68 goals..............
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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The finish for the third goal was exactly what I do in Fifa12 in that type of situations. Obviously more difficult to execute in the game, but still a nice finish.
68 goals and a ridiculous no. of assists is amazing in a season.
68 goals and a ridiculous no. of assists is amazing in a season.
How do you do that in FIFA?
Just press the chip button gently when one on one with the goalkeeper. Works for me anyway.
After which their tactics started to work very well.
There was nothing lucky about Ramires' goal mate. After half time Chelsea had Barca figured out tactically. Even with a man less.
I think its all too easy for us to overlook giving them credit and saying Barca bottled it. For me Cheslea's second half performance was almost akin to what United did in Turin for 2-0 down. The simply refused to give in till they had taken the the final place themselves.
Messi tbf was rubbish compared to the Messi we know. I suspect that is what he meant
And bang goes your credibility in this discussion. fecks sake marcos.
i'm not going to start an argument about the meaning of the word "lucky"
but an offensive player that in 225 games has only 37 goals, and scores a lob like he did against barcelona in the 46 minute of the first period, when all the chances till that moment were for barcelona, in my book, is lucky
Messi's third tonight was quality. Who even thinks of that? 
He has scored more goals than Pele in a season but consider this
In 1961 Pele scored a mind blowing 62 goals in 38 games meaning that he scored an average of 1.63 goals per game.
Messi has scored 68 in 52 this year meaning that he has scored an average of 1.31 goals per game.
Scoring ratios tell you more and Messi has not matched Pele in that respect yet.
Yes, Pelé's was a better ratio in his 67-goal season too (in 1957), and he was only, what, 16-17 when he acheived that? Astonishing.
I wasn't claiming that Messi's feat surpassed Pelé's really, though. I never watched Pelé, and have no idea of the standard of competitions he competed in. Just thought it was an interesting little fact haha.
right, but you also should take in acount the average goal for game in the 60s and now
games that ended with over six goals werent unusual then
Does anybody know Against who pele scored so many goals??
Against shitty Brazilian teams.
What we do know is that in 1962 and 1963 Pele won the Intercontinental Cup with Santos, playing against the then European Champions, in 62 Benfica and in 63 AC Milan. The finals were a two legged affair, played home and away of the represented teams and in 3 games against Europe's best Pele scored 7 goals (he was injured for the second game against Milan and subsequent play off match after the first two games ended in a aggregate draw).
Add that to his world cup record and I think that it is fair to say that Pele was capable of replicating his domestic form against the best that there was anywhere.
Curious how Real Madrid have beaten the all time La Liga team scoring record this year then isn't it and yes that includes the 60's!
It isn't really that curious at all because this is possibly the most attacker friendly era in decades.
That you have Messi's rival breaking the all time La Liga individual scoring record last season only further adds weight to my argument that there has never been a better time for attackers in Spain.
when pele was playing for santos (1960/70), 10 copa libertadores were played, he won two, and it wasnt uncommon for the south american team to beat the european
estudiantes won three
peñarol won three
independiente won two
santos won two
so if pele was the hero for santos, who was the hero for independiente, estudiantes, peñarol, nacional and racing that won the same title as santos?
1971 Nacional (URU) Estudiantes (ARG)
1970 Estudiantes (ARG) Peñarol (URU)
1969 Estudiantes (ARG) Nacional (URU)
1968 Estudiantes (ARG) Palmeiras (BRA)
1967 Racing (ARG) Nacional (URU)
1966 Peñarol (URU) River Plate (ARG)
1965 Independiente (ARG) Peñarol (URU)
1964 Independiente (ARG) Nacional (URU)
1963 Santos (BRA) Boca Juniors (ARG)
1962 Santos (BRA) Peñarol (URU)
1961 Peñarol (URU) Palmeiras (BRA)
1960 Peñarol (URU) Olimpia (PAR)
You are going off on a tangent now that is not relevant to what I was saying.
Please refer to my above post and tell me with a straight face that this isn't the most attacker friendly era in the history of Spanish football. (If you are playing for the disproportionately financially favoured big two)
i don't know, i dont have the numbers, i was trying to google "goal average by decade" but nothing came of
of course that real madrid and barcelona are breaking goal records, but that's because of messi and ronaldo, not because this decade has been particullary abundant in goals
anyway, pele was an excepcional player, and i'm not trying to compare him with messi, but the goal average he achieved was also due to playing in a high goal average era and because many of the games he played were against very weak opposition
I think it is partly to do with that but they are also aided by modern footballs protection of the attacking players and the massive imbalance in Spanish television revenues that are allowing Barca and Real Madrid to race ahead of the chasing pack. Did you see how much more Barca and Real are paying wages than any other football teams in Europe?
The 60s was a goal crazy era but I think that we are in a goal crazy era at the moment. Look at Higuain's record, Mario Gomez's record and Van Persie's record!
In 57/58:
Goals per game; goals for.
(English) First Division - 3.72 gpg; Manchester City 2.48
La Liga - 3.24 gpg; Atletico Madrid 2.6
Serie A - 2.88 gpg; Juventus 2.26
Ligue Un - 3.28 gpg; Stade de Reims 1.85
Campeonato Paulista - 3.46 gpg; Santos 3.76 gpg
In 11/12:
Premier League - 2.8 gpg; Manchester City 2.4 gpg
La Liga - 2.77 gpg; Real Madrid 3.19 (Barcelona 3.01)
Serie A - 2.54 gpg; Milan 1.94
Ligue Un - 2.51 gpg; PSG 1.89
Pele counts that goal he scored against the jerries in Escape To Victory in his official stats.
When Messi defeats Nazis he can start claiming to be summat special.
When Messi defeats Nazis he can start claiming to be summat special.
You shouldn't assume things when you haven't looked into them...
1) from the start of La Liga in 1929 until 1971 there were between 10 and 16 teams in the league, so a maximum of 18 to 30 games to be played.
2) goal-to-game ratios over 1.00 weren't at all uncommon back then, last season C. Ronaldo and this season both him and Messi have managed this for the first time in a while. (I believe Vieri and Hugo Sánchez are the only others ones to do it after the 1960s)
The 20s/30s/40s/50s and to an extent the 60s are probably the most prolific (recorded) periods of any domestic league in Europe.
3) in response to another of your posts; in Pelé's record-breaking season where he scored 66 goals in 46 games, his team managed 167 goals in all competitions. So very similar to Messi and Barça currently.
However, in the 20-team (state) league he scored 58 goals in 38 apps; Santos finished 1st with a record of 29 wins, 6 draws and 3 losses (143 goals for, 40 goals against, Goal difference of +103 !!), 3 other teams scored 90+ goals that season, the 20th conceded 100.
The only other competition in which they competed that season was the inter-state tournament and a far superior competition in quality, pitting the top 5 sides of São Paulo against those of Rio de Janeiro. Santos finished 7th, with Pelé scoring 8 goals in 8 games.
It's fair to say Pelé's gpg ratio was somewhat inflated by the by modern standards weak state championship. In any case a gpg over 1.00 is incredible enough as it is.
And then of course no-one has mentioned the Müller record, that before always belonged to Ferenc Deák who scored 66 league goals in 34 appearances in Hungary, because of the dubious nature of one of the tournaments that Müller had participated in.
The DFL-Ligapokal (German League Cup), created for the 1972/73 season (if I recall it had something to do with the Munich Olympics) and immediately discontinued until 1997. A tournament featuring 32 teams (first and second tier), 55 games played and 426 goals scored, which would mean an average of 7.75 goals per game (!!).
It's in this tournament that Müller scored 12 goals in 5 games to make it 67 goals in all comps.
ps: I'm not trying to belittle Pelé's and Müller's achievements, far from it, but merely trying to put them in perspective.
The DFL-Ligapokal (German League Cup), created for the 1972/73 season (if I recall it had something to do with the Munich Olympics) and immediately discontinued until 1997. A tournament featuring 32 teams (first and second tier), 55 games played and 426 goals scored, which would mean an average of 7.75 goals per game (!!).
It's in this tournament that Müller scored 12 goals in 5 games to make it 67 goals in all comps.
ps: I'm not trying to belittle Pelé's and Müller's achievements, far from it, but merely trying to put them in perspective.
There's no argument to be had about the word lucky in this case, it is simply a case where you, maddeningly, fail to appreciate a wonderful goal.
Also, please define the goals/apps ratio needed before a player is able to take credit for a goal, as opposed to being "lucky". Ludicrous argument.
You're so biased it's untrue. Tomorrow if Michael Carrick scores a wonderful goal displaying fantastic technique and vision, he's lucky? What kind of strange logic is that? If it was a mis hit you'd have a point but you don't. It's a nonsensical argument.
I'm just seeing these goals for the first time fecking amazing
fecking amazingI don't like these types of comparisions, they mean feck all really.
Messi is playing in an era where almost every surface he steps on is perfectly suited to playing football, the much lighter balls are moving all over the place, the boots are custom fitted to give the player something individually ideal for his own feet, the defenders are also no longer not allowed to knock the striker 3 feet in the air every time he challenges.
Pele was playing in a sporting equivalent of studded toe-tectors, with a ball heavier than Messi, on far inferior surfaces and was regularly being kicked to feck, and i mean kicked to feck!
How can one era be reasonably compared to another when few of the conditions from one era bear any real resemblance to the other?
For me nowadays money has elevated a couple of teams from the most popular leagues to a much higher level than the vast majority of other clubs. It can only mean the competition in general is much poorer than ever before.
30 points seperates the top 2 Spanish clubs from those making up the rest of the league. Similar disparity in England, a decent but hardly vintage Utd side set for a record points total, not because of their greatness, but because of the general weakness of the opposition. I think the all round quality of football teams generally is poorer now than at any time in the 30 years i have watched it. Less great players, less great teams and less varied competition for the biggest prizes.
I'm just seeing these goals for the first time
You're lucky then. Now that I'm here I'll flood this place with gifs.
Then it is also fair to say that both Messi and Ronaldo's La Liga exploits are the result of weak standards of defending in the league coupled by playing with some incredible talents able to spray passes and/or open up the pitch for them to strut their stuff.
Both are excellent in the Champions League where the best clubs compete. I have no doubts the likes of Pele, Maradona, Di Stefano, et al would be destroying La Liga today, and excelling on the continental level too.
These debates are pointless. If either player were a United player, many would argue a different platform. I'm not a Messi fan but the player is brilliant. I'm also not much of a Ronaldo fan since he turned his back on United, the club that built him into the player he is, but he too is brilliant.
Can we not just enjoy the show of two players that will one day be in the argument of best ever?
I love the way people use the quality of pitches and balls used in Peles favour, like it wasnt the same for the defenders and goalkeepers he was up against
I love the way people use the quality of pitches and balls used in Peles favour, like it wasnt the same for the defenders and goalkeepers he was up against
Defenders preferred it that way though. Unlike the attackers, they weren't relying on a good surface. They usually wanted to get stuck in and they'd happily hoof the ball up the field when they had it.
I love the way people use the quality of pitches and balls used in Peles favour, like it wasnt the same for the defenders and goalkeepers he was up against
You're being ignorant for the sake of being ignorant though, you know it makes it more difficult for the attackers than it does for the defenders, you just want another reason to laugh at people making any kind of argument for any great not named Messi. Strange stuff.
Crap pitches are a leveller.
I haven't got a clue about the pitch conditions in Pelé's time but I've watched Sacchi's Milan in the late 80s. The pitches looked far better than most away pitches Messi plays on in La Liga nowadays (especially since most teams revert to "grow and dry the grass" tactics against Barcelona). Osasuna pitch:
Zaragoza took the "grow and dry" tactics to a new level this season when even flowers started blossoming on their pitch:
The San Siro pitch this year also was a potatoe field. Have you seen the Arsenal game?
Most pitches are really in poor condition nowadays. I can imagine that it might have been even worse in the 50s but let's not pretend pitch conditions are perfect nowadays just because we're living in 2012.
Zaragoza took the "grow and dry" tactics to a new level this season when even flowers started blossoming on their pitch:
The San Siro pitch this year also was a potatoe field. Have you seen the Arsenal game?
Most pitches are really in poor condition nowadays. I can imagine that it might have been even worse in the 50s but let's not pretend pitch conditions are perfect nowadays just because we're living in 2012.
Sorry if already posted:
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1099349-top-5-things-pele-does-not-want-you-to-know
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1099349-top-5-things-pele-does-not-want-you-to-know
Common things....but nice to see all together....albeit on Bleacher Report, a site everyone laughs at.
Though I never realized he was never actually top scorer at least once -_-
Though I never realized he was never actually top scorer at least once -_-
That's how I've felt on the matter for a while. Why is there such a desire to pit one over the other? Doesn't make that much of a difference does it? Should be thankful we're living in a time where we get to enjoy the brilliance of these 2.
If you want to argue, fine but do realize it's just that. An argument. Doesn't change a damn thing yet people get so revved up by it.
if neither of you understand why i said it was a lucky goal, i'm sorry, i can't give another reason
sorry
btw, amol. i may be biased, but you are the one that said that all messi did in the game was hit the post
Who can me a top 10 goal video for Messi this season ? He's scored some absolute beauties
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