Lionel Messi

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Sublime free kick and some dazzling runs to open up space and make chances from nothing.

Can't believe people are blaming Casillas for that goal too, bet you weren't blaming the keepers when Beckham was scoring those, or when Ronaldo was hitting free kicks that went right through the keeper!
 
LTS10 said:
Sublime free kick and some dazzling runs to open up space and make chances from nothing.

Can't believe people are blaming Casillas for that goal too, bet you weren't blaming the keepers when Beckham was scoring those, or when Ronaldo was hitting free kicks that went right through the keeper!
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I would definitely blame the keeper in those situations.
 
I don't think Casillas is in the wrong position. He has a 5 man wall to cover the left hand side of the goal.

Sometimes you have to applaud the freekick. Messi got it over the wall and down in time to hit an area of the goal that the best goallkeeper in the world couldn't get near.
 
LTS10 said:
Sublime free kick and some dazzling runs to open up space and make chances from nothing.

Can't believe people are blaming Casillas for that goal too, bet you weren't blaming the keepers when Beckham was scoring those, or when Ronaldo was hitting free kicks that went right through the keeper!
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I can understand the "blame" but I'm not sure it's warranted even if I thought it was strange myself. I find him to be too much to the right considering how centered that free kick was. It wasn't exactly brushing up against the post yet Casillas wasn't close at getting a hand on it.

I think he positioned himself there purposely thinking if the ball comes in his vicinity he would definitely save it. If Messi would hit it like he did he wouldn't stand a chance anyways.

You notice later on in the game he positions himself in the same way when Messi hit a free kick over from a similar spot.
 
Gio said:
Iker's positioning is fine if there's a far post threat to consider. But with Alves off the pitch, Barcelona didn't have a single player who could drive a hard effort towards the far post. It was inevitable it was going over the wall.
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Yeah, because that's what goalkeepers do in professional football - set up a 5 man wall and simultaneously cover that same side of the goal, leaving the other half wide open :rolleyes:
 
LTS10 said:
Sublime free kick and some dazzling runs to open up space and make chances from nothing.

Can't believe people are blaming Casillas for that goal too, bet you weren't blaming the keepers when Beckham was scoring those, or when Ronaldo was hitting free kicks that went right through the keeper!
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Perhaps I've got unrealistic expectations of some keepers, but Mondragon's positioning here was too generous:



FCBarca said:
Yeah, because that's what goalkeepers do in professional football - set up a 5 man wall and simultaneously cover that same side of the goal, leaving the other half wide open :rolleyes:
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Nobody's suggesting he should stand at the near post. It's just about adopting a common-sense approach by taking a more central position, given the two players that were standing over the ball. Because ultimately Casillas doesn't get anywhere near what was a well struck free-kick.
 
I'd love to see evidence of world class keepers defending a fk behind a 5 man wall with any sort of consistency. It's a preposterous assertion
 
FCBarca said:
Yeah, because that's what goalkeepers do in professional football - set up a 5 man wall and simultaneously cover that same side of the goal, leaving the other half wide open :rolleyes:
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Even with the added momentum of taking a couple of steps to the left before the ball was hit, there's a still a gap of a few feet between his hand and the post as the ball crosses the line. He was too far right, probably because he couldn't see past the barca players in the wall.
 
Gio does have a point though. Remember DDG's wonder save against Mata last season, he made sure he was in the right position so that he could get across because that was always likely to be where Mata put it.
 
all i'm saying is you won't see too many other players score free kicks like that and have them nit picked!

Not sure anyone's nit picking Ronaldo's first goal which although well struck, still beat Valdes at the near post with him getting a touch to it.

I think its harsh, he whipped it in with good pace, more pace than I think Casillas thought possible without hitting the wall.
 
FCBarca said:
I'd love to see evidence of world class keepers defending a fk behind a 5 man wall with any sort of consistency. It's a preposterous assertion
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You're the only one banging on about him standing at the near post behind the wall. All I'm suggesting is he assumes a more central position given the accuracy, rather than power, that Messi and Xavi possess.
 
fair enough Gio.

Must admit in the numerous games I have been too, especially sitting behind the goal, I've often looked at the keepers position and free kicks and thought to myself 'holy shit, hes given him far too much to aim for'. But free kicks are rarely scored, I think its a gamble they take with how hard it is to beat the ball, get the pace on it and get the accuracy all at the same time.
 
It's not even gambling. It's playing the odds. It only makes sense. So many players simply go for the corner that the keeper is standing in. Wasn't it Rooney that scored from a free kick that way? Keeper started to move to the other corner but guessed wrong.
 
Snow said:
It's not even gambling. It's playing the odds. It only makes sense. So many players simply go for the corner that the keeper is standing in. Wasn't it Rooney that scored from a free kick that way? Keeper started to move to the other corner but guessed wrong.
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Yeah it was one of his free kicks in the 8-2 against Arsenal last season. He put the first free kick in the far corner though, hence Szczesny went that way again.
 
If I was a goalkeeper I'd be disappointed with that. Even if you discount the positioning he was very slow getting across his goal. Compare this to the following positioning and reaction time:

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Especially considering Messi's was half a yard inside the post and at a far, far easier height to deal with (granted Messi's was arguably more powerful).
 
but at the same time De Gea is already moving before Mata strikes it.

What if Mata had done a Rooney and curled it to the other corner? He'd have been disadvantaged and proper gotten criticised for messing up
 
LTS10 said:
fair enough Gio.

Must admit in the numerous games I have been too, especially sitting behind the goal, I've often looked at the keepers position and free kicks and thought to myself 'holy shit, hes given him far too much to aim for'. But free kicks are rarely scored, I think its a gamble they take with how hard it is to beat the ball, get the pace on it and get the accuracy all at the same time.
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As you said though, it's a well struck free-kick, plenty of dip - even starting more centrally, Casillas may not have got across in time. He was more at fault during the previous game with his wall placement.
 
LTS10 said:
but at the same time De Gea is already moving before Mata strikes it.

What if Mata had done a Rooney and curled it to the other corner? He'd have been disadvantaged and proper gotten criticised for messing up
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He's still closer to the far post than the nearer post when the ball is struck, although agreed his momentum would be against him. But bear in mind the ball would have to travel further to go in at the far post, which would give him more time to adjust his positioning.

The difference is Casillas is showing 3/4 of the goal to his nearer post, whilst being in a position to catch the ball if it is struck toward the far post. If he takes up that position he has to start moving toward his near post before the ball is struck to have any chance of getting near it.

I'd say any 'keeper would be disappointed to be beaten half a yard from their post at that height and from that distance (although Benzema is also to blame to be fair, barely jumping and turning his back on the ball and if you are being kind you could argue because of this the 'keeper saw it very late).
 
In Casillas' defence, that De Gea stop was a fecking miracle save. We're still talking about it now...that's how good it was.

Messi's freekick was excellent, and the Barcelona players in the wall made it difficult. Messi is definitely the type of player to try for the other corner - that finish outside of set pieces is his speciality - so you can forgive Casillas for not fully committing to the one side. Granted that you could say the wall could've done a bit better, but it genuinely had the perfect height and level of dip (just over the wall, straight back down whilst curling) to make it hard for the keeper. It never reached the height that Mata's did.
 
Gio said:
You're the only one banging on about him standing at the near post behind the wall. All I'm suggesting is he assumes a more central position given the accuracy, rather than power, that Messi and Xavi possess.
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No less ridiculous the number of times you try to rephrase it. It's pure fantasy to suggest Iker was poorly positioned. 5 man wall with both Xavi & Leo standing over the ball, you play the percentages and the reality is that it would take an exceptional fk to beat a world class keeper from there - simple as.

But anyone can be a cynic


finneh said:
Especially considering Messi's was half a yard inside the post and at a far, far easier height to deal with (granted Messi's was arguably more powerful).
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Traveling faster and in the air for less time, no one was going to save that even if Iker was as long as De Gea
 
FCBarca said:
No less ridiculous the number of times you try to rephrase it. It's pure fantasy to suggest Iker was poorly positioned. 5 man wall with both Xavi & Leo standing over the ball, you play the percentages and the reality is that it would take an exceptional fk to beat a world class keeper from there - simple as.

But anyone can be a cynic




Traveling faster and in the air for less time, no one was going to save that even if Iker was as long as De Gea
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How are you even claiming bullshit on other posts, while you just make it up as you go? How are you certain about this? :lol:

Bad man BarcaFC :D
 
the comparison with De Gea is silly anyway.

That was a jaw dropping save and its not like it was routine and you see it every week.
 
finneh said:
If I was a goalkeeper I'd be disappointed with that. Even if you discount the positioning he was very slow getting across his goal. Compare this to the following positioning and reaction time:

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Especially considering Messi's was half a yard inside the post and at a far, far easier height to deal with (granted Messi's was arguably more powerful).
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De Gea can see exactly where Mata is aiming it as he has a direct view of Mata as soon as he takes the kick, so he moves early. Casillas only sees the ball after it has gone over the wall hence why he is slower to react.
 
FCBarca said:
Obviously, some fail to understood what proper positioning is in the first place

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It's shoddy positioning, there isn't even an argument for it. He didn't get close to the freekick, his footwork was poor and his leap was too early (largely due to footwork). For a goalkeeper as good as Casillas he should be stopping those 100/100, theres no excuse what-so-ever. By the time Messi strikes the ball he should be in the center of his goal, he's still walking as the ball comes over the wall and as such he gets it massively wrong. If Scott Flinders doesn't get there then fair enough, but someone as experienced and talented as Casillas? His reaction alone tells you he fecked up.
 
thats bollocks. If you want to be that criticial you could pretty much pick apart the keepers performance from every free kick ever scored.
 
Personally I thought he should have been 1 or 2 more steps to the left, but it was still a really good free kick. If anything I thought Casillas was slow getting across, and for a goalkeeper of his quality, he'd definitely be disappointed that he didn't save that. If you look at him he doesn't even commit his arm out the whole way, he sort of just gives up on it.
 
LTS10 said:
thats bollocks. If you want to be that criticial you could pretty much pick apart the keepers performance from every free kick ever scored.
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No, some are hit with enough accuracy/power/close range that they are very unlikely to be saved, that wasn't one of them. Van Der Sar at his best conceded very few freekicks because he read the situation well, he made up for his lack of agility (compared to someone like Casillas or De Gea for example) by his size, but it was his positioning and speed of thought that made him so good at keeping them out. Casillas makes up for being small by being very quick on his feet and positioning himself correctly, this time he didn't and it cost him big time. His "head in hands/lying on the floor" reaction means he know he made a mistake, he'll have expected himself to save that.
 
Dion said:
No, some are hit with enough accuracy/power/close range that they are very unlikely to be saved, that wasn't one of them. Van Der Sar at his best conceded very few freekicks because he read the situation well, he made up for his lack of agility (compared to someone like Casillas or De Gea for example) by his size, but it was his positioning and speed of thought that made him so good at keeping them out. Casillas makes up for being small by being very quick on his feet and positioning himself correctly, this time he didn't and it cost him big time. His "head in hands/lying on the floor" reaction means he know he made a mistake, he'll have expected himself to save that.
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Really I think you could make a great case arguing he was far too slow to react for the Nakamura free kicks he conceded.
 
LTS10 said:
Really I think you could make a great case arguing he was far too slow to react for the Nakamura free kicks he conceded.
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Whether I agree with that or not doesn't matter, I never said Van Der Sar was flawless.
 
The only point against Casillas with that FK is that he didn't extend his stretched arm fully. Watch the replay again.
 
Avatar said:
The only point against Casillas with that FK is that he didn't extend his stretched arm fully. Watch the replay again.
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This is also true but he wouldn't have saved it even if he did, the damage was already done.
 
Dion said:
It's shoddy positioning, there isn't even an argument for it. He didn't get close to the freekick
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Based on that 'logic', every goal attempt should be saved


Dion said:
his footwork was poor and his leap was too early (largely due to footwork). For a goalkeeper as good as Casillas he should be stopping those 100/100, theres no excuse what-so-ever. By the time Messi strikes the ball he should be in the center of his goal, he's still walking as the ball comes over the wall and as such he gets it massively wrong. If Scott Flinders doesn't get there then fair enough, but someone as experienced and talented as Casillas? His reaction alone tells you he fecked up.
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He lept too early yet didn't get to the center of goal while walking to get there? :wenger:

A cascade of poorly organized thoughts that amount to the same thing - you should watch more football and understand how fks are defended before making such outlandish claims
 
The amount of swerve on that just when passes the wall is tremendous. Could blame Casillas for initial positioning, myabe, but I doubt he would've saved it either way.
 
FCBarca said:
Based on that 'logic', every goal attempt should be saved
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No, I'm afraid it doesn't :lol:

FCBarca said:
He lept too early yet didn't get to the center of goal while walking to get there? :wenger:
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He leaps too early in terms of his position, he dives from the center of the goal when he should be diving from further to his left because if he'd have been quicker with his footwork (or been better positioned to start with) that is where he'd be. It really isn't a difficult concept to grasp whether you disagree with it or not.

FCBarca said:
A cascade of poorly organized thoughts that amount to the same thing - you should watch more football and understand how fks are defended before making such outlandish claims
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:lol: and you should stop being so defensive about anything that makes Messi sound remotely less than perfect. Yes, he hit a freekick that could and should have been saved. Any normal Barcelona supporter would be happy that it wasn't, not you though. Your clusterfeck mind sees it as a slight that anyone could be at fault when Messi does something. Get over it or more than likely someone will change your username again.
 
Dion said:
This is also true but he wouldn't have saved it even if he did, the damage was already done.
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True. Ball was fast and curved. think Casillas arm froze 'cause as you said he knew the damage was done.
 
Mourinho said it should be forbidden to discuss who of Ronaldo and Messi is the best player on the planet because as far as he is concerned they both from another planet.
 
As far as he is concerned, Ronaldo is best player of all times, and he is the best manager of all times.
 
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