rooney is better than both of them
Lionel Messi
- Thread starter cesc's_mullet
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It is absolutely impossible to say that one is 'clearly' more talented than the other at the moment. To be honest, I've just no fecking idea who is the most gifted out of these two and Rooney.
Like it's been said, if we're talking about physical prowess, Ronaldo is 6ft 2 and built like a brick shithouse. Messi has been given nowhere near the physical advantage of Ronaldo, though his agility is unlike anything I've ever seen. Though I'm sure Messi has put a lot of effort in to get to where he is, it's well documented by the likes of Fergie and other United staff how much work Ronaldo put into developing his skill level, where as Messi was the dog's bollocks right from the offset. Ronaldo has been an absolute professional really in regards to how he has worked on his development, so I'm not convinced this argument works.
What I will argue is that, whilst there is certainly a comparison to be made between the two technically, Messi's ball manipulation, as you call it, is on another level. Ronaldo really does have unbelievable control, though.
I've no idea anymore, I really don't. It's amazing how Ronaldo's adapted to a new league in spite of injury.
Not that I really want to get sucked into this as truth be told I'm not that bothered by who is deemed the best in the world, but that bolded bit is a bit of a contradiction. Messi's agility has a lot to do with his physical build, it's arguable whether he would have the close control and dribbling skills he does if it wasn't for his stature, and lower sense of gravity. If he was built like Crouch for instance, he probably wouldn't have that same ball control and would be knocked off the ball easier. So in a way he has been given a physical advantage.
Oh my, what have i done//
"I hate you because of football"
Never underestimate how serious Messi vs Ronaldo isJust to add another cat to the pigeon basket - talking about first touch is an interesting one. I think Ron's first touch is exceptional - he's a player who can turn a crap pass into a good one, and if he screws it up it's usually because he's tried to do the wrong thing with it. Messi's never struck me in the same way - maybe because he gets fewer crap passes playing for Barca
(though not for Argentina), maybe because he's more predictable in terms of how he'll try to use it. But it's all relative of course, a percentages thing. If you were ordered to bet your house on someone dealing with a ball at shin, knee, hip, chest, head height you'd still be better off betting on them than just about anyone else. Important safety tip - given it's a percentages thing I still wouldn't recommend betting your house.
That's the beauty of football. You make do with what you have physically and adapt to it.
Messi and Ronaldo are very difficult to compare due to how different they are. I know it'll sound biased but taking into account the troubles Messi had as a child it is quite remarkable he has gotten to the top of his field.
In the physical stakes it is not like Messi is a THAT small, he is strong and quick and a better header of the ball than people give him credit for. Also his right foot is slowely improving. Ronaldo on the other hand is freak of nature, barely injured, as quick as anything but he also works as hard as anyone. He is very strong and physical, is a fabulous header of the ball. His mentality for me is his biggest strengh. He wants to be the best at everything and will work harder than anyone to become that.
They are both a lesson to young players about how much you need to sacrifice and how hard you need to work to get to the top. If more british talent had the mental strengh and character of these two players it would make a great difference to home grown tallent in my opinion.
Is you insulting the British mentality you despicable cnut?
not yet.
Just to add another cat to the pigeon basket - talking about first touch is an interesting one. I think Ron's first touch is exceptional - he's a player who can turn a crap pass into a good one, and if he screws it up it's usually because he's tried to do the wrong thing with it. Messi's never struck me in the same way - maybe because he gets fewer crap passes playing for Barca
But it's all relative of course, a percentages thing. If you were ordered to bet your house on someone dealing with a ball at shin, knee, hip, chest, head height you'd still be better off betting on them than just about anyone else. Important safety tip - given it's a percentages thing I still wouldn't recommend betting your house.
Messis first touch is second to none in world football. Anyway having watched the lad for any amount of time should be aware of this.
British are generally very strong mentally, it's the talent bit that's letting most of the footballers down compared to other top footballing nations.
Wow, a post by FV in the Messi thread that I can agree with, what's going on today...
yes lovely Mr Addis my dear i am indeed.
Being British myself i dont see how that is despicable, more realistic.
Wow, a post by FV in the Messi thread that I can agree with, what's going on today...
To be fair, he can make some good posts when he wants to polite and sensible. My main problem with him is that he WUMs constantly.
Wow, a post by FV in the Messi thread that I can agree with, what's going on today...
Meh..
A simple "Ronaldo > Messi" statement from you should turn the tides again, go on you know you want to.
On a serious note, Ronaldo had world class technique and first touch in 2006/07. Somewhere along the line people forgot that and now think that Messi's is better. Clearly it's not true.
It's the work ethic and sacrifice i'm talking about and i doubt many of the youth have it here. You see plenty of talent but in a lot of cases i see it being wasted. Maybe in scotland especially but i do think if more took a page out of the Ronaldo/Messi book of how to be a fecking pro then the kids in this country would be so much better off.
Wow, a post by FV in the Messi thread that I can agree with, what's going on today...
To be honest cal i'm so sick to death of going round in circles and trying to convince people of something they wont be conviced off i'm happy you said that
I no longer feel myself getting wound up about this. I'm over it to be honest and happy to just see how it pans out in the coming years.
Meh..
A simple "Ronaldo > Messi" statement from you should turn the tides again, go on you know you want to.
I'll wait for the opportune moment...To be honest cal i'm so sick to death of going round in circles and trying to convince people of something they wont be conviced off i'm happy you said that
I no longer feel myself getting wound up about this. I'm over it to be honest and happy to just see how it pans out in the coming years.
That's probably why I haven't posted much in this thread for a while...
I've watched him for long enough that I've seen him on bad days as well as good ones.
In fact, given my live match track record with Messi (and incidentally, the other big names like Zidane, Ronaldo I, Ronaldinho etc) the next time United play Barcelona somebody should make sure I get a ticket allocated, as I'm fairly confident I can guarantee that he'll be off form. Betting advisory - even if I get a ticket I still caution against betting the house, as there is always that percentages thing to consider - Ronaldo I at OT comes to mind.
Tbf, the work ethic is there as shown with many footballers in this country such as the likes of Carra, the nevilles, Lampard, Terry etc etc and in terms of sacrifice there aren't that many children that are in a bad state or situation compared to maybe other third world countries where sacrifices have to be made in order to fulfil their talents beyond their reach.
I hope i made sense or atleast i tried to make sense anyway.
Agree with this. How many Scottish players maximise their physical qualities and don't fritter it away on piss-ups and amateur attitudes? Very few - Darren Fletcher's a good model for others to follow. Hell even Kirk Broadfoot is playing three or four levels above his natural ball-playing ability thanks to his dedication to put in the extra work.
Every player takes a bad touch now and again, it can happen after all.
But when you see the 60/70 yard cross field ball fizzing over to messi and ssee him kill it dead with a single touch of his left peg it's pretty impressive. He's also great on the chest, was it against Lyon his first touch off the chest took it over a guys head as he ran towards goal?
ROnaldo has a great touch too, no doubt about that but i just get the impression messis is more natural. Maybe that makes little sense really but it's just how i feel about that area of their games.
But when you see the 60/70 yard cross field ball fizzing over to messi and ssee him kill it dead with a single touch of his left peg it's pretty impressive. He's also great on the chest, was it against Lyon his first touch off the chest took it over a guys head as he ran towards goal?
ROnaldo has a great touch too, no doubt about that but i just get the impression messis is more natural. Maybe that makes little sense really but it's just how i feel about that area of their games.
Ibrahimovic probably tops them all in this department.
I'd say it's the restrictions put on British talent that is the problem rather than the talent itself. In the days of the Busy babes, the best talent was always allowed to gravitate to the best sides freely. Now one has to pay for that to happen due to the 90 minutes rules and stuff. Which really hurts the development of so many young British players IMO.
That's true that your environment plays a bit part but if you look at Brazil for example. How many brazillians get to the top and then let the partying start? It is not always a case of rags to riches and a mentality of being thankful for what you've got.
Exactly, Fletcher is just about the only one. Craig Gordon is a role model in that sense for scotland too. There are too many "what could have beens" in scotland.
I think it's probably simelar in england but maybe due to the comfort of the SPL for these players it is more common as in england you need to be at your best to compete to a desired level in the Premiership.
I agree. Ronaldo's technique has been grossly underrated of late.
Little sense is right, fanboy.
nice try
Agree but Ibra has these wierd off days where he ends up looking foolish. Like he and the ball have fallen out and he's fighting to control it and make it do what he want. However on his good days when him and the ball are friends he makes the rediculous simple.
On a day when Messis touch isnt at it's very best he's still controlling the ball with ease, perhaps not the stone dead first touch but at least bringing it in with relative ease.
I think Ronaldinho has the best touch in world football and then it is Messi in my humble opinion.
Rooney's touch is often undermined, it is one of the best around along with Berbs.
A player whos first touch never gets a mention yet is quite exeptional for me is Francesco Totti.
But i'd agree with you there boss, Ronaldinho seems like his entire body is covered in glue, the ball sticks to him anywhere.
But i'd agree with you there boss, Ronaldinho seems like his entire body is covered in glue, the ball sticks to him anywhere.
Berbatov's touch is great but it gets overrated on here in my opinion, it doesn't compare to Messi,Ronaldinho etc.
Yes Rooney's can get undermined but if you look at the game against Everton you can see why, he's not always consistent.
He's underrated as hell on here because not many people have seen him play, he's been a top quality player for years and as loyal as they come
Some wonder if his loyalty stopped him from being one of the best
I'm not a big fan of Berbatov, but his touch is exceptional, to be fair. Probably the best feature of his game, along with his incredible strength and balance on the ball.
His touch is great but it's overrated because of his style, to the eye it enhances what is pretty standard stuff. Like the ball he brought down last year against City or his assist for Rooney to Hull this season, a different player can bring it down but it looks better when Berbatov does it because of his laid back style.
I don't think his touch is up there with Messi or Ronaldinho.
Absolutely
I see similarities between Messi and Obertan. Obertan must be played on the left, cutting in on his right, just like Messi.
And out of the bloom, Scholesy shows his poweresess once again..
Yes, Ronaldinho, I'm considering that house bet as I type. He can be gloriously velcro like at times.
Yeh, it's due to his superb balance - only Zidane can i remember had such wonderful balance.
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