Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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What if he scores 150 goals in the next 2 seasons, winning 2 liga's and CL's. What happens then?
I'm 20, I love Senna, Ali and the likes but I wasn't alive or old enough to see them at their pomp. Messi is the best I've seen so far. (I admire Bolt and Schumaccher as well)
Cal? is seething 
Anyone doubting Messi's claim to greatness within the all-time standings is doing so not on the basis of 'needs to win a World Cup', but 'needs to inspire a lesser team to glory'.
Lots of people are doubting it on the basis of 'needs to win a world cup'.
The 'needs to inspire a lesser team to glory' is a silly one. The best players play in the best teams. The very best stand out even in such company. This is part of what made Zidane great. Messi stands out even more surrounded by other world class players.
If he wins the World Cup with the current Argentina that'll be two flies with one stone then, they're atrocious. Only Messi and Agüero are consistently above average.
IMO di maria, higuain and mascherano are above average too
When you unpick the rationale behind resorting to a 7-game tournament once every 4 years, it's about doing something exceptional outside of the Barcelona comfort zone. Those who maintain Maradona was a cut above are doing so on the basis that he didn't play in such an extraordinarily dominant club side, and had to inspire lesser teams (albeit still very talented ones as the single-handed thing can be overplayed) to new heights.
I meant in performances.. since Maradona took over I've not seen Higuain have two good games in a row, he scores a hat-trick one game and does absolutely piss all the next 5 games. Di Maria is also completely inconsistent. Fair point on Mascherano maybe.
But Argentina's offense was like a bunch of individuals improvising under Maradona and Batista. Now they actually seem fluid in their counter-attacks. The biggest problem though is that offense and defense are completely disconnected from each other, and that's why their main tactic seems to be to simply try and outscore the opposition. Won't work against the likes of Spain or Germany.
This is true, but Maradona's Argentina (and Napoli, too) were an extremely solid side that wouldn't fall apart if he didn't play at his best. Can the same be said of the current side? 4-3 is a great score line for the spectators, but if Messi had been just a little less efficient it would have been a thrashing.
I dislike the whole 'must imitate to surpass' notion. We're not story-telling here. If we were going into that, why did Maradona fail to inspire at Barcelona surrounded by better players than at Napoli? Or why didn't he score 80 goals in one season? Or win the CL just once, let alone multiple times? Or win 3 titles on the trot? It goes both ways. Messi is a very significant factor, maybe the most significant, in Barcelona having been so dominant.
It's weird that having been the standout performer for one of the best sides ever is actually being held as a mark against him in such comparisons.
Their achievements are completely different. Messi doesn't need to trod the same career path as Maradona. On the contrary, where he is now he has a scene for achieving far greater things. And on club level, has already done so.
Obviously Messi is the best player ever. He's worth 3/4 players to a team. It's just a shame he won't come to United or play in a different league and replicate that form. I don't think anyone should say Messi don't produce for his country, I think it's the other way around. They don't produce for Messi. The only question really is can he beat this season next season? I wouldn't back against him. The Spanish League is too easy for him and Barcelona have enough possession in European football for him to continue to be effective 9.9/10
On the subject of elevating a lesser team, have any of the great players done this apart from Maradona? I didn't see Zidane winning the Champions League with Osasuna.
Cal? could make a fecking man made island out of all those straws he's clutched over the years.
He'll probably win Balon D'or again and prove that he's a great player playing for a great side, but can't hack it for his national side.
Ever heard of Michael Jordan?
Very nice, but I question why the CB doesn't come out to try and close him down sooner.
Probably wouldn't have made much difference mind you.
How come you're the last one of the caf not to just admit that Messi is THE best player of today's football Cal ?
It's called having an opinion, the last time I checked, we don't live in totalitarian states.
If he continues scoring goals like he has been over the past three years, no one will be able to question him being the best ever, irrespective of how Argentina perform in their tournaments. There's something about watching a player like Messi doing it over and over again, week in-week out, that will drive home the point. Even you, with your Ronaldo fanboy antics, will find it difficult pretend Messi isn't the greatest.
The most interesting thing about if Argentina win anything in the next few years will be seeing what wall Cal puts up next.
I was genuinely asking if he had heard of Michael Jordan, maybe he doesn't watch NBA?
You're really weird you know that ? Totalitarian .... wtf
Cal? Has got it completely loopsided.
I enjoy using my civil liberties to laugh at how Cal? exercises his freedom of speech. I wouldn't have such rich amusement in a totalitarian state.
Don't worry mate, I'm firmly on your side in the Cristiano/Messi debate! You're not alone :P
in the same era that maradona won the scudetto with napoli, verona and sampdoria won their first scudettos
1984–1985 Hellas Verona
1986–1987 Napoli
1989–1990 Napoli
1990–1991 UC Sampdoria
so it wasnt that extraordinary for a lesser team to win the serie A
Yeah. Not quite the same mythology built up around Elkjær being a one-man team with Verona when they won the title.
American commentators.
Going absolutely mad @ 7:20.i know! maradona was brilliant, but had he not won the scudetto with napoli, he would still have been a brilliant player
American commentators.
Great performance. The commentator, too.
"Thank you God! Thank you God! Thank you God for Lionel Messi!"
American commentators.
They are brilliant in that video.
Great performance. The commentator, too.
"Thank you God! Thank you God! Thank you God for Lionel Messi!"
that and"Messi won it in dying minutes..won it in 83rd min"
That's like them fan zone people as actual commentators
Exactly.
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