The only way one could argue that the keeper does not stand a chance is if you argue that he saw it very late due to Benzema barely jumping and turning away from the ball. Either way one of the two are at fault and the mistake was costly.
Lionel Messi
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Here's Palop (Sevilla) not getting beat from a Messi freekick last weekend
Fact is, Casillas has been in somewhat uninspired form for Madrid for a while now and their ability to defend setpieces, with him setting the walls etc has been poor. It's about 10 years since I last heard any significant criticism from the Madrid press of San Iker and he's getting criticised now.
His fault last night? Not really, it's an excellent freekick. Was it saveable by one of the best in the world? Well yes, there was a time when Casillas was delivering those kind of saves regularly. Certainly, if his reaction time and agility are fading then he could be sliding down the rankings soon.
Anyway, back to Messi. Good reactions and positioning for the first. Great freekick for the second. Not a great game from him but still a matchwinning (or at least Liga winning) sort of performance in front of goal.
Fact is, Casillas has been in somewhat uninspired form for Madrid for a while now and their ability to defend setpieces, with him setting the walls etc has been poor. It's about 10 years since I last heard any significant criticism from the Madrid press of San Iker and he's getting criticised now.
His fault last night? Not really, it's an excellent freekick. Was it saveable by one of the best in the world? Well yes, there was a time when Casillas was delivering those kind of saves regularly. Certainly, if his reaction time and agility are fading then he could be sliding down the rankings soon.
Anyway, back to Messi. Good reactions and positioning for the first. Great freekick for the second. Not a great game from him but still a matchwinning (or at least Liga winning) sort of performance in front of goal.
Agree entirely on Casillas.
I have seen a few Madrid games this season, and he's been underwhelming.
Look at the Ajax game, the City game in CL and the Valencia and Getafe in La Liga.
man that's harsh, thought he really dominated second half
thought this was rather good the other week too
thought this was rather good the other week too
If anyone was comparing then Mata/de Gea vs Messi/Casillas match ups I'll say this:
Casillas' view was blocked, de Gea's wasn't, and
Messi's kick was faster and had a lower trajectory.
Could it have been saved? Possibly, but the keeper would have had to have been cheating to the wall side, which really isn't the idea. Alternatively, the keeper would have had to have guessed to get a jump on the shot, which he wouldn't have seen coming off the boot.
It was a very good free-kick.
Casillas' view was blocked, de Gea's wasn't, and
Messi's kick was faster and had a lower trajectory.
Could it have been saved? Possibly, but the keeper would have had to have been cheating to the wall side, which really isn't the idea. Alternatively, the keeper would have had to have guessed to get a jump on the shot, which he wouldn't have seen coming off the boot.
It was a very good free-kick.
An error is an error, doesn't change whether it's Leo or anyone else. A great fk is just that, a great fk. Rubbishing the world's most successful keeper over the last 11 seasons for not playing behind a 5 man wall, is nothing short of lunacy
What else does your crystal ball tell you eh? Apparently, you read people's minds rather than evaluating evidence which explains that utter absence of logic in breaking down the fk and deeming it Casillas' fault
Game is full of cynics, even among fans
It's pathetic to wanna discredit the FK's quality.Messi hit it well and the rest is history
Saying Casillas is at fault for this goal is really stupid.
You could just as well blame Benzema for not jumping high enough and letting the ball sore over his head.
The wall was in the right spot and Casillas was in the right position to cover his side.
Did he react a moment to late?
Probably but that happens in football all the time and can't be classified as a mistake and we don't even know when Casillas was able to see the ball.
You could just as well blame Benzema for not jumping high enough and letting the ball sore over his head.
The wall was in the right spot and Casillas was in the right position to cover his side.
Did he react a moment to late?
Probably but that happens in football all the time and can't be classified as a mistake and we don't even know when Casillas was able to see the ball.
Clasico stats
Top Scorer
1. Di Stefano 18 in 30 matches
2. Messi 17@22
3. Raul 15@37
8. Cronaldo 10@16
x. Ronaldinho 5@8
x. Rivaldo 5@12
x. Maradona 4@5
Top Assists
1. Messi 10
2. Molowny 9
3. Xavi 8
x. Cronaldo 0
Casillas at fault?!
Obviously people here don't realize two factors that are important in these situations:
1- When did the keeper see the ball first?
2- Did he guess right?
Don't compare Casillas to De Gea, compare him to the big Dane.
People don't realize that freekicks are kind of mini-penalties. The keeper has to make a gamble sometimes. The difference, people tend to consider the keeper at fault when he guesses wrongly in a freekick but not in a penalty.
Casillas saw the ball late, and he didn't want to make a gamble moving before seeing the ball (which could leave him embarrassed if the ball turned out to be heading the other way), he just waited until he saw the ball (the gamble here was "come on, he can't hit it from that distance that accurately, with enough power", or at least "I'll take that risk", which didn't turn out well for him.
In the other freekick, De Gea started moving BEFORE the ball was hit, which was also a gamble he made, because if the ball was going in the other direction he would have been wrong-footed and it would have been easier to score, but his gamble paid off, as the ball was heading exactly where he thought it would, which is why he saved it. Had the ball gone the other way in both freekicks we would be talking about great positioning from Casillas, and poor positioning by De Gea (like the case with Schmeikel in the freekick against Bayern).
Obviously people here don't realize two factors that are important in these situations:
1- When did the keeper see the ball first?
2- Did he guess right?
Don't compare Casillas to De Gea, compare him to the big Dane.
People don't realize that freekicks are kind of mini-penalties. The keeper has to make a gamble sometimes. The difference, people tend to consider the keeper at fault when he guesses wrongly in a freekick but not in a penalty.
Casillas saw the ball late, and he didn't want to make a gamble moving before seeing the ball (which could leave him embarrassed if the ball turned out to be heading the other way), he just waited until he saw the ball (the gamble here was "come on, he can't hit it from that distance that accurately, with enough power", or at least "I'll take that risk", which didn't turn out well for him.
In the other freekick, De Gea started moving BEFORE the ball was hit, which was also a gamble he made, because if the ball was going in the other direction he would have been wrong-footed and it would have been easier to score, but his gamble paid off, as the ball was heading exactly where he thought it would, which is why he saved it. Had the ball gone the other way in both freekicks we would be talking about great positioning from Casillas, and poor positioning by De Gea (like the case with Schmeikel in the freekick against Bayern).
He could also see where Mata was going to hit it as from what I can see the Mata freekick was from wider so he was able to angle his wall in a way where he could see Mata taking the freekick and like you said able to move early.
My point is the likelihood of Messi going the other way is almost non-existent given that, as far as I'm aware, he's only scored once directly from a dead ball into the far corner (against Atletico in February) during his career. That's because (a) he does not possess the power necessary to drive it straight into the far corner, and (b) it takes an exceptional once-in-a-blue-moon display of accuracy to find the far top corner from further than 20-25 yards (see the Atletico example, or Beckham's against Everton).
I think "people" know what a free kick is. The comparison to Basler's free kick is pointless since it obviously took a massive deflecton.
Casillas actually did take a couple of steps to the left before the kick was taken. He then took another couple of steps before diving and there was still a huge gap between his hand and the post. He could have started a couple of feet to the left and still be able to cover the right side.
Also, you don't have to think that either it's an amazing free kick or shitty goalkeeping. It is possible to say that the free kick was fantastic but that Casillas' positioning wasn't great.
It was a fantastic goal people. Nothing more to analyse over here. Move on.
Placed well with just about enough spin, pace and bend on the ball.
Placed well with just about enough spin, pace and bend on the ball.
You might wanna reconsider using of the word "obviously" here. (I also suggest that you watch the replay again)
And my point was Casillas had to move before the kick was taken to have any chance of saving it, which means he had to gamble really to be able to save it.
Also important to mention here (like JazzG has pointed out) the role those three Barcelona players (in the wall) played in preventing Casillas from seeing the ball. Chelsea didn't do that in the other free kick.
Oh and Casillas was just standing where he was supposed to stand.
The thing is, if the keeper is wrong-footed you don't have to hit it with that great power really or place it in the absolute far corner to be able to score. Basler's freekick is again an example here.
And if Casillas' fault is that he had to analyse all the freekicks Messi has taken in his career and base his decision on that, then this could be debatable. But IMO that's too difficult for any keeper to do.
OK fair enough, for some reason I had a very strong recollection that i was deflected. I don't think it helps your argument though.
Yeah but he did move, he took a couple of steps to the left before he saw the ball so he would have been flat-footed if it had gone the other side anyway.
If there were 10 people in the wall, he wouldn't stand directly on his right post. If it's forcing him to be in the wrong position someone has to break up the wall.
He took 3 steps to the left and dived and still only made it about two thirds of the way across the goal.
See
so pathetic. There are a handful of players who have the power to do that frequently, it's not a slight on Messi. Also comparing a moving ball to a set piece? Really?facepalm
How short or slight a player is can have feck all to do with how powerful a shot they possess.
David Silva had an absolute bullet on him back in Spain, something we strangely haven't seen much of in the PL.
David Silva had an absolute bullet on him back in Spain, something we strangely haven't seen much of in the PL.
What a useless discussion going on here.
Was a good if not brilliant free kick and not really a mistake from Casillas.
Could have saved it but so are so so many freekicks.
Was a good if not brilliant free kick and not really a mistake from Casillas.
Could have saved it but so are so so many freekicks.
That's because any post that has even the slightest relation to either Messi or Ronaldo has to come with a disclaimer.
You think that Basler's freekick has nothing to do with my point (
) (and that it obviously took a massive deflection).. You shouldn't facepalm anybody in this thread.You think that Basler's freekick has nothing to do with my point (
I explained why it didn't have anything to do with your point and I also admitted that I was wrong on the deflection.
You came into the discussion by continually asserting that we don't understand what a free kick is.
You think that Basler's freekick has nothing to do with my point (
facepalm
No shades of grey here, just black and white hyperbole. You're more relentlessly defensive than GlastonSpur.
It's a good point because when you get close to the edge of the box, the mini-penalty scenario is more pertinent. For another example, look at this one below:
The difference for me is distance: Messi's free-kick (from 27 yards) is not really comparable to Basler's (from 19-20 yards) or Rivaldo's (from 22 yards).
That and the fact that Casillas actually guesses correctly but still doesn't get near it.
But Rivaldo's shot was a LOT weaker than Messi's, which means if that beats the keeper, a stronger shot from 5 yards farther can also beat him..
And this is another proof.
Also, looking at the freekick from the second angle (behind the goal) gives you a better view from Casillas' perspective.. I honestly don't think he had a chance there unless he commits to the left side before seeing the ball.
Also notice that moving in that direction has more to do with your commitment (whether you really gather momentum in that direction) than how many steps you take in that direction. Casillas didn't gamble because he didn't commit himself to the left side before he saw the ball, i.e. had the ball been going to the right side he wouldn't have been wrong-footed there, because he didn't gather any real momentum in the other direction.
In the Basler free-kick, you're talking about wrong-footing the goalkeeper though. That doesn't happen from 30 yards, irrespective of the additional power, unless the keeper's asleep. I'm not sure how relevant that Ronaldo free-kick is, given that Messi just isn't going to strike a ball in the same manner. My original point was that the only Barcelona player 'capable' of doing what Ronaldo did there was Dani Alves, and he wasn't even on the pitch.
Boy, that escalated quickly.
This is wrong. If you're really wrong-footed then it will take you a LOT of time to recover to head in the other direction. You CAN be wrong-footed from 30 yards out. Ronaldo's freekick is an example of that, regardless how the ball is kicked, and Ronaldo's shot wasn't hit harder than Messi's.
FCBarca being a condescending twat as always in a thread about anything Barcelona related. Nothing to see here, move along people..
If he's being a condescending twat about Barca then we must all be condescending twats about Utd.
Just read through his posts. Its not about him arguing Messi's corner. Its the belittling rhetoric, constant use of words like "preposterous", "ludicrous", "ridiculous" and dumb smilies like "" and "" when he quotes anyone who dares question that Barcelona and Messi are brilliant and perfect in every way.
If anyone else does the same with the same consistencty when arguing about United, then yes, they are condescending twats, but I dont feel theres many on here like that.
" and "" when he quotes anyone who dares question that Barcelona and Messi are brilliant and perfect in every way.If anyone else does the same with the same consistencty when arguing about United, then yes, they are condescending twats, but I dont feel theres many on here like that.
Maybe he should feck off to the nearest Barca forum then
He's been infracted for the way he has argued some of the things in here. He's a decent poster IMO, so let's just leave it at that and move on.
FCBarca is a good poster, leave him be.
I still think Casillas could have done better on the free kick mind you.
I still think Casillas could have done better on the free kick mind you.
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