Lionel Messi - Performances
- Thread starter Rado_N
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He wouldn't have Suarez and Gomes laying down all the goals for him, in Scotland, that's for sure, pal!
That just isn't true. The only thing Suarez does better than Neymar is scoring goals (and he plays as striker rather than winger anyway). Neymar is better at almost everything else. Dribbling, passing, playmaking, vision, etc...
Perhaps it isn't as clear cut right now, but Neymar has a much higher ceiling than Suarez.
Messi, Suarez & then Neymar...for now. At times, Neymar moves ahead of Luis but it's always between who is #2 - Suarez is just more consistent overall & a constant threat. Neymar has amazing performances but more sporadically
Neymar will realize his full potential once he can put it together more consistently. He is only 25 but by the time Leo was 20 he was already considered the best in the world
Yep sounds rubbish, we will do you lot a favour and take him off your hands
Imo, for one to really see how important Neymar is to Barcelona's current game, you need to look at one thing mostly. How often Barca players pass the ball to Neymar in neutral positions in order for him to do something that would turn the neutral position (even a disadvantageous position at times) into a position of superiority that has multiple follow-up options. Barcelona builds more on Neymar than on Messi atm.
I think his finishing has took a dive this season also because his role changed. We used to build more on Alvessi in the right, and have Neymar do more runs in the box in 2014-16, like a classic winger who cuts inside to score does. This season, there is no Alvessi, so basically Neymar has much increased time on the ball, at the cost of him becoming more of a creative outlet than a high-scoring winger. He is such a player that can do both to very high degree, and it's up to the role in which the managers use him that dictates whether he is a creator first and scorer second, or the other way around.
The most used pass at Barca atm is LB to Neymar. Not LB to LW, because if Turan plays, that pass is not as used. So, Neymar's presence changes the way the team passes to a very high degree. Why? Because that channel is almost always open (in general teams don't block the sides, but rather block the center and allow the wingers to be played from the LB/RB positions), and it is he belief of the current manager that when you can pass the ball to Neymar you need to do that. It's part of what's wrong at the club, that the manager consistently uses some players' extraordinary quality as an easy escape from actually trying to build strong attacks through midfield play, i.e. having a sustainable way to create superiority through passing, rather than through individual ability. During 2011-12, the midfield would rarely realease the ball to the wingers if there wasn't some sort of positional advantage that was won with that move. Now that happens often, because Neymar has the ability to turn neutral situations into favourable sitations purely on his own.
So, the team actually plays off Neymar because he's so great. That makes him better than Suarez imo. You don't see the team playing off Suarez very often, that is going with direct balls for him to win. Suarez is used very much like a classic no9 imo.
I think his finishing has took a dive this season also because his role changed. We used to build more on Alvessi in the right, and have Neymar do more runs in the box in 2014-16, like a classic winger who cuts inside to score does. This season, there is no Alvessi, so basically Neymar has much increased time on the ball, at the cost of him becoming more of a creative outlet than a high-scoring winger. He is such a player that can do both to very high degree, and it's up to the role in which the managers use him that dictates whether he is a creator first and scorer second, or the other way around.
The most used pass at Barca atm is LB to Neymar. Not LB to LW, because if Turan plays, that pass is not as used. So, Neymar's presence changes the way the team passes to a very high degree. Why? Because that channel is almost always open (in general teams don't block the sides, but rather block the center and allow the wingers to be played from the LB/RB positions), and it is he belief of the current manager that when you can pass the ball to Neymar you need to do that. It's part of what's wrong at the club, that the manager consistently uses some players' extraordinary quality as an easy escape from actually trying to build strong attacks through midfield play, i.e. having a sustainable way to create superiority through passing, rather than through individual ability. During 2011-12, the midfield would rarely realease the ball to the wingers if there wasn't some sort of positional advantage that was won with that move. Now that happens often, because Neymar has the ability to turn neutral situations into favourable sitations purely on his own.
So, the team actually plays off Neymar because he's so great. That makes him better than Suarez imo. You don't see the team playing off Suarez very often, that is going with direct balls for him to win. Suarez is used very much like a classic no9 imo.
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@serghei Definitely. That's understandable considering Barcelona lack a legitimate replacement to Alves on the right + Neymar is a fantastic dribbler, coupled with Alba on the left
I envision Neymar will play the Messi role and share the attacking midfield with Messi. Those months Leo was injured and Neymar assumed that role gave an indication of how great he can be and the role he can assume at Barcelona
I envision Neymar will play the Messi role and share the attacking midfield with Messi. Those months Leo was injured and Neymar assumed that role gave an indication of how great he can be and the role he can assume at Barcelona
Yea, the way I see it, the team has been able to replace Xavi's influence, albeit with a change in style, by using Rakitic's energy (coupled with his defensive input) and by allowing Alves to be more dinamic going forward. But once Alves was gone too, there is nothing dinamic about the right side, so Messi playing there would consistently lead to a situation where he receives the ball near the sideline with several opponents next to him. And I really like Messi, but in a situation like that, Neymar is better atm simply because he is younger.
Messi has evolved in some areas and declined in others comparing with 2009 for example. The area where he declined is his speed in the first 3-5m. He is less explosive than it once was, and is now more like Iniesta, albeit better and everthing offensively, and worse at defending and moving off the ball. Now he's tricking his opponents, and is less surpassing them through flat out speed like he did in his younger days. Of course there are flashes where he looks like prime Messi in this regard, but in the past he used to outrun his markers with ease and do it more frequently. Not the case anymore. With Neymar it's different. Neymar is looking to be in his physical prime and his dribbling is more based on speed now and quick reactions, so he can really beat his opponents by both tricking them with superb pieces of skill, but also by outrunning them. This aspect is what makes Neymar hard to defend against and also the main thing that would make him shine in the Premier League with ease. He is so quick and technicall that you just can't contain him.
I can't undertand how people can't see that, for example these games vs PSG Messi was suposed to play in the middle and create gravity effect so that Neymar & Rafinha could have space. Everyone says that Messi underperformed but that isn't true. He kept a roll for the team, which is to attract midfielders and leave ¨Neymar one on one with the RB, and Rafinha with the LB. That was the only way for Barca to generate situations in that game.
Having a positional role is one thing and what you do on the ball is another thing. In the first leg everything he did on the ball was below poor. Its like talking about Rooneys silent domination all over again.
1st leg against PSG, the entire team was off - what that was down to no one is sure but Lucho alluded to mitigating factors that the press was not privy to. Could be a smokescreen but it was a very odd performance, never seen them so unprepared and incapable of competing
He didn't do a good job of it. Dropped deep to get on the ball, lost it, and often didn't bother to make any effort to recover it as Barcelona got murdered on the transition.
I won't be against that. He was relly poor. But in both games he didn't play to be the main star. It was clear as day that Enrique played him to keep Neymar and Rafinha one on one, and Messi accepted it. In part because Neymar's ability is on point, and in part because Messi can't do the impossible anymore, and the midfield capability has drecreased too.
The change from 2011 to 2017 is that Messi is more of a total footballer now. He can play almost everywhere. And now that it doesn't depend entirely on him to change the games phisically, and the midfield needs him more without Xavi and Iniesta, he is filling a lot of gaps. The Supercup game vs Sevilla is a clear example of a Messi playing everywhere and creating even from midfield.
I'm not talking about what he did with the ball (which was poor). I'm saying that his positional game in both games had an objetive. Messi is a player that doesn't even need to touch the ball to make an impact on the other team. He attracts players just by being there.
You're not only saying that.
He did underperform. He was poor in the first game, and nothing special in the second one. You can chalk it down to his tactical role if you wish, but the reality is that the best player in the world was average over those two legs.
I agree. But what he did off the ball was a fatal flaw in Barcelona's gameplan that night.
Yeah no question he is a great player, and that Enrique used him well tactically but he was still poor, after about ten years of consistently good performances in the knockout stages he earned a night off.
He wasn't mean to be something special. The plan was made for Neymar to stand out. If don't wanna see that it's ok.
Cool story man.
In the 2nd game Messi being central attracted 3/4 players on him at all times, this allowed Neymar to get more space. Apart from that though he wasn't his usual glittering self.
Revisionism at its finest. Ok.
ok thenMessi attracts opponents all the time. With this reasoning, he can never have a poor game because he is Messi and teams always give him more attention.
I'm not sure I buy this messi being effective just because he attracts so much attention which frees up other players. That's poor strategy from the opposition, especially if he's having an off day.
On the other hand, hounding him whenever he's involved is probably a prerequisite for a Messi off-day. Start guarding him less closely and he might instantly punish you even on one of his not-so-great days.
More than a decade waiting for an 'off day'
He's had plenty in that time. It's just an off day for him is the same as a good performance for most other players.
I think im not expressing myself well enough. I just pretended to say that if someone expected Messi to take the main roll offensively, that's not what Enrique had in mind.
he was poor in the first leg. We all agree on that.
Banned for 4 games for abusing the linesman and the linesman mother.
So humble.
So humble.
Is that what he said when he ranted? I haven't read specifics of what it was claimed he said but at any rate very undisciplined and disrespectful. Got to call it as no matter who he is as a player he seems to act up with the national team. Whether its threatening to retire then unretire later, or this issue seems like he gets frustrated with the international setup and it brings out his worst side.
I don't think messi has ever came across as a nice guy on the pitch and he's too private off it (save for his tax case)
Maybe people are confusing his honesty on the pitch (I.e. He never really dives) with his personality which from what I can see, he's actually got a bit of a temper and always has had. Wasn't he sent off on his international debut? You also very rarely see him joke with oppo players, normally talks with his hands over his face and his committees his fair share of cynical fouls. Don't see where the nice guy portrayal really comes from.
Maybe people are confusing his honesty on the pitch (I.e. He never really dives) with his personality which from what I can see, he's actually got a bit of a temper and always has had. Wasn't he sent off on his international debut? You also very rarely see him joke with oppo players, normally talks with his hands over his face and his committees his fair share of cynical fouls. Don't see where the nice guy portrayal really comes from.
WhoaJustified ban.
Really? Sounds tame.
I disagree. World football needs to really toughen up with the on & off-field disrespect shown towards officials, & stuff like this needs to disappear from the game entirely.
I suggest you watch Rugby instead. We need something to differentiate ourselves from the classy folk. Why can't the ref say anything back? Give as good as you get.
The ban is ridiculous. There was nothing informed by the referees nor linemen.
From now on I hope there's a camera focusing on each player during the whole thing, and even in the dressing rooms. I hope FIFA creates a special room with hundeds of employees working on these TV images. And it's not only about the referees being insulted, it goes for their teammates, and rivals too, as the rule goes.
From now on I hope there's a camera focusing on each player during the whole thing, and even in the dressing rooms. I hope FIFA creates a special room with hundeds of employees working on these TV images. And it's not only about the referees being insulted, it goes for their teammates, and rivals too, as the rule goes.