Messi is a better and greater player than Ronaldo. And no matter how far your fanboiism stretches, or how many Ronaldo posters you have on your wall, you won't change this.
Clear fact of the day.
Lionel Messi
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Messi is a better and greater player than Ronaldo. And no matter how far your fanboiism stretches, or how many Ronaldo posters you have on your wall, you won't change this.
Clear fact of the day.
All of his goals have come in the past 2 years. During the same time Messi has scored 4 times.
we know that.
it is just he is not so good when he is playing for his country, because of the high standards he sets himself when he is playing for barca.
a prove that even the best in the world needs his side kicks.
Messi is not better than or even as good as Maradona. People have been to quick to say he is perhaps the greatest ever.
No, he isn't.
Lots to prove for Messi yet. It's not just Maradona he has to match IMO. Barcelona do make things A LOT easier to him. But it's easy to forget that he's still only a kid. So much time he has.
Whether Messi does ever break the Argentina curse.
It's a pleasure watching such a great.
Even against uruguay his touch and control of a football was lightyears ahead of anybody on the pitch.
It's a shame he bottled the golden chance to win it, but his assist was sensational.
He may not end up being universally accepted as good enough to sit alongside Maradona and Pele but being the best of his generation is guaranteed.
It's a pleasure watching such a great.
Even against uruguay his touch and control of a football was lightyears ahead of anybody on the pitch.
It's a shame he bottled the golden chance to win it, but his assist was sensational.
He may not end up being universally accepted as good enough to sit alongside Maradona and Pele but being the best of his generation is guaranteed.
Cal? Still refuses to accept it.
It's funny how he reacted when he missed that chance late in the game.He clearly feels the pressure when playing for Argentina
It's pressure he has to deal with, it would make his legend grow to uncontrollable heights of he wins acceptance in Argentina.
For me it shows contrary to some opinions, that he really cares about the national shirt.
To be fair every great player of any sport has deal with it. It is much easier when you're part of a team that keeps the ball almost 3 out of every 4 mins. You miss a chance but another is right around through corner. Messi is clearly the best around and by a good bit but a huge chunk of my opinion on him will be formed by how he deals with things outside a team that's a one off and miles ahead of the rest.
All he's lacking internationally is putting the ball in the net. The rest of his play is still outstanding.
I agree, the genius is still there
the problem is when you score 53 goals in a single season at club level people will rightly question why he's not doing the same for Argentina.
Bendteresque.
Yeah that's surely a part of the problem, but then again, other than the Spanish national team, most other nations (and their star players) have to deal with this issue - players not on the same wavelength. Put it down to national team's not training together enough,etc. etc. its still no excuse. I still think most Argentinian managers just throw the teams out there in the hope 1 of their stars will win it for them and IMO, only when some tactics or structure is introduced, we will see Messi do some real damage for his country.
One thing I have noted about Messi for Argentina though is that, IMO, he ACTUALLY does not play that bad. Yes, he is probably suffering from his own ridiculously high club standards, but other than missing his scoring boots (which is a big thing admittedly), I've seen him set up, literally, chance after chance after chance for his teammates.
It would be interesting if someone could pull his Barca v Argentina assist ratio or "shooting chances he sets up for his teammates" type stats. Irrelevant but interesting.
You see, the problem is you have an inability to understand the difference between opinions and facts.
The number of goals are cold hard facts that cannot be disputed.
Your thinking that he's the best player of his generation is an opinion (shared by many), but not a fact.
If he continually bottles it for his country, it becomes clearer and clearer than Barca (esp Xavi & Iniesta) makes him great, he doesn't make Barca great.
Anyway, before I get blamed for you lot bringing up Ronaldo, I will reply to that other thread if you really want to repeat yourself again.
Cal? he doesn't need to score to play well like your man does these days.
Oh, so now it's blame everyone else for Argentina being crap time.
First, it was all Maradona's fault, now it's the manager again, along with all those crap players he plays with, you know, the likes of Tevez, Aguero, Higuain & co. Funny how they all manage to do okay at their clubs.
In fact you-know-who seems to play quite well with Higuain.
It wasn't like Argentina were up against great sides in the Copa, failing to win at home against Bolivia, Columbia & Uruguay...
Oh, so now it's blame everyone else for Argentina being crap time.
First, it was all Maradona's fault, now it's the manager again, along with all those crap players he plays with, you know, the likes of Tevez, Aguero, Higuain & co. Funny how they all manage to do okay at their clubs.
In fact you-know-who seems to play quite well with Higuain.
It wasn't like Argentina were up against great sides in the Copa, failing to win at home against Bolivia, Columbia & Uruguay...
I've not blamed anybody.
I've just said what is fact. Messi doesn't need to score a goal to have a good game because he's a far more complete player than your man is, who if he's not scoring these days is having a average to very poor game.
Right, so presumably the supposed best player in the world had a great tournament and led Argentina to another QF exit, to go with the one he led Argentina to last year, having played brilliantly for his country in another tournament.
Who do you think should be blamed for Argentina failing so miserably in the Copa America? Surely you agree that a QF exit is a terrible result for a tournament they held at home.
Everybody can see the reason he's "great" at Barcelona and "good" for Argentina, has 2 names and they are called Iniesta and Xavi, they did "great" for Spain ==> Euro and World cups, when Messi just had some good plays but end up with nothing to show, goals or silverware, in another words having Messi at Barcelona is great but they would had won the league and the CL last year without him. Last years title of BPITW was a farse and Xavi should had that.
I never said so, I said he played well.
He didn't against Columbia though.
It's sad that somebody who has 53 goals in one season can't make the scoresheet for his country, but he's never been all about goals unlike your dude. He can do it all in the final third include create for his team mates which he did non-stop throughout the tournament.
Even against Columbia when he was at his worst he still managed to set Lavezzi through on goal.
However goals is still a huge part of the game and somebody of the calibre of Messi should get at least one and he needs to look at what's going wrong here.
He has to share some blame for not taking his golden chance vs Uraguay for Argentina going home although his assist to equalise was something of true ability.
You have made your opinions very clear before my favourite Portugeezer, but he's about to pick up his third bpitw award so cry about it some more....
and how come you lads don't give respect to David Villa,Busquets,or even Dani Alves, Puyol, Abidal etc surely they are making Messi great too?
I guess that's the closest you will go to accepting he's underperforming for Argentina and we'll just leave it at that.
Hopefully he carries his Argentina form to Barca this coming season.
The Maradona comparisons are unfair at this stage. Comparing a player in the early stages of his career to one who's finished is unbalanced. Maradona supporters will always look to Messi's poor international form and then compare it to Maradona of WC '86 when he was 26/27 - Messi is still 24. What people don't say as often is Maradona was wholly ineffective in the '82 WC when he was 22. Messi was 23 in the 2010 WC.
Messi has arguably not reached his peak yet, and that's a scary thought. I don't think the Maradona comparisons will be valid until he's in his 30s. They're similar players, and when Messi takes the league and CL by storm these questions will be asked. It's a sentiment to the player when you hear him mentioned in the same league as Pele and Maradona at such a tender age.
Messi has arguably not reached his peak yet, and that's a scary thought. I don't think the Maradona comparisons will be valid until he's in his 30s. They're similar players, and when Messi takes the league and CL by storm these questions will be asked. It's a sentiment to the player when you hear him mentioned in the same league as Pele and Maradona at such a tender age.
Basically, if Argentina don't win the World Cup in Brazil in 2014, the Maradona comparison is killed off once and for all? Good...
It's all well and good arguing like this, but tomorrow isn't promised anyone.
If you read my post re: the comparisons, you'll see that they were made in the present tense; that is, people have been quick to make these comparisons RIGHT NOW, instead of later. I've not said things like 'he will never' , I've said 'he is not' . Massive difference!
Moreover, it's not I who's making these comparisons, but people eager to promote Messi. So lay the blame on them.
I've always been sceptical and will remain so until I'm comprehensively proven wrong.
Goals are not everything.
People said Rooney was shit in the 08 CL final but did provide the 2 best passes of the game.
I bet if Rooney scored Ronaldo's goal he would have been MOM and it would have been hailed as a great performance.
Ronaldo was wrongly given the MOM in that CL final. Should have been Hargreaves or Vidic.
My point is goals don't give an indication of a great performance.
People said Rooney was shit in the 08 CL final but did provide the 2 best passes of the game.
I bet if Rooney scored Ronaldo's goal he would have been MOM and it would have been hailed as a great performance.
Ronaldo was wrongly given the MOM in that CL final. Should have been Hargreaves or Vidic.
My point is goals don't give an indication of a great performance.
While this is true to an extent, I think 1. it's overplayed - in the same way that saying Messi was poor in 2010 is - as he was very good in the group stages and showed more in his World Cup debut than Messi has in any World Cup game (and maybe any competitive Argentina game) and 2. he wasn't playing in his best position in the same way Messi wasn't. He was poor in the second group stages though and that's all that's remembered, and this alone should show the high standards that all of the best players are held to not just Messi, for all those protesting when Messi is criticised. They're held to ludicrously high standards because they've set ludicrously high standards, because they're ridiculously good footballers. It almost seems like people get offended by the very notion of looking at Messi critically.
It's not Maradona's quality of play that Messi will struggle to replicate in a World Cup IMO, it's the ability to bring a team together and if not that then act as a one-man team on occasion to drive them on. His personality just isn't set up for it, he's the perfect team-mate not the one-man team. I don't know if this prevents him from being the best of the best, if charisma and ego is a factor in being the best of the best (or at least how they're perceived by the general public, in the way that Scholes' personality makes him less headlines and thus maybe less plaudits, or Xavi compared to Ronaldo) as two of the best players to play the game are known for their huge ego. Cruyff too I think? Are there other greats who have a similar humble, unassuming personality?
If he wasn't Argentinian this whole dragging a poor team to a World Cup wouldn't be an issue, though. Because he has these similarities to Maradona people want him to follow the exact same path, tick all of the boxes Maradona did...but then Pele never did this. Pele didn't have to excel in a chaotic team, he didn't have to excel in a team with players levels below him, he just had to be the key part of this wonderfully sophisticated and beautiful jigsaw, like Messi. He wasn't the one who made Brazil tick, he wasn't the sole playmaker in the team, he was just the one who provided that bit of class on top to take them from a team who played beautiful football to a team who played beautiful football and won things. Messi does the same for Barcelona. Even in terms of the role they played there's much more similarity to Pele than there is Maradona, as Pele was a scorer who creates and Maradona was a creator who scored - Messi's much more the former (that's not to downplay Messi or Pele's playmaking, it just isn't as prominent).
There's still much more to come from Messi, he's developed his game in the past few years and he'll continue to do so. Could anyone really have seen him be one of the most prolific players in the game? I don't think so, and I don't think that was just a simple progression that was something he worked very hard on. He's already shown he has the skillset to master every attacking role, now if he can go on to show he has the skillset to master a midfield role then it will open up a new dimension in his game. Maradona in 82' despite possessing a great(er) passing range was more dribbling-orientated in the same way that Messi is now, Pele was the same, so it's not outrageous to think we might to see Messi develop his passing game even more (or simply show more of it) and then those who are firmly in the Maradona side may be a bit less dismissive of the idea.
Hmm, not sure about that. Without Messi (or on the rare occasion he's not on form) they can tend to be a bit toothless in front of goal. They'll still have 75% possession, but they can struggle to convert it into goals.
I'd say Sneijder myself. Was the dominant player in the first Italian team to complete the treble, and likewise for the team that got beat in the WC final. But yes, Xavi would've been next.
Regarding his personality it's obvious for everyone to see that he lack charisma and that he's not a natural leader. If that is good or bad is up to every individual to judge. Even if football is a team sport it's probably necessary to have some sort of aura around you to be a super mega star. To only be the best is not enough. Today a good player is a brand, and that include's more them just kicking the ball in the net.
There are countless of example of this. In football Maradona is the benchmark. You have Michael Jordan and Mohammad Ali. They set the standard and they dominated every aspect of their era. Inside or outside their field they were regarded as global celebrities. Truly world class athlete's like Shaq Attack O'Neil, Kobe Bryant, Sugar Ray and Mike Tyson don't even come close. All of them are super legends but there is only one in each sport who is the Greatest.
Messi is young and have many good years in front of him. Maybe in 10 years we will regard him as the new benchmark, but up til now he's only one of a bunch of the BPITW of his generation.
That's going in my rolodex of Messi/Maradona-distinctions.
I agree with this whole post but I don't think it necessarily takes an expressed aggression or charm to bring people together. Zidane did it through his performances and his aura of greatness. Sachin Tendulkar (cricketer) has done it throughout his career despite being the most soft spoken and modest 'great' you'll find.
Despite Brwned knowing very little about all 3 players.
Ronaldo was pretty sensational in the first half, in my opinion he probably was our stand out player in the cl final.
Great player - but Zidane was the best I've ever seen!
Messi and Romario teaming up and having a bit of fun in a charity match. Nice to see.
He's out there having fun whilst his Barcelona buddies are being molested my Mexicans. Messi to big for Barcelona already?
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