Pretty much. Given the different conditions of different eras, I don’t have a big problem with a debate that involves Pele/Maradona, but since the day Messi started his career it’s only been one man for this century.
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Pretty much. Given the different conditions of different eras, I don’t have a big problem with a debate that involves Pele/Maradona, but since the day Messi started his career it’s only been one man for this century.
Agree with this.
Messi has scored or assisted in about 9 out of their 13 goals
Does he get the assist for Alvarez's 1st goal? 
Tonight might be the night Argentina shifts ever so slightly toward Leo. They won't win against France though so it'll come right back, but I hope they enjoy it.
Becoming a football nerd over the years I've watched a lot of Maradona, Cruyff's, Zico's etc games and it literally shocked me on the amount of bad tackles they had to endure and like you said the defenders rarely got yellows for them. In the 80s Messi gets taken out by Gvardiol way earlier.
No. The ball was touched twice by Croatian players before it was scoredDoes he get the assist for Alvarez's 1st goal?
They can defo win vs France. There is no one that can stop him in the middle
I didn't expect such a World Cup at his age. Chapeau
Mous spitting facts!
It’s not like it was great defending when Maradona scored against England though or against Belgium. And Messi has got hacked down plenty in big games, Ramos would often kick him 3-4 times a game for example but he’d persevere.
Also refereeing in this tournament/past year has been as lenient as it has been probably since that era. Let it flow initiative.
The argument for Maradona being the greatest has always mainly been 'Maradona dragged his country to win the World Cup'. Yet you are using the era argument because the World Cup argument may be gone soon.
Brazilian Ronaldo still holds a special place in my heart as a young kid starting to watch football and bring amazes at how good he was. If it weren't for injuries who knows what career he would have had.
Messi though is the best I've seen, not going into a debate of all time greatest since haven't seen Maradona etc play live and comparing different eras is stupid for me.
Messi though is the best I've seen, not going into a debate of all time greatest since haven't seen Maradona etc play live and comparing different eras is stupid for me.
It all seems to be coming together for them and Messi to win it in the final. Messi's form is going from strength to strength and they've found the right attack partner for him in Alvarez finally.
More like a credit to his PR team and the media who essentially boiled down the comparison between them to goals in order to make it close. Once the discourse became about goals, people couldn't see anything beyond goal scoring and reality has always been Messi has simply been a far better footballer and if the debate was approached holistically then it was never going to be a debate because outside of goals, like everybody else Ronaldo couldn't actually compete with Messi as a footballer.
and in the 80s Messi isnt constantly marked by multiple players and has much more time and space to do his thing.
also disagree about tackling, its much "easier" to play against someone that wants to kick you then it is to someone that will track you back and put you under pressure once you get past him. Biggest advantage Messi has is the quality of the pitches but players from previous era also had some advantages.
anyways, not a time for debate its time to enjoy the genius of the little man. Please dont go to fecking MLS
He can’t be called the greatest if he loses 2 World Cup finals. It’s all or nothing for his optimum legacy this Sunday
This Argentina probably has more about it than other side in the tournament. They won the Copa against Brazil in the final so they can beat France too.
It will be hard for either team. As Argentina just have that grit needed to beat anyone and obviously the great man is unplayable half the time. They have as good a shot as they will ever have. 3-0 against Croatia is pretty ominous. Not many sides could have done that.
It will be hard for either team. As Argentina just have that grit needed to beat anyone and obviously the great man is unplayable half the time. They have as good a shot as they will ever have. 3-0 against Croatia is pretty ominous. Not many sides could have done that.
If HE loses? It's a team game mate, a lot will come down to his team mates as much as it is on Messi.
No the argument for Maradona is that he was a genius footballer who played for Argentina ever since he was 16, people talk of the 86 World Cup but he was great in 1990 and started the 94 World Cup well too.
When it comes t accomplishments and records the likes of Pele had better CV but Maradona sheer genius allowed him to be compared to the likes of Pele, his career is bigger than just the World Cup lest we forget he also took a Napoli side to two Serie A titles something they haven’t done before or since.
He's magic, and that kinda hurts as an United fan
Not gonna lie I'll be a bit sad when he finally calls it a day, and I doubt I'll get to see someone equaling his greatness ever again.
Not gonna lie I'll be a bit sad when he finally calls it a day, and I doubt I'll get to see someone equaling his greatness ever again.
You also have a ticking, nervous timebomb in Upamecano who is a potential penalty giver at any moment with his overzealousness in the tackle, especially going through the back of players.
Messi should be all over him and his side of the defense.
Because….margins & team sport.
It's going to be so anti-climatic when he retires. Mbappe can't hold a candle. Think we've got 10-15 years in no man's land. Probably a bit like mid nineties to mid 2000s, but without a Ronaldo.
Football's a team sport there mate.
Sadly I think so. Unless Morocco pulls a miracle, I don’t think Argentina has it in them to contain Mbappe/France.
Great run carrying an Argentina team that’s weaker than it was at their last World Cup finals appearance. I still think beating France is a tall order for them.
As you know in some instances it's not even 'tackling' it's literal violenceand in the 80s Messi isnt constantly marked by multiple players and has much more time and space to do his thing.
also disagree about tackling, its much "easier" to play against someone that wants to kick you then it is to someone that will track you back and put you under pressure once you get past him. Biggest advantage Messi has is the quality of the pitches but players from previous era also had some advantages.
anyways, not a time for debate its time to enjoy the genius of the little man. Please dont go to fecking MLS
, not only physical but mental toll is a lot more. But yeah not the time for debate right now.He’s just marvellous.
How he’s reshaped his game and kept relevant to the point of being (thus far) the best player of the tournament is incredible.
He’s magical. The greatest imo.
But, they won’t beat France.
How he’s reshaped his game and kept relevant to the point of being (thus far) the best player of the tournament is incredible.
He’s magical. The greatest imo.
But, they won’t beat France.
It's absolutely not weaker. Thus the fact it can actually get to 2 goals and open up Messi more. A 27 year old Messi in this team? He'd be on 8 goals and 5 assists, at least.
Yes, they crumble a little, but they haven't actually crumbled, better mentality too.
Works both ways, they win you will hear everyone claim he carried them, they lose it be he can't carry em.
At the moment Ronaldo is having a brutal time this last load of months. He must be crying as t moment
and in the 80s Messi isnt constantly marked by multiple players and has much more time and space to do his thing.
also disagree about tackling, its much "easier" to play against someone that wants to kick you then it is to someone that will track you back and put you under pressure once you get past him. Biggest advantage Messi has is the quality of the pitches but players from previous era also had some advantages.
anyways, not a time for debate its time to enjoy the genius of the little man. Please dont go to fecking MLS
Its not easier Marco Van Bastens career was cut short at 29 because defenders were literally assaulting him, and Maradona dribbled far more than he did.
Because it all comes down to winning. People didn't start following Manchester United just for the pretty football.
I never saw Pele in his prime or Di Stefano, I saw bits of Pele as his career wound down and Cruijff, Platini, Maradona and Ronaldo, but I have never seen a player score and assist with such brutal and ruthless efficiency. By far the best player of this era.
On the other side I think Giroud will have some fun in the air.
No penalty but the stars are aligned for Argentina. England never has this luck.
I think Nkunku and Benzema are indeed great misses but I honestly think Pogba/Kante would have been too much of the same. I think Tchouameni has added some fresh blood to this French XI.
You are aware Maradona took Argentina to two World Cup finals? What are you even talking about on that front? And the 'argument' for Maradona is that he performed virtual miracles for the greatly unfancied in Napoli and Argentina. His club feats are equally phenomenal and never reduced to 'oh he won so few trophies' in an era where talent was not densely concentrated into a handful of superteams per league. The only teams remotely capable of true trophy hauls in 80's serie A were Juventus and AC Milan, you either know this already, or, you're not qualified to use the argument you're using which, coincidentally, omits this small tidbit of vital information.
Well I mean he has done literally everything he can to get them to the final... If he puts on a performance in the final and they still lose, that shouldn't really reflect his entire career.