi for a tap in. One of the best passes you'll see.
He played the same ball every time, and the right back couldn't pick it up. Once that ball and run are made, you're fecked. As Kevin would say: Exquisite play, a stroke of genius from an artist.
And as Ray Hudson would say: Like a Jedi knight, nah, better than that, a Templar knight! Merciless, like Kathy Bates with that sledgehammer in that movie, remember that Misery? That's what Messi was like, he pulled a sledgehammer out.
When his speed goes he is going to be just as devestating in midfield.
This is why I see him as a better player than Ronaldo. Sure Ronnie is an excellent forward, but he could not do the things Messi does in the passing department.
This is why I see him as a better player than Ronaldo. Sure Ronnie is an excellent forward, but he could not do the things Messi does in the passing department.
Watching those 3 clips, from one player, in one game... When was the last time you seen a United player make a diagonal run in behind the defence of that kind, and get picked out with the through ball or ball over the top?
To be fair, Kagawa was doing it last night. The passes that is
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