In settings like locker rooms that sort of 'banter' (i know, the word makes me shudder too!) is expected though, isn't it? I don't think that can really be used as an example of poor little Lionel being bullied.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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He's not the one crying about Messi being booed. It's you harping on about how poor little Ronaldo was being booed by the bad Madrid fans
No but I'm just saying it wasn't a smooth ride for him either. And Messi has been booed by Argentina fans as well because he hasn't won a wc with Argentina like Maradonna. The expectations on Messi has mostly been greater because he's in general been seen as a greater player
Literally the only reason I have been talking about Ronaldo is because you seem intent on bringing him into the conversation. Shall we leave him out of it from here on? Think you can manage that?Ronaldo wasn't in his comfort zone is prettty
You clearly haven't if you keep harping on about how poor Ronaldo got booed by United and Madrid fans and that means Ronaldo wasn't in his comfort zone
Messi didn't because he was simply better. As Xavi said, if Messi struggled he would have been booed.
Just because you say that Messi was in his comfort zone in Argentina, it doesn't make it true. He was booed by Argentina fans (funny how that doesn't work in your favor now). He wasnt considered one of their own.
I can't find anything to say that Messi was booed by Argentina's fans individually, though I know his history with them is a bit chequered, having left the country young. That said, it doesn't change the fact that he grew up in and around that NT system, so was familiar with it and, yes, comfortable.
I mentioned that once? Not sure if that constitutes harping on in your mind. Also, laughing emojis are no substitute for a solid argument, fyi.He's not the one crying about Messi being booed. It's you harping on about how poor little Ronaldo was being booed by the bad Madrid fans
Literally the only reason I brought him up was a response to your claim that few teams were a player the way Barca were built around him.
Messi was booed by Argentina fans. If you have t watched enough, that'd another thing.
He didn't grow up around the national team. It wasn't built around him. And he was booed.
So no, it wasn't his comfort zone. And he still won them Copa America.
Then why do you use them?
Text speak is no substitute for a proper argument either. Try to formulate one, rather than spam posts with them.
Thats not the only reason...your Ronaldo obsession is pretty apparent across threads. Not sure why, but hey, whatever gives you your kicks my man.
He has played for them since he was a teen. So yes, he grew up with them. I haven't seen any evidence of him being singled out and booed by Argentina fans but interested to see reports if you have a link?
Text speak? Which part of my post are you referring to there? 'FYI? You do know that's not text speak, right?!
Aww poor baby lashing out and calling others obsessed. What's apparent is that it's projection from someone getting emotional because his hero gets criticized.
Again, you keep repeating the same point. He's an Argentina national. Of course he plays for the same country. How does that make it his comfort zone?
Sure it is, but you're derailing the thread again.
Let's stick to discussing Messi. You're free to consider FYI whatever you want to consider it. It's a useless conversation. As is you whining about others using emojis right after you use them.
Ronaldo isn't my hero and I'm not sure what I've said to give you that impression?! He was a great player and is, like Messi, among the best to play the game. Your way of arguing is becoming childish - 'awww poor baby' is not a very adult way to discuss things.
At this point I'm not sure you actually understand the phrase 'comfort zone' at all.
Ermm...your posting history?
Throwing insults are childish. And they certainly are not an adult way to argue. Try not doing that.
Back at you. It's very clear you don't understand the term you're using, which is why you've gotten it as wrong as you have.
Carry on.
Um, no, it's not. Apparently it can be traced back to the 1930 when it was used by journalists. Do you know whether they had mobile phones back then? I could swear not, but I guess you can confirm. A little knowledge can be a great thing, don't you agree?!
I hardly think you of all people can afford to point fingers at posting histories...!
As I said, it's a silly discussion.
The irony.
Because you were wrong?
I'm not really sure how much of a comfort zone you're in when you're expected to be performing like the best ever since you were 21. The pressure on Messi to become the best ever has been unreal. Obviously it's a matter of opinion whether he made it or not. No he didn't do a Napoli like Maradonna, but Maradonna also went there for money and not the challenge and Barca couldn't wait to get rid of him.
I take your point. The expectations are sky high for someone that's among the best to do it. That said, I think that growing up with and being woven into the fabric of a club makes a player as comfortable as someone working in a high pressure job can be.
Not really. Having the right personnel around you doing the donkey work and having the entire team built around you does make it your comfort zone though.
And that wasn't the case with Messi, but it was with the other guy you brought up.
Again, I didn't bring him up. You're the one doing that. Repeatedly.
All you have to do is scroll up to see that you're wrong.
Now, try addressing the topic.
I don't really disagree that it's probably more wholesome to feel home and be at the right club, but it's also why I can't use it as a stick to beat him with. With my own PL bias I would have loved to see prime Messi playing for us but it just never would have happened. He wanted to join City when he was 33, but back then he was on the decline too, but yeah he's certainly shown that he couldn't pull up trees at PSG at 34 and I don't think at 35 he'll do better. If the world cup had been this summer I think he would have retired after it.
I do appreciate that you still find it in you to debate with obvious morons even after all these years.He's 35 FFS
Your point would have some validity had he gone to say Juve and City at age 28 and 30 respectively and struggled. At age 35, shit happens. Besides, he did score a lot in the CL, general play was quite good as usual etc. Unless you focus only on goals or something to prove someone succeeded or failed.
That's the key word. They weren't molly coddling him. He was that good that they got lazy and thought he'd do everything. It's his brilliance and the club's mismanagement that allowed it.
Anyone able to read can see that I've repeatedly asked to leave him out of the discussion. You brought him up first and seem intent on keeping him in the discussion. I'm not interested in it.
I would have loved to have seem him at United. The man is a genius and I'm sure would have been excellent for us in his heyday.
Scrolling up suggests otherwise. But let's drop it and focus on the thread topic because you still don't seem to be able to do that.
Surely we don't all have selective memories? We all remember xavi-iniesta- busquets and messi-neymar- suarez?
Those teams weren't built around Messi. He was merely the most influential player. Which is no knock on him. No players had to modify their game for him.
There was a short period of time where he played as false nine with Henry and Villa on the wings but that was more a tactical thing than building around him(similar to Salah, Mane, Firminho)
Messi has always served the team more than it has served him. It isn't set up to get the best out of Messi. Rather Messi has always changed his game play to what the team needed most, dropping deeper and deeper over the years to help cover up the holes left by xavi and iniesta.
He has shown amazing versatility over the years and has been world class in a number of roles/playstyles. At first glance, it looks like Messi always fits into his team like a glove therefore it must be built around him. But Messi is the one that has to make accommodations for the team more often than not.
Messi is built around the team. And as others have pointed out, it's easy to confuse that with having the team built around him.
Those teams weren't built around Messi. He was merely the most influential player. Which is no knock on him. No players had to modify their game for him.
There was a short period of time where he played as false nine with Henry and Villa on the wings but that was more a tactical thing than building around him(similar to Salah, Mane, Firminho)
Messi has always served the team more than it has served him. It isn't set up to get the best out of Messi. Rather Messi has always changed his game play to what the team needed most, dropping deeper and deeper over the years to help cover up the holes left by xavi and iniesta.
He has shown amazing versatility over the years and has been world class in a number of roles/playstyles. At first glance, it looks like Messi always fits into his team like a glove therefore it must be built around him. But Messi is the one that has to make accommodations for the team more often than not.
Messi is built around the team. And as others have pointed out, it's easy to confuse that with having the team built around him.
Some people don't understand the distinction, as you point out. The idea that the MSN was built around Messi is risible.
Messi more often than not changes his role to accommodate the team.
I'd have said that under Guardiola Messi was given a pretty free role and other players played to accommodate him. Not unexpected, as he's their best player, but I do disagree that he was a selfless figure sacrificing himself for the greater good.
Very true tbh. However both Messi and the other guy were relieved of defensive duties do they could do their thing which meant someone else had to take up that work.
Assists generally weren't included in stats prior to 2004 (Opta) so I wonder what Pele's output would have been.
Another factor is that modern football has become more expansive and goals have increased.
For that reason, I am hesitant to compare across generations but yes, Messi is by far the most productive of this generation.
Not exactly a defender though is he. Does less tracking back / defending that any striker. He waits on half way if the other team attack.
I have one question -
For the majority of Messi’s career - did he play in a team that dominated possession naturally like no other team did?
Yes or No?
You mention the minutes as though being able to play at the top level for 10,000 more minutes is a bad thing.
It isn't, but it provides context. Having the number of matches played and minutes played shows puts the productivity in context.
Beautiful stats, there.
Mods need to threadban all these posters. So the Messi vs Ronaldo thread was locked and the insecure Ronaldo fans have come in here to derail the thread again.
Read up, it's @Ladron de redcafe that keeps bringing him up. Not sure a newbie wading in and telling mods what to do is a great strategy but there we are.
I'd have said guardiola's strict positional play doesn't allow that.
Yes he isn't Mother Theresa and neither was Mother Theresa tbf.
He doesn't do it out of selflessness. He simply has the talent to do it. He knows he'll still be the best player even if he played at lwb. So his biggest priority is the teams victory and it doesn't bother him to play further from goal.
(this only applies to barca. I can only assume he went to psg to retire)