Why? He has been incredible for PSG this season in terms of goals and assists. Above both Mbappe and Neymar statwise.
Lionel Messi | PSG Watch
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Why? He has been incredible for PSG this season in terms of goals and assists. Above both Mbappe and Neymar statwise.
Yep
Let's we get our shit back together again then.
Need to score them
True and France should also be absolutely roasting them down both flanks, but Messi has a lot of room to work against that midfield and a very nervous CB. Should be an interesting contest (if it happens).
yeah but we're not talking about following a team here, we're talking about an individual. So surely your analogy is flawed?
Na, a lot of the mystique legendary players possess is doing it in the biggest of stages. There’s nuance though since Messi playing well means Argentina wins. If Argentina don’t win then Messi wouldn’t have played well imo.
You can’t come out on the losing side of the biggest game in all of sports..twice.. not make your mark and be called the greatest. Especially when the argument against Messi being criticised for not guiding his side to a World Cup was the quality of his teammates. Reaching two finals says different.
Now if he has a worldie and loses then fair enough but that’s not likely to happen.
Say they face France and Mbappe owns it. That’s incredible for his legacy and gives him a real foot hold to challenge GOAT status by the time he retires. It works both way, it’s rarified air we’re seeing right now
He's having a brilliant world cup, but defo not a case of carrying etc, and shouldn't be if they lose the final either. Argentina team outside of that first game play very well, plenty of aggression, solid enough at the back and plenty of players have stepped up for them since then.
Icing would be Messi winning it
We're talking about history, legacy, so its the same for both
Right now, I rate Messi as a goat player. But I still think Maradona 86 still performed better than Messi this year.
Look at The defenders and midfielders that got embarrassed by Diego at WC1966...... Vierchowod, De Napoli, Forster, Scirea, Matthaus, Gerets, Butcher, Reed, Acevedo, Gutierrez, Bossio, Shilton, Eder.... more and more.
The Netherlands pretty much set the template on how to score against them, and Giroud is a lot better than Weghorst and you have Griezmann on the crosses.
But also agree that both Upamecano and Theo are really rash and Messi can have some fun against them.
However, this talk is a bit premature as France have to get through a solid Morocco team who will have the whole stadium rooting for them.
Well he is clearly doing it at the moment and hopefully he has another incredible performance on Sunday
How many shots did great players of the past need to play well at a World Cup final never mind the greatest player of all time in Messi?
You either step up or you don’t. It’s not like we aren’t seeing him dominate the World Cup as we speak so it’s not exactly down to random chances here
hes got a lot more done in terms of both history and legacy outside of a "1 off match" IMO. But i hear where youre coming from. I just dont agree with it.
The scariest thing about Messi today is he isn’t close to his peak. At his peak the first time he destroyed Gvardiol he would have been gone, but he’s lost some of his pace so he had to destroy him twice more 
I mean, use 2014 as an example. Higuain scores, messi assist (iirc?) and his legacy is cemented. It's margins. So you can dominate every single match up to the final and say....di Maria scores the winner and Messi does nothing. Is his legacy cemented because they won and someone else stepped up (for 1 match in a tournament?)
And yet Argentina have already lost to Saudi Arabia. So they can obviously lose to France. Even with Messi having as good a tournament as he’s had so far. That’s football.
Anything can happen in a one off game. As I've said before I think Morocco can beat France, it's not a given.
France will have all of Portugal and Sporting Lisbon and some RedCafe weirdos on their side tomorrow.
And the team were criticised for their performance?
The man is 35 years old.
Cut the shit. Seriously. If Argentina don't win this final it does nothing to diminish his status in the game. Nothing. No other player in history, including Maradona, bears the weight of dragging Argentina to a WC win with an all-time classic tournament performance at the age of 35. No one.
Maradona was a shadow of his '86 self at 34 years of age, yet, apparently Messi needs to do not only what Maradona did during his peak, but also what Maradona didn't do after his peak.
Just enjoy that Messi is giving the tournament of a lifetime at an age when every other historically great player has faded.
Cut the shit. Seriously. If Argentina don't win this final it does nothing to diminish his status in the game. Nothing. No other player in history, including Maradona, bears the weight of dragging Argentina to a WC win with an all-time classic tournament performance at the age of 35. No one.
Maradona was a shadow of his '86 self at 34 years of age, yet, apparently Messi needs to do not only what Maradona did during his peak, but also what Maradona didn't do after his peak.
Just enjoy that Messi is giving the tournament of a lifetime at an age when every other historically great player has faded.
So basically you are saying whether a player can be considered the greatest or not comes down to a single match. Never mind the fact he's played in over 1000 and has scored nearly 800 goals and won countless trophies. But it all rests on one match, in a team sport where there are 10 other players who need to perform too. Nah, don't think so
difference was substantial
Kane’s missed penalty was as clear cut as a pen can be yet they needed var
Messi’s penalty was very light and it was given immediatelly
Furthermore there is a difference between needing to score a first half penalty at 0-0 or needing to score an equalizer 5 min from time
Well said.
How wide do you think the margins are when discussing literally the greatest players of all time?
Zidane? I guess he had a much better team though.
No.
He could retire right now and still be the greatest. If they win it on Sunday that will be the cherry on top of the best career in football history. If they don't, he still has had the best career and been the best player I've ever seen. I hope they do win because then there will be no more arguments to be had even from the most anti-Messi people. It simply won't be a discussion anymore.
Not for the Argentinians.
Debatable but even if they did, they would find some way to bottle it.
Tbf, i don't think anyone ever will.
He's been incredible.
I didn't see this kind of WC coming from him.
He's finally done what he always before came short in doing at the WC. Having iconic moments/performances in the KO stages.
He has enhanced his legacy, but he could score a hat-trick in the final and an Argentina loss would still cause the others to come out to criticize him for not doing more.
A tremendous WC from him.
I didn't see this kind of WC coming from him.
He's finally done what he always before came short in doing at the WC. Having iconic moments/performances in the KO stages.
He has enhanced his legacy, but he could score a hat-trick in the final and an Argentina loss would still cause the others to come out to criticize him for not doing more.
A tremendous WC from him.
That will change if they win on Sunday I think though Maradona will always be a god to them.
It will always be a discussion because there is a man who debuted at a World Cup at 17 and scored 5 goals in his first World Cup, went onto win another one at 30 and in between that time was embarrassing any defender he faced whether European or South American, a true number 10 who could score and assist and playmake shoot with both feet dribble and was ace in the air.
As long as there is Pele there will always be a debate for me and a lot of people, Messi is right up there though and personally would have him number 1 but there is little he can do to erase what others who have done before him.
This 100%
You're the prime example of why someone shouldn't venture in unknown territories without real knowledge.
This 100%
If Messi wins the world cup, I reckon he retires after this season.
Semi retirement to USA no doubt.