Lionel Messi

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marcosdeto said:
if neither of you understand why i said it was a lucky goal, i'm sorry, i can't give another reason

sorry

btw, amol. i may be biased, but you are the one that said that all messi did in the game was hit the post
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Dude, this is so disappointing from you. To hide behind "if you don't understand, sorry" when you've just been called out for a nonsense argument... I thought you were a bit classier than that
 
Homeomorphic said:
j0ccW.gif
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That cracks me up for some reason. :lol:
 
Skorenzy said:
You shouldn't assume things when you haven't looked into them...
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It isn't really that curious at all because this is possibly the most attacker friendly era in decades.
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I don't think that this is the language of anyone making assumptions. I quite clearly leave open the possibility of there being information to counter what I am saying and also use the word 'decades', which to my mind is best used to describing a period of time ranging from 20 - 50 years.

The response that you jumped on was an impulsive one to Deto after a quick fired post exchange and was ill considered.

I never referred to the season that you and Brwned supplied stats for. I referred to the 1961 season when Pele scored 62 in 38 giving him his highest gpg ratio of 1.63gpg.

That said, thank you for posting the more in depth information on the Brazilian league, it sheds more light onto the easily accessible raw data. Care to share your sources?
 
Gazza said:
Dude, this is so disappointing from you. To hide behind "if you don't understand, sorry" when you've just been called out for a nonsense argument... I thought you were a bit classier than that
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so the only way you will think i'm classy is to admit that it wasnt a lucky goal, wich i think it was, and i explained why

so be it
 
Brwned said:
You're being ignorant for the sake of being ignorant though, you know it makes it more difficult for the attackers than it does for the defenders, you just want another reason to laugh at people making any kind of argument for any great not named Messi. Strange stuff.
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Yeah thats it :lol:

I don't need any reason, people can poke holes or find fault whichever way they want.

No offsides probably made it a tad easier for attackers but you never read about that do you?

and if people don't think smacking the ball on a crap surface doesnt make it tough for goalkeepers, then they probably never played football on a crap pitch.
 
Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I don't think that this is the language of anyone making assumptions. I quite clearly leave open the possibility of there being information to counter what I am saying and also use the word 'decades', which to my mind is best used to describing a period of time ranging from 20 - 50 years.
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I was actually responding to the following passage that you wrote:

"[...] tell me with a straight face that this isn't the most attacker friendly era in the history of Spanish football."

Which it factually isn't.


Jimy_Hills_Chin said:
I never referred to the season that you and Brwned supplied stats for. I referred to the 1961 season when Pele scored 62 in 38 giving him his highest gpg ratio of 1.63gpg.

That said, thank you for posting the more in depth information on the Brazilian league, it sheds more light onto the easily accessible raw data. Care to share your sources?
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I've carried out for some while research on some notable players throughout history, specifically on their appearance and scoring records (assists too where possible) and the competitions they played in. Incl. Pelé, Gerd Müller, Cruyff, Maradona of past greats, and Messi, Cristiano Ronaldo, Rooney of current players (also have the European records of Raúl and RVN).

For Pelé I've summarized the seasons 1957-1962 so far. The sources used include the book "Pelé: O Supercampeão" by Orlando Duarte (a sport journalist in Pelé's era), which details every goal ever scored by Pelé (incl. club friendlies) and RSSSF which details historic results of competitions.


My main point on Pelé is merely that his domestic stats are inflated because of the relative weakness of the state championships (both by contemporary and modern standards). That's not to say that Brazilian football was weak; it wasn't, as proven by its international success. Neither were they defensively inept as is often shouted about by the modern generation. It was simply a tactical climate perfectly suited for attacking football (the so-called 'W-M formation', a 3-2-5, still being in use, but especially 3-3-4s and 4-2-4s being popular in 50s/60s Brazil).

But back to my point:
*Pelé's career record in the Paulista (state championship of São Paulo): 412 apps, 470 goals (1.14 gpg). Mythical.
*Pelé's career record in inter-state/national championships (against the top teams of his own and other states): 193 apps, 119 goals (0.62 gpg). Impressive, but mortal.

His Copa Libertadores record is quite impressive as well (15 apps, 17 goals), but not unmatched by contemporaries like Alberto Spencer, José Sanfilippo or his own team-mate Coutinho. He was also only once top scorer in a season.


If there had been a real national league from the start of Pelé's career instead of at the end of it (1971), I highly doubt he would have maintained a scoring average similar to that in the Paulista.
 
apotheosis said:
I don't like these types of comparisions, they mean feck all really.

Messi is playing in an era where almost every surface he steps on is perfectly suited to playing football, the much lighter balls are moving all over the place, the boots are custom fitted to give the player something individually ideal for his own feet, the defenders are also no longer not allowed to knock the striker 3 feet in the air every time he challenges.

Pele was playing in a sporting equivalent of studded toe-tectors, with a ball heavier than Messi, on far inferior surfaces and was regularly being kicked to feck, and i mean kicked to feck!

How can one era be reasonably compared to another when few of the conditions from one era bear any real resemblance to the other?
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You've fallen into a logical trap there.

How exactly do modern footballers gain an advantage over past players if the conditions within their respective era's are the same for everyone?
 
The touch for that hattrick goal was absolutely stunning. To control the ball at that pace and to knock it so perfectly into his path to set up the shot from so far away the goal...magic.
 
Cal? said:
I pointed out earlier in this thread that Messi isn't very good at penalties and most his fanboys told me that I was just clutching at straws. Now we can all see how his penalty taking has cost Barca their final chance of winning a major trophy.

It makes a huge difference if your team go through anyway after you missed the penalty. Non?
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funny how you disapeared from this thread Cal?

just before ronaldo missed that penalty against bayern munich :lol:

we miss you cal, we really do :angel:
 
Dan said:
Has he scored any goals for Argentina this season?
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5 goals and 4 assists in 7 appearances for Argentina this season.

edit: and still 2 club games (league + cup final) and 2 international games (WC qualifier + friendly v Brazil) coming up
 
Homeomorphic said:
I'll just leave this here.

messi02-rmczoxc.gif
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My favourite part of that is the first touch using his right foot and then shifting it onto his left. That and the shuffle to get away from the 4th man before slipping the ball into the runner. Messi is unmatched.
 
Dan said:
I assume those Argentina goals are included in the 72?
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No.

50 goals in La Liga
14 goals in Champions League
2 goals in Cop del Rey
3 goals in Spanish Super Cup
1 goal in European Super Cup
2 goals in Club World Cup
=
72 goals in all competitions for FC Barcelona

+

2 goals in 2014 World Cup Qualifiers
3 goals in friendlies
=
5 goals for Argentina in 2011/12


So 77 for club and county
 
I feel weird saying that I feel sorry for someone who earns more than € 10 million a year. But I feel kinda sorry for Ronaldo. He broke an all time La Liga record last season, scoring 40 goals. And guess who totally annihilates that record only a season later? :lol:
 
Pogue Mahone said:
Anyone know where his number of assists this season sits in the grand scheme of things.

His goal-scoring record is ridunkulous but what makes it absolutely mental is the fact he's such a creative player too.
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According to wiki 28 this season
 
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