People are overrating France. They are definitely missing their injured players. Their performance against England, the first real quality team they met at the WC so far, they looked the inferior team throughout.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
- Thread starter Samid
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He should go to Saudi to sign a bumper pay deal bigger than Ronaldos and continue the rivalry over there
The greatest doesn’t lose the two biggest games of his career though. In an era where Ronaldo wasn’t given credit for winning the Euros because he was subbed off it’s hard to ignore Messis failings here if he does lose.
For too many years now in these sort of big games, the big knockout games, Messi has underperformed with his team and have seen some truest shocking results since they last won the CL in 2015. To have another one on top of that, on top of another losing World Cup final on top top of that as well, would be too much.
He’ll still have the rightful claim to greatest player of all time but he’s lose the argument for the all time great. How Pele would be behind him after that wouldn’t be fair
Now we see him with a fantastic Argentina side and he’s still playing stupidly well. There really isn’t an excuse for any underperformance come Sunday and that’s against France. Lose v Morocco and feck knows where it leaves him.
Even if he doesn't win it, he'll be in America imo. If he wins it can see him not even doing that.
Your French/PSG correct? I assume no spit loyalties if that were to be the final in terms of wanting Messi to win? *just checking
That's true.
On the other hand Argentina have had a very favourable draw to the final, the only real test they had was against a weak Netherlands team and just about scraped through.
I think it would be a good even game, if France get through that is.
Just when you could be forgiven for thinking he is done at the highest level after the previous season, the he goes on to have the season he is having now with him rocking it at the WC. He never ceases to amaze me. It's a privilege to have witnessed his career from the beginning.
It doesn’t really matter for me it’s still an all round great tournament performance, a lot of praise we give Maradona is partly due to his 1990 World Cup where he didn’t end up winning it.
Ronaldo couldn’t dream of having the same performance in his prime he just doesn’t have the same all roundness to shine in different phases of play, to be a playmaking genius and still score goals it’s one or the other for him and he’s great performances are really predicated on his goalscoring.
The closest tournament I’ve seen to him being an all round threat is 2004.
Split loyalty? I mean I speak French as my go to language(but I'm not French) but I'm not necessarily supporting France. I actually do like all 3 teams left in the competition and wouldn't mind seeing any of them win it, although I feel like there is more of romantic and bigger story if either of Argentina or Morocco were to win.
I think PSG are going to win the CL this year, but I'd like to see him go back to Barca on a free or play a playmaking role for 2 more years before moving to the MLS.
Messi could easily play in a top league until 38, but be a great playmaker, dribbler and still get 15-20 a season.
The scariest thing about Messi today is he isn’t close to his peak. At his peak the first time he destroyed Gvardiol he would have been gone, but he’s lost some of his pace so he had to destroy him twice more
Whole thing started in a similar position to this one:
Its still a game with a pitch with 22 players on it. What if Messi is the best player on the pitch and France wins? It doesnt change reality that this isnt tennis or boxing. There not much Messi can do to stop Mbappe destroying his marker. And vice versa.
That assist for the third goal tonight will be played for decades to come when people bring up the goat discussion. 36 years old at his last World Cup in the semi final and he does that?
We are witnessing greatness
We are witnessing greatness
Rising tides carry all boats.
Football is a team game. GOAT tournaments and GOAT performances almost always fall on the back of excellent team performances. They make it possible for individual players to have moments in the first instance.
Both with Argentina in '86 and with Argentina in '22, concessions must be made that both Maradona and Messi had the right ingredients around them, be it character, talent, or work-ethic, to enable them to achieve what they have. The margins are so fine in World Cups, and you need a team to put you in a position to make an impact.
Football is a team game. GOAT tournaments and GOAT performances almost always fall on the back of excellent team performances. They make it possible for individual players to have moments in the first instance.
Both with Argentina in '86 and with Argentina in '22, concessions must be made that both Maradona and Messi had the right ingredients around them, be it character, talent, or work-ethic, to enable them to achieve what they have. The margins are so fine in World Cups, and you need a team to put you in a position to make an impact.
Aargh apologies, bud. You are a PSG fan, right? Possibly why i thought you're French and would be supporting France.
Netherlands had 20 matches without losing. Croatia good results against football superpowers. Weak draw?
It won't.
They'll love him even more but he'll always be behind Maradona. Not that Messi would take offense with that. Aside from his undeniable charisma, Diego was one of them, someone very relatable with all the good and the bad sides and had a connection with his people Messi simply doesn't have and never will. He also played his first professional years in Argentina. More importantly you absolutely have to put things in perspective, as to when Maradona did it. You can say the same for Napoli.
That's something that goes beyond mere stats.
It's hard to agree with this considering football isn't an individual sport and he alone can't win the final.
France defense is a bit of a shamble. Their display against England was atrocious. While Argentina midfield is mediocre, they have a solid defense and Messi in attack will always give them that ex factor and dangerous to play, especially if your defense is shaky which is what France have.
This is a great post. Exactly what every fan should understand and unfortunately many don't. Magic or not you need support. Still remember 1986 final when Germany tied final at 2 and were starting to dominate towards the end. And then - boom and Burruchaga goes one on one and scores. I think Maradona assisted. But what if he missed?
Argentina won final 3-2. Maradona was magnificent but it required all players to contribute in the final.
No point.
There are some people that think it's Messi's fault Barcelona lost to Liverpool....
He could score a hattrick in the final and Otamendi could score 4 own goals and they'd still say he's not better than a player who hasn't ever played in a world cup final.
How many were penalties?
This dependancy on him is exagerrated. They have a well balanced strong team and he is adding quality where it's required.
I mean, it would leave him in the exact same spot as losing to France, no? You seem fairly negative towards Messi tbh. Oh well.
Despite how good he's been I don't think he can replicate this at club level anymore, not at this consistency anyway.
Messi is doing great as he's fired up and motivated to win a world cup over 7 games. It's a completely different kettle of fish playing club football for another 3 seasons playing upto 100 games. I don't think he physically or mentally can handle it anymore, which is fair enough he has absolutely nothing left to prove at club level. I don't think he's been motivated at PSG for a while.
yep, some of the funniest shit you will read. "he bottled it or he didn't show up" ffs.Damnit! to the confusing posters thread!
More to the point, you’re not seriously arguing that the margin is potentially one 90 minute football match? Because that would be mental.
Yeah its why i dont agree with the almost "legacy is tied to a 1 off knockout match narrative", as many seem to do. Just look at what he's done up to now....but apparently 1 match is going to change everything.
Pretty sure that's exactly what he is arguing
It won't change the rediculous amount of things he's done in the past but winning it will definitely enhance it on multiple levels. Fine margins and all that but it's what you need to stick out on an all time level and it should be that hard.
Surprised by some on here being convinced Argentina would have no chance against France. France beat England but thought England were even better in that game despite losing in the end.
They are a very functional and well drilled team but Messi is the catalyst
They wouldn’t be in the final without him
Fair enough. I can see where youre coming from. Lets hope di Maria has one last worldie in him. Roll on Sunday!
Yeah, most of the team isn't remarkable individually, but they're working their asses off around Messi, with some players stepping up in the right moments. Just what's needed at this stage of Messi's career.
Even if they don't win the final, I have them down as one of the memorable World Cup teams I've seen in my time.
I think England, with their pace and power would have caused Argentina problems as well.
Endrick, the little kid supposed to be the next big talent, praised Messi and then he had to delete his tweet. How shit of a business football has become.
I think it's more about failing to produce a single goal or assist that would've knocked out Liverpool in the 2nd leg. Not his fault they shit the bed obviously, but these are the moments you expect players of his caliber to perform.
The only way he might get a reprieve in the final is if he plays very well and his team lose to defensive mistakes. It'd be very unlucky but so far this Argentina dont look like bottlers, at all
This would be true if it was an individual sport. But it isn't it's a team sport. There's only so much one out of 11 players can do. If they come up against a firing France on Sunday Argentina is probably gonna lose that. And that will not be because Messi choked, but because France is a better football team. Messi has been world class this tournament whether he wins the title come Sunday or not, and that is only gonna add to his GOAT-status.
Also, serious question here: if Messi picked up the ball with his hand on Sunday and threw into the goal and somehow the ref and VAR managed to miss, and that is the winning goal - would he suddenly be the greatest of all time then?