Messi's success at PSG will be decided in the champion's league. Yes he is disapointing so far in Ligue 1, there's no doubt about that, he still doesn't seem fully fit and he has a hard time dealing with the defensive density of the league (aka parking the bus with very physical players). He also have obvious problems with the ball used in ligue 1 since it's, according to players, the most stable used in europe, it just doesn't curve the way the Liga or CL balls do, hence the fact that he hit the posts 8 times since the begining of the season. So far, Messi's brain seems to be half a second faster than his body, which is pretty sad to see. He's still a superb passer though so he can help a lot in the build up (especially since our midfield sucks) but it also means that he starts his plays 40m from the goal, and 34 years old Messi just can't dribble his way to a shot the way he did when he was 25.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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Messi's success at PSG will be decided in the champion's league. Yes he is disapointing so far in Ligue 1, there's no doubt about that, he still doesn't seem fully fit and he has a hard time dealing with the defensive density of the league (aka parking the bus with very physical players). He also have obvious problems with the ball used in ligue 1 since it's, according to players, the most stable used in europe, it just doesn't curve the way the Liga or CL balls do, hence the fact that he hit the posts 8 times since the begining of the season. So far, Messi's brain seems to be half a second faster than his body, which is pretty sad to see. He's still a superb passer though so he can help a lot in the build up (especially since our midfield sucks) but it also means that he starts his plays 40m from the goal, and 34 years old Messi just can't dribble his way to a shot the way he did when he was 25.
Dunno about the ball and all that but the bolded part seems right from the highlights. There rarely seems to be any space to move into or release a player.
I've heard somewhere that although his performances haven't been anywhere near his best he's also hit the post a ridiculous amount of times already this season. He'll be leaving PSG with yet more winners medals and I think in time the move will probably be viewed as a success.
Unless he wins the CL with them which is unlikely given their form this season the rest of the medals are meaningless. He's not playing as a striker but he's had plenty of shots tbf and it's not coming off at all. He still tends to look better the more he gets played into form, but he's not prime Messi. Seems more like a midfielder most of the time as well.
Mate, don’t make it more complicated than it is.
A poster said that Lewandowski was in contention for the BdO but only won Buli.
I stated that in addition he broke a 50 year old record and that is why he was considered for BdO.
You kinda backed my point up when you showed that Lewandowski‘s scoring output rivaled Messi‘s and Ronaldo‘s best seasons.
I am not promoting Lewandowski‘s season. I showed why he was considered for BdO. And frankly, I don’t care what you of all people deem foolish.
Messi had an assist record and was la liga’s top scorer and still didn’t win bdor that season:
https://www.barcablaugranes.com/pla...ts-la-liga-assist-record-ties-european-record
Why? No meaningful trophy.
copa >>>> bundesliga
Messi was 5th in BdO year 2018. A season he was goalscorer and had max assist. What a joke. World cup year for sure, but 5th?
The problem with criticising Messi or Ronaldo is everyone brings up stats from previous seasons. The truth is right now both players are massively on the way down. They aren't the same players they were.
Speaking about a United perspective only.....we were a better team without him. Says it all.
Speaking about a United perspective only.....we were a better team without him. Says it all.
8 games are a small sample.
Bayern will decline once Lewandowski, Neuer and Muller leave, including domestic performances.
No one dominates forever.
Are you kidding me? I wasn’t talking about Messi. I only explained why Lewandowski was considered for the BdO. Hint: 41 goals in 29 games.
Put your „my league is better than your league“ level somewhere else.
never disagreed why Lewa was considered for bdor, that much is obvious. Bundesliga alone is never taken seriously
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Drop the condescending act and more people would take you seriously
You first, stop crying
PL is buying the best bundes prospects, the rest goes to Bayern. Kimmich, Goretzka, Sane, Davies, Koman, Gnabry, Hernandez, Upamecano, they're all pretty young and they'll get other talented players to replace those you mention. They're fine.
Agreed, their past stats are irrelevant; what can they do now? Messi's not been as bad as made out though, I think people just didn't watch him play much recently as far as his activity on the field, he hasn't been a big runner for a long time now. His stats in Ligue 1 are poor, but if you see his performances, you can see someone who's finding his form but hasn't been very lucky. He's hit the post or cross bar I don't know how many times now, and he's dishing out assists and many key passes that really should have been assists if not for poor finishing. He's on something like 15 g/a in 20 games so not GOAT-like, but pretty damn decent return in a dysfunctional team he's trying to find his place in.
The problem is players like him and CR7 are systems on their own, and everybody has to adapt to it, but not everybody can. I think it's harder for CR7 to impact the game as it is for Messi now though, because Messi is a superior playmaker and has better ball retention. CR7 was always a gamble and it was a decision based on ego more than good sense, I still think he can have a good impact, but not under this coach or this team.
Should be playing in the MLS. Even though, I think prime Messi is the best footballer ever, he has regressed so much as he has gotten older.
Just poorly coached this season
Its not just that, his age is indeed showing.
Still has some killer passes, and some good shooting here and there, but his pace is gone, he can't really run past players anymore.
people expected he will miss that penalty before he even took it and being sloppy in possession and giving away too many balls has nothing to do with coaching. Plus his work ethic, he just doesn't seem interested anymore. Even though today, he seem a bit more arsed than usual.He turns 35 in a few months, hardly surprising he isn’t still superhuman.
His time is up. He looks much much easier to dispossess now and looks clunky at times. Free kicks are the best part of his game now.
Also his ego doesn't allow him to stop taking penalties. He's clearly pretty average at taking penalties.
I'm sure WhoScored and SofaSport(or whatever they call it) will give him great ratings for turning up but we all saw the match today.......
Also his ego doesn't allow him to stop taking penalties. He's clearly pretty average at taking penalties.
I'm sure WhoScored and SofaSport(or whatever they call it) will give him great ratings for turning up but we all saw the match today.......
Too slow, like watching him in slow motion. Slows down the play as well. Ball control still great but closer to watching Mata 5 years ago than the GOAT Messi. Mbappé, Verratti and Marquinhos the stars of this PSG team.
Played really well. He is getting back in form in another duty as a passer.
What a bad end of career
Should retire
Should retire
jajajaja
His missed penalty fecked up what was otherwise a decent performance. He still created plenty of decent chances for Mpabbe. Of course still nowhere near prime or peak Messi.
A good performance but that missed penalty covered it. After he missed it he got better and sharper like he kicked into second gear. Made me think that a possible reason for his poor or lazy performances is that he doesnt feel a sense of responsibility at PSG. Hes surrounded by other stars and is no longer the main man of a team and so doesn't feel that burden of putting in a 10/10 performance. Or he is just declining
Very similar to Ronaldo. They both have clearly dropped off, but their starting point was so high that 1) the drop off is noticeable 2) they both are still good players, just not what they once were.
Messi had a decent to good game. It is a bit weird watching him getting dispossed, missing passes and generally not playing with much energy. At the same time, he was affecting the game in part. I don't think either messi or ronaldo are in the running for best player i the world anymore, but both are still in the very good players bracket. Which when considering their age etc is pretty impressive.
Messi had a decent to good game. It is a bit weird watching him getting dispossed, missing passes and generally not playing with much energy. At the same time, he was affecting the game in part. I don't think either messi or ronaldo are in the running for best player i the world anymore, but both are still in the very good players bracket. Which when considering their age etc is pretty impressive.
I dont know why Messi takes pens in the knockouts anymore. After his miss last season IT should have gone to Mpabbe.
It might also just be their consistency that's declining. It's not uncommon for players to go through rough patches of form, even the best of the bunch.
After all, it's been only 6 months or so since we've seen Ballon d'Or worthy performances by Messi at least. I would find it weird if his physical decline happened over such a short period of time and also coincidently at the same time of his move.
So for me, it's too much black and white right now.
Messi hasn't had many, if any Balon d'Or worthy performances for his club in the last few years. You'd be left with the Copa America performances, and there's a reason why nobody used to care about them until a few months ago.
You might be biased as a RM supporter, but I thought he was outstanding from December 2020 onwards until they threw the league against Granada (actually when they had the first chance to take control of the title race). He basically kept them going for half a season... well, maybe it was just me, but I thought he had a cracking season overall in 2020/21 after a sloppy start, though he has obviously declined this year.
Wrong, even before Copa and Euros and even before CL finals, Messi was one of the top favorites along with Lewa for Ballon D'or for the great season he had at Barca being a top goalscorer and no 2. in assists playing as a playmaker. Even RedRonaldo put him as a top candidate before Copa, check the first couple of pages of the below thread and you will see how many people (in May-June before Copa) think Messi would win if you haven't before..
https://www.redcafe.net/threads/ballon-dor-2021-more-interesting-than-usual.462744/
As for nobody caring about Copa, tell that to over 400 million South Americans, they will have a good laugh.
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Disagree. I think there was no player better than him last season. Apply the same standards that are applied to Messi and nobody had a Ballon d'Or worthy season since years. People are spoilt and will realize it in the up coming seasons.
It's kind of because prime Messi and Ronaldo set a high bar. I think Lewandowski definitely was a good contender for 2020 and 2021
When I think of Balon d'Or worthy performances, I think about performances at the highest level of football. I don't think Messi has been there in the last few years.
Messi has not scored or assisted against Real Madrid since the 2017-2018 season. We're talking about a player with 40 goals and assists against RM until 2018, facing a RM team that really hasn't been amazing in recent years. He somehow managed to prolong this negative streak by missing a penalty yesterday. He didn't score or assist against Atletico Madrid last season either, the one season in recent years in which they've been a contender.
His last excellent CL campaign was in 2018-2019, when they reached the semifinals. He didn't do a whole lot in 2019-2020. In 2020-2021, in the awful elimination against PSG, he had an opportunity to really turn the tide by going up in Paris, but missed his penalty, which put an end to all that.
You can't expect a player to win games singlehandedly, especially when the team around him isn't as good. But Messi has largely not been the best player on the pitch in games against top opposition in recent years.
He just doesn't have "it" anymore. As a RM I just haven't had to be scared of this guy in a while.
It is objective fact that the Copa America has not been relevant for the Balon d'Or. This can be seen by looking at the vote tally that Copa America MPVs got in the Balon d'Or voting in those respective years. They barely crack 2% of the vote.
Messi has not scored or assisted against Real Madrid since the 2017-2018 season. We're talking about a player with 40 goals and assists against RM until 2018, facing a RM team that really hasn't been amazing in recent years. He somehow managed to prolong this negative streak by missing a penalty yesterday. He didn't score or assist against Atletico Madrid last season either, the one season in recent years in which they've been a contender.
His last excellent CL campaign was in 2018-2019, when they reached the semifinals. He didn't do a whole lot in 2019-2020. In 2020-2021, in the awful elimination against PSG, he had an opportunity to really turn the tide by going up in Paris, but missed his penalty, which put an end to all that.
You can't expect a player to win games singlehandedly, especially when the team around him isn't as good. But Messi has largely not been the best player on the pitch in games against top opposition in recent years.
He just doesn't have "it" anymore. As a RM I just haven't had to be scared of this guy in a while.
I am South American. I'm not laughing about anything.
It is objective fact that the Copa America has not been relevant for the Balon d'Or. This can be seen by looking at the vote tally that Copa America MPVs got in the Balon d'Or voting in those respective years. They barely crack 2% of the vote.
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I think Lewandowski in those last few years is very similar to Cristiano under Zidane. Incredible goal scoring record, great finishing and movement but also contributing much outside of goals to his team's attack - more so than most world class strikers but less than the absolute best in this regard (like Luis Suarez for Liverpool/Barca, Benzema currently for Madrid or Harry Kane last season for Tottenham). So he definitely was a well deserved contender but the same way I believed Cristiano wasn't contributing enough to be considered better than Messi I think the same about Lewandowski now. After all, Messi's last season was also one of his best considering the circumstances.
Regarding their decline: I believe people have a wrong perception of how this stuff takes place. Sure, there are different types of declines. Some can't cope with a changing metabolism and a decline of strength, acceleration etc. but both players are already past that stage. Then there are players who become injury prone or have outworn their joints, muscles, etc. but that doesn't apply to them either. I think currently they suffer from a slower recovery speed that clearly affects their consistency. Especially if the previous year had a tight schedule, both players tend to have very slow starts into their seasons recently, especially Messi.
Watching Messi play like in the video above you don't get the feeling he's 34 years old, similarly to someone like Modric. The agility is still there, he casually beats players and participates much. I think age is the most obvious explanation for why he doesn't perform to the same standards (especially in terms of output) but not really the most thought through. Similarly for Ronaldo. In the end, both joined new teams and Ronaldo even went through a dastic change of managerial philosophies. All this seems rather premature to me.
Then who was if I may ask? Because I'm pretty sure I can find a hair in the soup for pretty much every player out there including Lewandowski, Mbappe, Neymar, Benzema and de Bruyne let alone underdogs such as Kante or Jorginho.
Moreover I believe what you described can be attributed to Barcelona's decline primarily. I belong to the people who believe that both Messi's as well as Ronaldo's insane statistics and trophy cabinets are products of the super teams they both played in during the best part of their careers. I also don't believe they would've looked so much better than they've been doing the last few years if they were to play in disjointed teams during their primes. Same goes for Lewandowski by the way who would never look as good playing for United or Barcelona. Most of the time what we refer to as the "prime" of a player is really just the period in which his team was most successful with him as the center of attention. Case in point, Ronaldo at Madrid who was quite obviously at his very best when his team won next to nothing while clearly past his best when he bagged 3 of his 5 CL trophies.
Nobody is saying that 2021 was one of Messi's best years in terms of performance, Lewa still being a top candidate despite missing CL football due to injury says it all. But, there was no one better than him in La Liga, one of the top two leagues. He performed well in CL despite missing that penalty. He won Copa Del Rey as finals MVP, all playing for a dysfunctional Barca under an average manager. He won Copa as the MVP leading the tournament in assists and goals, a cup that Argentina was not able to win since 1993.
What else does a South American need to do to win Ballon D'or in a year where no one stood out in CL or Euros?
My point isn't really about who deserves the Balon d'Or. I'm not very interested in relitigating that.
Your original point was that maybe Messi was declining in terms of his consistency. Still capable of amazing performance, just not as frequently.
My response is simply that he's been consistently not great at these type of top level games for at least three years now. It's not a sudden drop.