I'm sure the saints did at one stage have a former barca player. I think Archibald brought over Victor Munoz the current manager of Getafe. Strange times! Caniggia ended up at Dundee!
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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Harald Brattbakk is the best player ever to play in Scotland.
Facht!
Facht!
He also starred in lots of 80s movies.
FACHT!
FACHT!
Best player to play in scotland?
That would be Oleg Salenko
Nah, feck off!
Clearly harald Brattbakk, with Egil Østenstad a close 2nd.
I remember Harald banging in 4 against Kilmarnock
Anyway, topic is Messi. Can he go down as a great, do you think he will?
I remember Harald banging in 4 against Kilmarnock
Anyway, topic is Messi. Can he go down as a great, do you think he will?
At such a young age, he's already shown himself to be one of the most able players to have ever played football so I'd say there's every chance of it happening.
Honestly, does anyone actually come close at the moment? Ronaldo of 2006/07 was good, but even he wasn't near the level Messi is at now.
If you saw Maradona play you must know how good he is. And I'm sorry but Messi is good but he isn't near that yet. Even Ronaldinho at his best wasn't. Dude, the man used to fill stadiums the size of OT at only training! Even the great Pele never did that. I'm not limiting Messi. Just trying to make people a bit more realistic with their hopes for him. The only way anyone can ever be better than Maradona is to be Maradona with a stronger right foot to go with the left one. I expect that may never come to pass in our life time.Yet to even do that eh?
He's only bloody 21!!!
At this stage of his career, Ronaldinho was still at Gremio. About to join PSG, but supposedly considering the option of moving to St Mirran: http://soccernet.espn.go.com/archive/scotland/news/2001/0330/20010330smfcsronaldinho.html. He had played only a handful of games for Brazil, none yet in a World Cup
Maradona was still in Argentina, and had yet to feature in a World Cup for his national side
Give the guy a chance, and stop putting limits on how good he can be
I think the fact Real Madrid haven't gone for him will ultimately prove he isn't on the very top bracket of winger with Ronaldo or Pennant
Real Madrid never bought Pele, Maradona, Cruyff, Best, Charlton ...
How many people saw Maradona play when he was 21? How much of the Argentine top division were they showing in Europe back then Rubberman? He'd yet to play in a World Cup either, so how many of his relatively few international appearances had you seen him in?
Absolutely ridiculous. Maybe he won't be as good as Maradona, it's hardly a stick to beat someone with is it. But to deny he can ever be as good... just daft. For someone with Messi's talent, the skys the limit. If you can beat players all day long without them getting anywhere near you, score goals for fun, and consistently be the difference between your team winning and losing, just how much better do you actually need to be?
If Messi repeated this seasons form for the rest of his career, he wins several titles and European Cups, and he guides his nation to a World Cup success - all of which are highly possible - you'll have a hard time denying him his rightful place amongst the greats to grace the game
He hasn't done that yet because he's hmm, umm... 21
Brad, it is the Rubberman.
Don't fall into the trap or you will lose your mind.
Don't fall into the trap or you will lose your mind.
I've already out argued the toss with the Rubberman, he refused to talk with me for a long time after it!
My greatest achievement on this place to date. Not many achieve that honour
My greatest achievement on this place to date. Not many achieve that honour
From reading Maradona's book I've always assumed he was a bit of a slow starter considering how good he got, I'm sure he said Boca snubbed him a few times before signing him and then his time in Spain was a mixed bag. His Wiki say's he banged in 40 goals in Argentina one season but Messi is a very mature footballer. I'm guessing Maradona probably had a lot more talent than Messi in some regards given the era he played in but it's possible that Messi is a more mature all round footballer than Maradona was at his age.
Maradona's exploits as a 21 year old are well documented. I don't see what Maradona playing in world cup has to do with how good Maradona was period. It seems you've forgotten what he could actually do with a football. And from all accounts he could do that even when he as below 20 years of age.
No one is using it as a stick to beat anyone with. If you can't see how ridiculous t is to claim unequivocally that Messi will eventually become better than Maradona when even now he isn't even yet near what Ronaldinho was at his best. Then there is nothing further to discuss frankly.
Watch some footage of Maradona playing once again. Then it will become clearer.
So you really think I'm denying that he will ever have place amongst the greats in the game
Like Maradona is the only great that ever played.
What does his being 21 have to do with him being as good as Maradona? A player who by age 20 already had 5 years of professional football experience and over 143 goals to his name? Not to mention the many assists he must have had in that period?
Messi is a fantastic talent in did and shoudl go down as a world great if unless something catastrophic happens to him to derail his career. But to take it for granted he will defintiley reach or surpass Maradona's ability is truly jumping the gun.
Yes Maradona was great but you can't really compare his stats at the same age as Messi as he hadn't left a second rate football league whereas Messi has continually put up impressive numbers and performances in one of the toughest leagues in the world.
Oh yes, the Rubbermans come out fighting!!!
Well documented... by all accounts...
You never bloody saw him when he was Messi's age!
You're having a moan about Messi not being as good as Maradona, not even as good as Ronaldinho. He's only fecking 21 for crying out loud! Give the lad a chance, give him time to get even better, give him time to win major trophies at the very top level of the game. Then you can make your absolute statements
p.s I love how you saying Messi will never be as good as Maradona becomes, in your mind, me saying Messi will definately become better than him
Well documented... by all accounts...
You never bloody saw him when he was Messi's age!
You're having a moan about Messi not being as good as Maradona, not even as good as Ronaldinho. He's only fecking 21 for crying out loud! Give the lad a chance, give him time to get even better, give him time to win major trophies at the very top level of the game. Then you can make your absolute statements
p.s I love how you saying Messi will never be as good as Maradona becomes, in your mind, me saying Messi will definately become better than him
I saw Maradona at 22. And he was the best player in the world. Ahead of Platini, Zico and others of their ilk. That said, he's(messi) better than Ronaldinho ever was.
Oh yes, the Rubbermans come out fighting!!!
Well documented... by all accounts...
You never bloody saw him when he was Messi's age!
You're having a moan about Messi not being as good as Maradona, not even as good as Ronaldinho. He's only fecking 21 for crying out loud! Give the lad a chance, give him time to get even better, give him time to win major trophies at the very top level of the game. Then you can make your absolute statements
p.s I love how you saying Messi will never be as good as Maradona becomes, in your mind, me saying Messi will definately become better than him
Check this site I am sure you can help yourself.
Try in HMV his whole career right from Argentinos juniors bundled in a four DVD pack. But you must need a DVD player.
Silly...Maradona wasnt a slow starter by any stretch of your imagination. He broke in '77 and by '79 he was already head and shoulders above Zico as the best South American footballer, In 80 he has already overtaken Rumminegge and was rated as one of the best players in the world still playing in South America.
His stint at Barca was also phenomenal except the media wasnt big to hype up bit part footballers and glorify every other trick and gaol as it easily happens these days.
Check the goal he scores around the fourth minute and his passing range and awareness when he was barely 23 years old.
Try some more clips to check the punishment he got in Spain, a treatment that would've floored the likes of Messi or Fat Ronaldo to retirement in six months. Its better to watch his full videography DVD in Spain that runs for more than two hours, according to that he scored 38 goals from 58 matches with 41 assists, playing as a midfielder there , fcbarcelona site says 45 goals. Not a mixed luck by any standards except Barca didn't win the league for all obvious reasons.
As for Messi, how ever he's good, even if he wins more he would never become as good as Maradona, the skill level is simply not there.
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Zico on Maradona
Check this interview from Zico.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/misc/newsid_1645000/1645581.stm
-¿Se acuerda de algún partido en particular?
"Me acuerdo de uno en Argentina, cuando avanzaba por la derecha y la pelota se iba. En eso, Maradona gira la cintura, pasa la pierna izquierda por detrás de la derecha (rabona) y la pone en la cabeza del jugador que estaba en el área. Sólo necesitó empujar la pelota al gol.
Es un jugador que tenía mil recursos, mil posibilidades de juego, no usaba la pierna derecha, pero lo que hacía con la izquierda valía por todo".
Zico says some thing like how Maradona uses his waist to maintain the balance when shifting the ball across his either feet while passing and concludes even if he cannot use his right foot much, but can do anything with his left. Maradona can see fifty ways of passing the ball that other players normally can but can still pull out the unexpected.
He's far more better footballer than England fans have seen in the 86 WC.
Check this interview from Zico.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/hi/spanish/misc/newsid_1645000/1645581.stm
-¿Se acuerda de algún partido en particular?
"Me acuerdo de uno en Argentina, cuando avanzaba por la derecha y la pelota se iba. En eso, Maradona gira la cintura, pasa la pierna izquierda por detrás de la derecha (rabona) y la pone en la cabeza del jugador que estaba en el área. Sólo necesitó empujar la pelota al gol.
Es un jugador que tenía mil recursos, mil posibilidades de juego, no usaba la pierna derecha, pero lo que hacía con la izquierda valía por todo".
Zico says some thing like how Maradona uses his waist to maintain the balance when shifting the ball across his either feet while passing and concludes even if he cannot use his right foot much, but can do anything with his left. Maradona can see fifty ways of passing the ball that other players normally can but can still pull out the unexpected.
He's far more better footballer than England fans have seen in the 86 WC.
Word Vijay that's why I find the comparisons with players from different era completely ridiculious.
Maradonas stint at Barcelona was phenomenal eh...
Players today don't get the treatment they did in the 80's...
Everything these days is over-glorified and over-hyped...
All tripe if you ask me
Players today don't get the treatment they did in the 80's...
Everything these days is over-glorified and over-hyped...
All tripe if you ask me
We all saw his ability when he played against us. Granted he tore us whenever he had the ball at his feet, yet he wasnt able to create chances or win the match as his team mates didnt support him much, never ever the case with Maradona... he got bunged up only if he lost interest. An inform Zidane, Ronaldo(Brazilian) or a Messi can raise the level of the team as a whole, but cannot win leagues or World cups all by themselves with mediocre footballers...Maradona can.
21... he's fecking 21...
Its a matter of making a judgement there, there are always video clips and tapes for you to refer. Football has reduced from a full contact sport to a more poofy version with attacking players getting more protected. Tackling from behind constitued a direct red in USA 94, it resulted in more goals compared to some nasty football we saw in Italia 90.
For the start Andoni Goikotoxea "the butcher from Bilbo" openly challenged Maradona in the media, vowing to break his legs,followed it up with a nasty tackle in the middle of the pitch that took Maradona out of the sport for nearly five months and all he got was a yellow card. Dont think Messi or anyother modern day prima donnas would've survived had they been marked by a defender of Gentile's calibre.
He's only 21 alright..I'd give him that.
Maradona himself said that Messi could become better than him. It is possible, no-one is saying it will happen just that it is a posibility. We are talking about the greatest player to ever play the game in Maradona and to even have a player where it is a posibility that he could surpass that is remarkable enough.
If you could combine him with Tevez, then maybe he could become as good as Maradona. Nah, not even then. Anyway, he's not at Fat Ronaldo's level pre 98, yet. Nevermind talk of the greatest player to grace this earth.
i agree with Vijay
Maradona wasn't human, Messi has a long way to be compared with him
Maradona wasn't human, Messi has a long way to be compared with him
Maradona: "Messi the new Maradona? I hope so, in fact I want him to become even better than me. Everyone will benefit if he does," added the former Napoli star. "I really hope Messi is not just the new Maradona, but that he is even better than me."
This season so far Messi has 20 goals and 10 (direct) assists in 22 apperances. Comparisons to THE Ronaldo are valid enough, considering Ronaldo was an out and out striker and Messi is more in the mould of a play maker his contribution has been nothing short of phenomenal so far this season.
This season so far Messi has 20 goals and 10 (direct) assists in 22 apperances. Comparisons to THE Ronaldo are valid enough, considering Ronaldo was an out and out striker and Messi is more in the mould of a play maker his contribution has been nothing short of phenomenal so far this season.
Well documented... by all accounts...
You never bloody saw him when he was Messi's age!
That's obvious Brad. That is what "Well documented" means. I've watched enough documentaries about Maradona from his early days at Boca. If you think for one second that euaivalent to saying I watched Maradona when I was like 3 years old then you're an complete jester.
Oh please!
I'm not the one moaning. It's you moaning that "its ridiculous" to say it's unwise for some one here to claim he is definitely going to be better than Maradona in the future, going by his current stage of development. Cry out loud all you want. Maradona was onc ehis age too. & at that age was far better than Messi is. This is all well documented. You can try to argue with such historical fact all you want. Be my guest. I didn't create it.
I don't have to give him time to to know Maradona had far more talent than he possesss. A man of whom it was said could do with an orange what the great Zidane could do with a ball! Which says it all!
Now quit moaning about Messi being given a chance. No one has taken his chance from him you silly git. Just saying it is to early to declare with absolute certainty, like one fella on here was doing earlier, claiming that the kid is likely to become better than Maradona, is just urging perspective on over the top claims. Nothing more nothing less.
Seriously you are mad. First you falsely claim that I'm saying Messi will never be a great. Now you want to claim I think it's you who said Maradona wll become better than Messi. It seems you forgot you were defending Frankly Vulgar's statement. Not your own.I love how you saying Messi will never be as good as Maradona becomes, in your mind, me saying Messi will definately become better than him
My statement was that he "could" go down as better than maradona nothing more and nothing less. Look at the opening post in this thread if you want to have a moan about someone making a statement.
Everyones favourite spanish journalist said today that at 21 Messi has surpassed maradona at the same age.
I really think the signs are there for Messi. He like Maradona won the u20s world cup being named player of the tournament and picking up the golden ball. He is putting in performances that are getting standing ovations from opposition fans.
He'll fill stadiums for exhibition matches just like Maradona did if he keeps going the way he is.
Another point to make is that Messi seems alot more on the straight and narrow than Maradona. Not to say that Maradona didn't basically live, breath and eat football but he did have patchy stages in his career and he did suffer serious injuries.
Anyway my point is it "could" happen, no-one has said it will just that it's possible.
Everyones favourite spanish journalist said today that at 21 Messi has surpassed maradona at the same age.
I really think the signs are there for Messi. He like Maradona won the u20s world cup being named player of the tournament and picking up the golden ball. He is putting in performances that are getting standing ovations from opposition fans.
He'll fill stadiums for exhibition matches just like Maradona did if he keeps going the way he is.
Another point to make is that Messi seems alot more on the straight and narrow than Maradona. Not to say that Maradona didn't basically live, breath and eat football but he did have patchy stages in his career and he did suffer serious injuries.
Anyway my point is it "could" happen, no-one has said it will just that it's possible.
That puts it all into perspective nicely.
Dude Maradona filled stadiums during training session on his own. Without team mates and not merely in exhibition matches. That take some doing and some beating or equalling even.
To be fair to Messi has has suffered with injuries too. & he will definitely have a patchy stage in his future. All top pros usually do. Thing is though he has the potential to surpass Maradona or who ever's achievements but he doesn't possess the talent set to go down as better than Maradona. Who was truly a one off. No one has filled stadiums no his own sicne he did it. & I will be shocked if anyone of us on here sees another player who will in, our life time.
As if. I for one would love to see anyone produce the mesmerizing ball use Maradona could do, while I'm an adult able to digest every morsel of it with understanding and glee!But I'm yet to see anyone capable. People like Messi now and Ronaldinho at his best where just one part of Maradona's skill set. For Diego was the master of unpredictablity, a player like Messi who could do the same thing over and over with out anyone stopping him, possessing possibly the most potent football brain ever ala Cruyff and a player with atheltic prowess despite his small size.
That is the only reason I find it hard to ascribe to the view Messi will possibly one day be considered better.
You can't catagorically rule it out.
Pele was the greatest player to ever play the game and his best years were probably in the 60s. Maradona comes along and is the first player to be compared to the great Pele, some think he is even better and his best years were probably in the 80s. I imagine at the time when he was 18/19/20 people said he was brilliant but not comparable to Pele, it takes a career to earn that sort of respect.
Maybe every 20-30 years you do get a player of such quality, i mean it must happen at some stage and for me personally Messi is as close as i've ever seen to someone who could be comparable to these players.
Pele was the greatest player to ever play the game and his best years were probably in the 60s. Maradona comes along and is the first player to be compared to the great Pele, some think he is even better and his best years were probably in the 80s. I imagine at the time when he was 18/19/20 people said he was brilliant but not comparable to Pele, it takes a career to earn that sort of respect.
Maybe every 20-30 years you do get a player of such quality, i mean it must happen at some stage and for me personally Messi is as close as i've ever seen to someone who could be comparable to these players.
What I'm ruling out, Frankly Vulgar, is he ever being better. For neither Pele himself or Best or Cruyff or Di Stefanio had Maradona's level of ability. So are not even considered better, But both Pele and Di Stefano achieved far greater things in their overall careers. So are rightly considered greater.
Thus I believe Messi has a chance of achieving more in the sport than Maradona ever did. Which would make him greater. But not the better player
Thus I believe Messi has a chance of achieving more in the sport than Maradona ever did. Which would make him greater. But not the better player
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