Ronaldo's clearly the more talented one. Both have worked extremely hard at their game obviously, but in terms of how nature distributed the chips, he has it in his favour.
Lionel Messi
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You are confusing physical attributes with raw talent i think.
After two months of peace, this thread is back with a vengeance
No I'm not. Ronaldo's overall technique, first touch control and ability to manipulate the ball is second only to Ronaldinho.
you're clueless.
You've shown yourself to be the same despicable cnut you've always been. You can make statements yourself about something which isn't black and white yourself and expect people to respect your opinion, because you see yourself as an unbiased, objective poster when in actual fact you're a disrespectful wanker.
When someone else does it though, you assume the role of head-of-dismissal and brush off their opinions because you see them as inferior. It's not even as if someone makes a statement as outlandish as the likes of Scholesy the WUM. In short, feck off.
like i said you're clueless.
It is absolutely impossible to say that one is 'clearly' more talented than the other at the moment. To be honest, I've just no fecking idea who is the most gifted out of these two and Rooney.
Like it's been said, if we're talking about physical prowess, Ronaldo is 6ft 2 and built like a brick shithouse. Messi has been given nowhere near the physical advantage of Ronaldo, though his agility is unlike anything I've ever seen. Though I'm sure Messi has put a lot of effort in to get to where he is, it's well documented by the likes of Fergie and other United staff how much work Ronaldo put into developing his skill level, where as Messi was the dog's bollocks right from the offset. Ronaldo has been an absolute professional really in regards to how he has worked on his development, so I'm not convinced this argument works.
What I will argue is that, whilst there is certainly a comparison to be made between the two technically, Messi's ball manipulation, as you call it, is on another level. Ronaldo really does have unbelievable control, though.
I've no idea anymore, I really don't. It's amazing how Ronaldo's adapted to a new league in spite of injury.
I am not sure many will agree with this. Afterall, we are talking about Messi here, someone who in his own league in terms of talent and performance (top goal scorer, top assist, top dribbler etc).
Let's just say they are both very talented.
For a few weeks.
A couple of weeks ago they were wondering if they dont actually play better football without Ronaldo. I dont think thats ever happened with Messi at Barcelona. He's answered that critisism very well since then. But its still only a few weeks.
Before that he was shoot on sight like he was most of the past 2 seasons.
Yep, that's a bit over-the-top. Messi is arguably better in all those areas.
There are plenty of areas where Ronaldo is better than Messi though.
It is absolutely impossible to say that one is 'clearly' more talented than the other at the moment. To be honest, I've just no fecking idea who is the most gifted out of these two and Rooney.
Like it's been said, if we're talking about physical prowess, Ronaldo is 6ft 2 and built like a brick shithouse. Messi has been given nowhere near the physical advantage of Ronaldo, though his agility is unlike anything I've ever seen. Though I'm sure Messi has put a lot of effort in to get to where he is, it's well documented by the likes of Fergie and other United staff how much work Ronaldo put into developing his skill level, where as Messi was the dog's bollocks right from the offset. Ronaldo has been an absolute professional really in regards to how he has worked on his development, so I'm not convinced this argument works.
What I will argue is that, whilst there is certainly a comparison to be made between the two technically, Messi's ball manipulation, as you call it, is on another level. Ronaldo really does have unbelievable control, though.
I've no idea anymore, I really don't. It's amazing how Ronaldo's adapted to a new league in spite of injury.
I don't actually agree that Ronaldo's clearly more talented. I was wondering if some people behaving the same as before. When I said ball manipulation, I was including the ability to control a ball's flight path and characteristics over medium-long distances as well. I've yet to see Messi consistently make the ball do insane things over that kind of distance. Of course Ronaldo's worked, but you're forgetting that he had immense technical ability from a young age, though Messi was ahead in terms of what he was doing for his age. Skill development happened in terms of completing weak areas of his game, shooting, crossing, free kicks etc. as well as the physical work he put in to increase strength and pace.
Messi has brilliant technique of course, but people tend to assume he's better because he has excellent close control, which is only one facet of technical skill. Using one technical area to automatically give a rating to the whole is short sighted. If you study Messi's dribbling technique closely, slow it down frame by frame you'll see that he doesn't do an awful lot with the ball. The majority of the time, his apparent skill with the ball is an adeptness and feinting and quick change of direction to beat the player. The likes of Kaka have IMO a more graceful and elegant dribbling style, though there's nothing wrong with either method. Both work, and Messi's work best because of his physical advantages/disadvantages. If we were to base a player's technique wholly on dribbling and close control, then Adel Taarabt may be considered a great player.
You can't really separate the two in terms of talent IMO. Just a shame to see that thing's haven't really changed around here.
Over the top? It's a valid opinion. Both of these players have world class technique, some people forget the things Ronaldo can do with the ball because of the way his game has been adapted to be more direct. My point was that anyone can make a claim like that. If someone said Messi is clearly more talented, then would Frankly have said the same thing? Of course not. It's too close to call obviously, but personal bias would have meant he would have abstained from the "you're clueless" comment.
Great post.
Messi isn't flashy and most of his dribbles are based on feints and direction changes thanks to his formidable ability to read the defender.Ronaldo can do more things with the ball (tricks and whatnot) but at the end of the day the style matters little.It's efficiency that is important
It's very, very close. I wasn't trying to suggest that Messi was more talented based on a single facet of his game; in fact, tey're both as complete as each other in their own way, contrary to what people say about Ronaldo being the more complete player. I'd say Ronaldo has slightly better control, better shooting from distance, better free kick technique, and he is obviously a lot better in the air. Messi is a far better dribbler whichever way you look at it, a better passer and playmaker in general, stronger on the ball and is much more likely to dictate the flow of a game, though Ronaldo looks like he's starting to do this once more. The two are pretty much neck and neck when it comes to finishing in and around the box.
Again, there's very little in it and I wouldn't like to say either way anymore, but Messi is far more rounded technically than he is given credit for. He's only associated with his dribbling ability simply because, with the exception of Iniesta and Giggs at his best, he is leagues ahead of everyone else in this department.
Great post.
It helps that he is in a side where isn't the only one who can consistently score goals. At United and for Portugal everyone seemed to have left that duty to him alone. That is the reason his assisting others shrunk from his play.
Messi's dribbling works so well because he has the best close control in the world. He always runs with the ball incredibly close to his feet, which simply makes it easier to change directions, shield the ball at speed, feint defenders and so forth. This is very simple, the hardest ability to master and simply more efficient than anything other style of dribbling, because it is so much harder to defend against.
If there were any others who had comparable close control, they would do the same because it simply works better. Incidentally, the last one who had such close control dribbled in more or less the same style (Maradona), albeit with a better physique.
If there were any others who had comparable close control, they would do the same because it simply works better. Incidentally, the last one who had such close control dribbled in more or less the same style (Maradona), albeit with a better physique.
I'm sure there has been tons of players with similar technique.For instance Savicevic
There are and have been plenty with a similar style. Iniesta is a bit of the same, El Hadji Diouf likewise. None of them have close control of a comparable level though.
you cant really compare them, they are different types of player. Ronaldo relies on his physical prowess equally as much as his undoubted skills. If they were both to receive bad injuries which restricted their pace, who would survive better? Probably Messi.
However, at this point in time, who is the most effective player? Probably Ronaldo
But they're both great players so I don't see why you're wasting your time arguing about this
However, at this point in time, who is the most effective player? Probably Ronaldo
But they're both great players so I don't see why you're wasting your time arguing about this
Yes, he is without doubt the best dribbler since Maradona. I've seen a number of players whose outstanding attribute was manipulating the ball in tight areas - Ronaldinho, Juan Carlos Valeron, Andres Iniesta, Pedro Munitis, the Laudrup brothers - but none to the standard of Messi. Ronaldinho had better technical skills, but was not as capable of the jinking run past a series of defenders (although he was still better than anyone else in the world at it from 2003 until 2007).
would messi have the same impact as ronaldo did over here? can you knock a long diagonal up for messi to win in the air? could messi score the header ronaldo got against roma in rome?
NO
personally i think ronaldo is the better player
Not the strongest line of argument - Maradona wasn't much kop in the air either.
He doesn't overhit the ball when dribbling, but I think you're under-estimating the distance he pushes the ball forward. For example, in his famous goal against Getafe, he had about 13 touches from the halfway line to the shot. 13 touches is not enough if you have the ball very, very close to your feet to carry it the distance he did. If you look carefully, he doesn't touch the ball that often but beats defenders purely from wrong footing them. He's incredibly agile and his speed of thought is lightning quick, so there's no need for him to touch the ball many times.
It makes sense. Why keep the ball so close to you and limit your speed when you can keep it mid-distance and use your agility and experience to beat players by forcing them to make errors with regards to weight distribution on their feet. It's a brilliant technique and it works for him.
What area's would these be? Like his passing that's got worse over the past 3 seasons or to hit a proper free kick over the wall which he's never managed to get down his whole career. His dribbling has got worse as well as he seems to have lost a yard of pace, which fits into the idea that he'll get worse as his pace goes. Look at the way other players like Ronaldo have gone, Henry looks useless now without the pace and he was like a much better version of Ronaldo during his peak.
See his free kick vs Sunderland for a classic curler into the corner.
It's like this guy hasn't watched Ronaldo recently. Yesterday his blistering pace was evident when he chased down a Ramos cross-field pass into space that I doubt anyone on his team would have caught.
Aye, that was incredible, only Walcott is a player who I think could do that.
Henry was still one of the worlds best around 28-29, Ronaldo is not that old. Not to mention the pace argument is absolute rubbish, he looks fantastic at the moment, and if the question of pace does come into it, it won't be asked for quite a few more years.
His free-kicks have actually showed progress over the past few years, compared to when he was talking them 3-5 years, where one in every few would go above the wall, now he is far more accurate.
And you are comparing Henry at his Peak, to Ronaldo now? Even then that's a very fragile argument, that can be broken depending on how you determine talent and performance. You make it sound as if Ronaldo has lost all of his pace at what, 25 years old?
Ronaldo can improve in virtually all areas I would imagine, I don't doubt he could be a little faster, more clinical, and improve on his passing, I can't see why that wouldn't be the case? He's approaching the peak time of his career, and he's playing like a man of fire, so is it really that crazy to assume he will better himself? Hardly. In fact, it's more likely he will increase his ability now, opposed to losing his way, at this point in his career, like you mentioned above.
Not to mention you can increase your ability to many more ways then freekicks and passing.....Already it looks like he has adapted to his 'position' well, and his decision making is better then ever, I would say for a player entering a new league, with the pressures and expectations he has on him, in his first season, with countless stars around him, he is still the outstanding performer.
You don't seriously believe Ronaldo's control is better than Messi's, do you?
That's because both players are actually coming back to something close to their best form.
They're both extraordinary players, but very different players. Which makes the comparisons difficult and highly subjective.
Make a list of attacking attributes and Ron would probably be in the top 10 in the world on most of them but it's not obvious he'd come top on any (heading?) - there are more reliable freekick takers, better tricksters, but no one else has got that range of skills wrapped up in a handy, sprinting 6 foot bundle of muscle. Whereas Messi's an undeniable World number 1 on some of the dribbling, close control categories.
If you get as good as these two it's all about the role they need to play and the performance on the day. It's hard to imagine Messi doing what Ronaldo has done at Madrid, my instincts say Barca and its style get the best out of him, but who knows?
I have a vague idea that Messi would be stunning in Serie A, but might find the PL frustrating - but I doubt we'll get any evidence any time soon. The great ones adapt to almost anything, which is what Ronaldo proved when he came to United and now is proving again with Madrid.
Read again. What I said was partially to see of FV was still acting the prat he used to be like.
They both have world class technique, so either opinion is valid.
What so you make a rediuculous statement to see if i'm acting like a prat?
All i said was that you're clueless, hardly screaming from the rafters and after an opinion like you made is it any wonder people would think you dont have a clue??
If you voice strange opinions then people will comment on them. I said you were clueless, not "a prat", "a disrespectful wanker", "despicable cnut".
In short you pretty much showed yourself to be the prat.
All i said was that you're clueless, hardly screaming from the rafters and after an opinion like you made is it any wonder people would think you dont have a clue??
If you voice strange opinions then people will comment on them. I said you were clueless, not "a prat", "a disrespectful wanker", "despicable cnut".
In short you pretty much showed yourself to be the prat.
I didn't start the insults.
It's pretty clear Messi's ball control's better, so no it's not really a valid opinion.
"I hate you because of football"
good old redcafe.
good old redcafe.No you made a clueless statement and i called you clueless. That's hardly an insult, more just stating the obvious.
Then you went over the top with obscene insults so basically in short you are clueless and also a bit of a twat, congratulations.
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